May 3, 2005, 07:57 PM | #1 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 1, 2004
Location: houston, tx
Posts: 179
|
Advice on chronograph
I have been reloading for a while now and would am looking to perfect my work. Question: Do you guys use a chronograph to check consistancy and accuracy as compared to the published values? Any advice on what model to get and what to look for highly desired from a guy still learning. Not sure it matters but I reload mostly for .45acp, .308 and 357.
On a different note, this forum has certainly helped a lot in the past when I had cimp problems and any other beginner issue I can think of. Thanks to all how post and support this forum! |
May 3, 2005, 08:59 PM | #2 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 25, 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,545
|
From a fellow Houstonian,
IMO the best chronograph is the Oehler 35P. It prints out velocity for each round so you don't have to take time out. For each string of shots it prints the highest velocity, lowest velocity, extreme spread of velocity, median velocity, and standard deviation. The unit uses three screens and measures each bullet velocity twice. If these measurements differ, the chronograph flags the measured velocity so you will know that round's velocity may have encountered a problem in measurement. Simply stated, I think the Oehler 35P is great! Have been extremely pleased with mine. Besides all that, the Oehler is made right here in Texas. Good shooting and be safe. LB ps: There are cheaper chronographs available and some folks are happy with them but I have never regretted buying the Oehler. |
May 3, 2005, 09:03 PM | #3 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 19, 2004
Location: Wabash, IN
Posts: 227
|
I reloaded for about 2 years before I broke down and bought a Chrony Beta Master last year. I too load .38, .357, .308, & .45 (.32ACP too). I can't say that the Chrony has made a major difference with my pistol loads, but I've tried a couple different powders since getting the chrony and that has decreased the time taken for load work ups somewhat. If anything, it has confirmed my suspicsions on some loads and even surprised me in a couple cases.
With my rifles, I'm finding it very useful right now. Since I shoot a M1A, matching my loads to Mil-Spec velocities helps a bunch to dial in a load, and the Chrony has done me good in that category. Heck, I've even found it useful with my muzzleloader loads too. Chrony's aren't an absolute GOTTA have item for reloading............... but they are pretty neat toys - especially for info junkies like me. (Too Funny I'm originally from Houston also)
__________________
"Every moving thing that liveth, I give unto you as meat" (Gen 9:3) Aim small.........miss small. Trust God..........but keep your powder dry! |
May 3, 2005, 09:32 PM | #4 |
Member
Join Date: December 18, 2004
Location: Nevada
Posts: 93
|
Here is what my chorno has done for me.
45 Colt 784 fps= very little lead in barrel 941 fps= acceptable lead in barrel 1183 fps= 1 weeks work to remove lead in barrel 30-06 same load 40 degrees = works great 115 degrees = primers backing out 357 125 grain bullet JSP 1498 fps = nice penetration, excellant expansion 948 fps= penatration good, not much expansion Most cartridge loads 10% less speed than most published loading manuals Then once when I shot my chrony, my family had alot of fun teasing me about it. Thats what my chrony has done for me. |
May 3, 2005, 09:55 PM | #5 |
Junior Member
Join Date: September 10, 2004
Posts: 10
|
Ohler is basically the best for a personal use chrono(if you can aford it). I personally use the beta master with the remote readout. Most likely the best $135 I spent. You will find that what "the book" says should be going on, isn't usually what is going on. And knowing your actual velocity is a huge help from every angle of bullet preformance you can think of.
As my user name implies I load 'em fast and hot, but not stupid. If you do this I personally think mapping your loads with a chrono is mandatory.
__________________
Windage and elevation Mrs. Langdon, windage and elevation. Ain't we gona bury them? Why? Buzzards gotta eat, same as worms. NRA certified pistol instructor Last edited by 44 magnum; May 4, 2005 at 10:02 PM. |
May 3, 2005, 10:46 PM | #6 |
Junior member
Join Date: March 2, 2005
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 584
|
Undoubtably Oehler is the King, but several will work fine and your budget may help you decide which. But, the reason for owning one is very well illustrated by Mark whiz, and Rodger Petersens posts. BTW, Hey Houston guys, grew up by the old Gulfgate shopping center!
Velocities need to be checked to match with the performance you desire and may go along ways in helping you choose an excellent powder. When you find one that delivers the velocity, or lack thereof that you are looking for, and the loads are grouping well enough to excite you, there's nothing like looking at a piece of modern technology that agree's with centuries old principles. That is not to say, Standard deviation is absolutely definitive for accuracy, but when they do agree, you probably made a wise powder decision! $.03 |
May 4, 2005, 04:11 AM | #7 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 20, 1999
Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country)
Posts: 14,324
|
Mandatory
Oehler, PACT, or CED.
Get one with a separate 'brain', because you'll shoot it. "Chrono mapping"........... If one just stuffs shells to make noise go bang then one probably doesn't need a chrono, but everyone else does.
__________________
. "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo" |
May 4, 2005, 07:29 AM | #8 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 1, 2004
Location: houston, tx
Posts: 179
|
looks like Oehler
Wow, that was quick.... just posted last night and all these great hints! Thanks guys. Looks like Oehler is a good choice from what I read here. Glad I asked, saw a lot of stuff on ebay, mostly F1 or something. I think I will get one since I am also a kind of data junky
Happy shooting and measuring! |
May 4, 2005, 10:37 AM | #9 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 29, 1999
Location: Salem, Oregon
Posts: 1,581
|
To get back to your basic question, a chrono is very usefull as the published figures and actual performance WILL vary considerably. The tables just put you in the ball park.
With the chrono you will know whether the rounds are performing as desired. The usual routine for pistols is to start off at about 10% less powder than listed, load a number of rounds at that level and then several more groups with each successive loading .2 gr more. Don't know what increment works for rifles. Take the loads out and put through the chrono until you reach the performance you want all the while watching for over pressure if some of the loads are above the listed value. Now as to camps favoring brands, the above Oehler is considered the Ferrari of chronos which is great for bench rest, but at this stage you may not want that degree of performance. To test the waters and get good solid basic performance at a beer budget price check the Shooting Chronys. The Beta version gives you the separate computer which is placed on the bench in front of you. It is easier to read that the LCD on the chrono and less subject to stray bullets.
__________________
Smart Gun + 1 Battery + 3 Wires = Dumb Gun PC = Agenda driven groupthink filter on reality. Apostrophes denote ownership or missing letters NOT plurals! |
May 4, 2005, 11:15 AM | #10 |
Junior member
Join Date: May 31, 2004
Location: The Toll Road State, U.S.A.
Posts: 12,451
|
Get an Oehler 35 P. It's the best.
|
May 6, 2005, 04:03 PM | #11 |
Member
Join Date: March 9, 2005
Location: florida
Posts: 32
|
chrony
midway has the cheaper model chrony for 69$ right now...a great way to get into the chrono bus. without breaking the bank.
|
May 6, 2005, 05:49 PM | #12 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 11, 2002
Location: high up in the rockies
Posts: 2,289
|
You'll never regret buying an Oehler. The very best costs more up front, but usually end up being the cheapest in the long run.
__________________
If you think a mighty military force is expensive, wait 'til you see what a weak one costs. |
May 6, 2005, 07:09 PM | #13 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 3, 1999
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 2,991
|
I sure love my 35P. Reliable in nearly any light and the printer is great. Also sure live the 3 skyscreens that give me the confidence in every shot!
__________________
10mm and 357sig, the best things to come along since the 38 super! |
May 6, 2005, 09:11 PM | #14 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 15, 2004
Posts: 934
|
I shoot a lot of milsurp powder and a Chrony has gotten me out of trouble a couple of times. Milsurp burning rates vary wildly and visual pressure indications are not that reliable. When the Chrony tells you that your velocities are 300 fps over what you were expecting, it's time to rethink your plan.
|
May 6, 2005, 10:11 PM | #15 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 27, 2004
Location: TEXAS
Posts: 404
|
Have owned Pact and as of a year ago, an Oehler 35P. Wouldn't go back to another now other than another Oehler. Customer service is fantastic as well. Only 45 minutes from me to boot. I think the most important thing for me is letting me know how consistantly I am loading a particular round. It is a great trouble shooter. Lousy group, great Standard Deviation, change bullet or powder. Most likely you are doing everything right with very low SD, just change the combination a bit. Great Groups with higher SD, look at primer....On and on. I use it as a tool to measure my work and the result has always been better rounds at the end of the day. I have my own range, which makes setting up a no hassle and or no firing line to worry about.
|
May 6, 2005, 11:56 PM | #16 |
Member
Join Date: February 15, 2005
Location: MINOT (MINDROT) ND
Posts: 81
|
Oehler 43 Pbl, Everything Else Is A Tradeoff. Ie: Junk.
__________________
PLEASE EXCUSE UPPER CASE TYPING I AM HANDICAPPED AND ONLY TYPE WITH ONE HAND. THANK YOU FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION. HANDLOADS ARE LIKE UNDERWEAR.....BE CAREFUL WHO YOU SWAP WITH. HAPPY TRAILS, BILL NRA LIFE MEMBER-1965 THE THREAD KILLER |
May 7, 2005, 02:13 AM | #17 |
Junior member
Join Date: March 2, 2005
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 584
|
And I cant think of one that won't give +/- .1% or less in accuracy provided you set it up properly. Go with your budget and get one that provides standard deviation, unless you want to have to learn like I did, how to do it on your calculator!
|
May 7, 2005, 08:13 AM | #18 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 2, 2004
Location: Murderapolis
Posts: 521
|
Oehler, Oehler, Oehler - oh please! Oehler has been superseded by the CED Millennium, which proves to be more convenient, more features, better accuracy via testing (although this is a moot point because ALL chrony's are just about as accurate as any other). Does the Oehler have permanent memory that can be downloaded into your computer? Does the Oehler have software that can perform internal & external ballistics from the data out of the chrony? Does the Oehler have infra-red skyscreens that allow flawless data capture in ANY lighting condition, including total darkness? God, the list goes on & on...
Not slighting the Oehler - excellent unit for sure and has been the standard of measurement for years, but in no way is it "best", at least not any more. CED has taken chrony operation, accuracy and convenience to the next level and now all other competitors are trying to catch up...
__________________
Tom. |
May 7, 2005, 08:40 AM | #19 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 1, 2004
Location: houston, tx
Posts: 179
|
indoor use?
One more question: How well does a chrono work in an indoor range? Any models better than others indoor? Looks like the Oehler is great but after a search not cheap!
Thanks to all |
May 7, 2005, 09:47 AM | #20 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 2, 2004
Location: Murderapolis
Posts: 521
|
Far as my CED, no problems AT ALL, no matter what the lighting conditions:
Check this: Handloads.com - Lots-O-stuff brewin’ for tomorrow!
__________________
Tom. |
May 8, 2005, 06:57 AM | #21 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 29, 2001
Location: Where the Red Sox meet the Black Bears
Posts: 561
|
Nortonices, your photo doesn't show if there is a printer or not. does the CED come with a printer; and if so, can you please describe it?
Thanks. |
May 8, 2005, 08:23 AM | #22 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 2, 2004
Location: Murderapolis
Posts: 521
|
Nope. no printer comes with it. Don't really need a portable printer either as you can scroll through the permanent memory of all your groups and shots at will, right on the big LCD display. Get home with it, attach it to your computer, and use its printer if desired.
There was a small thermal HP printer that was offered at one time that would hitch to the CED. Here's a Q&A about that from the FAQ section of Competitive Edge Dynamics web site (the folks whom actually make this unit): Quote:
Competitive Edge Dynamics The primary State-side resellers of this unit is Recreational Software Inc, and they too have a great deal of excellent info on this and other CED offerings. Check them here: Recreational Software Inc.
__________________
Tom. |
|
May 8, 2005, 08:33 AM | #23 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 29, 2001
Location: Where the Red Sox meet the Black Bears
Posts: 561
|
Thank you. I'll look at the info.
|
May 8, 2005, 09:17 AM | #24 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: December 2, 2004
Location: Murderapolis
Posts: 521
|
Here's a pretty good, very recent article by John Taffin of American Handgunner magazine (March-April 2005) judging a few different chronys, including the CED Millennium and the Oehler - good reading:
But which one? John does a good job getting right down to the nitty-gritty of actual operation and effectiveness of Chrony's in his article. He's pretty much right on the button in terms of the fact that all Chrony's are really just about as accurate as any other, once you get any of them to register shots effectively (a big point - if ya can't get consistent & reliable reading time & time again, then really how convenient is that? But really, look at what CED offers as the overall package with all the accessories that no one else even comes close to matching. One thing that Taffin fails to mention though is the testing that has been done on the CED as compared to the Oehler in terms of accuracy - from the RSI web site: Quote:
- Official Chronograph for the IPSC European Championships - Official Chronograph for the IPSC World Championships - Official Chronograph for the following matches: USPSA National Championships (Open / Limited) Pan American Championships S & W Millennium Championships USPSA Area 2,5,7 & 8 Championships IPSC African Championships - Official Chronograph endorsement for ALL IPSC Level 4 & 5 Championships world-wide - Official Chronograph and Timer for the following matches: 1911 Single Stack Classic Championship USPSA Area 3, 4, 5 Regional Championships The Masters Tournament USPSA Limited National Championship USPSA OPEN National Championship Quote:
__________________
Tom. |
||
July 17, 2005, 11:43 AM | #25 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 5, 2005
Location: Henderson NV
Posts: 360
|
oehler 35p
I've had mine for years; just about the time you get an accurate load, the chrony calls you a liar; go figure.....its 6 of one, 1/2 dozen of the other;
|
|
|