safety deposit box and firearms. - Page 2

Justice06RR · October 7, 2011, 11:11 PM

The scene from "Bourne Identity" comes to mind where he picks up his deposit box with loads of money, passports, and a Sig pistol. Lol.

Why not just keep the firearm stored in your home instead? I don't really trust banks... all they do is take your money.

zxcvbob · October 7, 2011, 11:51 PM

You keep most of your pistols stored in your house. You keep one or two somewhere else in case your house burns down or the government seizes all your guns (that they know about.) Safe deposit box sounds like a fine idea to me.

It doesn't take the "end of civilization" situation either. Let's say you shoot a burglar or attempted rapist who breaks into your house, and the sheriff comes and takes *all* your guns, not just the one you shot the bad guy with. Do you really want to be defenseless if the BG's kinfolks come looking for you? Assume there's a waiting period on buying a new gun, or the sheriff somehow puts a temporary block on you getting NICS approved.

Crazy88Fingers · October 7, 2011, 11:59 PM

Quote:

I think the boxes do go "dormant" or something similar after awhile. I never dealt with that side so I don't know the time frame or rules when it happens or how often you have to visit to keep it from happening... and it may vary by state.

That doesn't sound right. As long as you're paying the fee I don't see why a bank would foreclose on your safety deposit box and give up free money every month.

And, if I recall, you aren't allowed to carry a firearm into a federal bank. Private banks will vary.

**Mike Irwin** · October 8, 2011, 06:57 AM

"That doesn't sound right. As long as you're paying the fee I don't see why a bank would foreclose on your safety deposit box and give up free money every month."

It won't.

Escheating the contents of a safe deposit box to the state normally requires that the box be abandoned (no rent paid, no one visiting) for a number of years -- 5, I think -- and multiple attempts must be made to reach the registered owner.

Brian Pfleuger · October 8, 2011, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy88Fingers

And, if I recall, you aren't allowed to carry a firearm into a federal bank. Private banks will vary.

What exactly is a "federal" bank?

Hardcase · October 10, 2011, 01:32 PM

About 25 years ago, I went to the bank with my mom and dad where they were clearing out their safety deposit box. Among other things, dad had a Colt Police Positive Target revolver in .22WRF and a Colt New Army .38 in it.

Some of the other things? My first baby shoes, dad's first pair of glasses, my sister's christening cup and one of my mom's first dolls.

Excluding the two guns, the total value of the stuff? Probably just about zero. The sentimental value? Priceless, of course. It was the craziest bunch of stuff I've ever seen in a safe.

Idaho's gun laws haven't changed much, other than to get a little laxer, maybe.

**Aguila Blanca** · October 10, 2011, 02:43 PM

I suppose if something is "priceless" and impossible to replace, conventional rules no longer apply. Insurance is of no use with respect to something that has zero monetary value but infinite sentimental value. I understand your parents' reasoning completely.

Crazy88Fingers · October 10, 2011, 02:57 PM

Quote:

What exactly is a "federal" bank?

Federal reserves and whatnot? I'm not sure. I never go into federal banks, so I never really cared enough to look into the law. Of course, I could be wrong about the whole thing.

JBriggs · October 10, 2011, 03:46 PM

I have stored firearms with in my safety deposit box before. First, you must speak with the manager and tell them what you want to do. Second, no ammunition will be allowed to be stored with the firearm. Third, must be in a locked case (key cannot be with the case nor in the deposit box). Fourth, bank representative will be the one to actually bring the forearm into the bank. Fifth, they will watch you put in your box.

When you want to remove it from your box, the bank will have you take it out of your box and give it to them to carry outside to the parking lot.

I did this for several years, but became a hassle to retrieve my babies.

Skans · October 10, 2011, 05:07 PM

There is no way tha I'm leaving any gun with a bank. It makes me quite queezy just to leave my money with them. 1. They are not gun friendly. 2. They charge excessive fees for pittiful service. 3. Too easy to lose safe deposit key. 4. Limited hours of operation. 5. Extreme Hassle to retrieve and "fondle" or shoot when I want to.

I'd much rather spend the money on building a heavy duty floor safe with the same dimensions at a safe deposit box. In fact, if I ever get to design my own home, I'm including a vault room.

**Aguila Blanca** · October 10, 2011, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBriggs

First, you must speak with the manager and tell them what you want to do. Second, no ammunition will be allowed to be stored with the firearm. Third, must be in a locked case (key cannot be with the case nor in the deposit box). Fourth, bank representative will be the one to actually bring the forearm into the bank. Fifth, they will watch you put in your box.

What's the source of these requirements? I've never heard of any such restrictions. Is this based on your state's laws, or is this from the rules of whatever bank you were dealing with?

Brian Pfleuger · October 10, 2011, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca

What's the source of these requirements? I've never heard of any such restrictions. Is this based on your state's laws, or is this from the rules of whatever bank you were dealing with?

I would virtually guarantee that it's the "oh crap we have to invent a policy because no one ever asked" policy.

I'd ask the bank NOTHING except "Can I have a copy of your rules regarding safe deposit boxes". What's written is the rule. Anything else is beuracratic bull.

Onward Allusion · October 10, 2011, 05:50 PM

Quote:

cajun47
safety deposit box and firearms.
im wondering. i never had a safety deposit box at a bank. no idea whats involved but i hear its for valuables. whats more valuable than a good handgun?

does the law allow this? do banks allow this? are the safety deposit boxes checked? are there cameras in there? i don't even know how big they are and if a glock 19 would even fit.

this would be for a spare handgun of course.

No better place for 'em for long term storage. Keep ammo, money, disposable cell + charger, alternate passports, & prepaid credit card with 'em too.

johnbt · October 10, 2011, 06:36 PM

I've had safety deposit boxes for decades and I don't believe the contents are insured. One of the tropical storms that blew through here dumped 14" of rain in an afternoon and flooded a branch bank's vault. The newspaper articles said that the contents were not insured.

Your homeowner's might cover a theft, but fire and rain, ha. Bombs? Forget it.

Here...

www.bankrate.com/brm/news/insur/20030117a.asp

wally626 · October 10, 2011, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by JBriggs
First, you must speak with the manager and tell them what you want to do. Second, no ammunition will be allowed to be stored with the firearm. Third, must be in a locked case (key cannot be with the case nor in the deposit box). Fourth, bank representative will be the one to actually bring the forearm into the bank. Fifth, they will watch you put in your box.

Quote:

What's the source of these requirements? I've never heard of any such restrictions. Is this based on your state's laws, or is this from the rules of whatever bank you were dealing with?

NC bans carry in financial institutions, so the reason for the procedures would be due to state law.

**Aguila Blanca** · October 10, 2011, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wally626

NC bans carry in financial institutions, so the reason for the procedures would be due to state law.

But how does NC define "carry," and in what context? Is "transporting" an unloaded firearm in a briefcase or attache case deemed to be "carrying" under the NC law that prohibits carrying in banks?

Edward429451 · October 10, 2011, 11:07 PM

You seem to be looking at this the wrong way. All laws are (supposedly) based on intent. I carry into my bank regularly and do not need to ask anyone if I am allowed to carry into the bank because I am breaking no laws and my intent is lawful business at the bank, therefor it is unequivocally not any of the banks business if I have a weapon on me.

The way I see it, carrying to the bank is for to the front door, and away from the front door. If I'm in a bank while it gets robbed, I doubt I would engage them and let the bank handle it. I assume they have insurance for those things. The gun is for the walk back to my car, which is probably not the banks responsibility . To ask permission is to un-necessarily muddle up the situation and make waves. If you walk with honor and Lawful intent, there are very few places that you can not carry.

I think storing a weapon in a safe deposit box is a dandy idea. Remember, you pay for having that lock box in the bank. Think about that for a moment and tell me what that is! You are buying secure privacy. You paid for that box, now you have the right to an expectation of privacy surrounding the contents of the box. It is now none of their beeswax.

**Aguila Blanca** · October 10, 2011, 11:32 PM

In Re: wally626 -- links to NC laws.

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedL...GS_14-269.html

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedL..._14-269.4.html

Ah, here is is: 14-415.11(c): http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedL...14-415.11.html

But please note that the financial institution must post a conspicuous notice of the prohibition or the law does not apply.

And if the prohibition applies, then none of the other things mentioned would be legal. If the financial institution prohibits firearms, then asking permission to put a firearm in a safe deposit box can't overule the law, nor can having a bank employee carry the firearm since the employee probably doesn't have a permit and isn't allowed to even touch the firearm or whatever the firearm is contained in. If they do, they would be breaking the law by carrying without a permit.

youngunz4life · October 11, 2011, 01:01 AM

I see no problem with it, and I like the concept of the box. I am against it if it is against the law or their policy though. You're pushing your luck at that point.

Also, you might have a box for 40yrs without disturbance and someone else might have one for a week before a nosey person looks inside. People are human and curious, that doesn't mean they will steal your stuff.

**Mike Irwin** · October 11, 2011, 06:42 AM

"First, you must speak with the manager and tell them what you want to do."

Not going to happen.

The contents of my safety deposit box are private.

What I store in my box is taken in in a brief case. It's none of the bank's business what I'm taking in, none of their business what I'm leaving, and none of their business what I'm picking up.

I'm not going to consult with anyone on what I can and cannot store in my box.

Skans · October 11, 2011, 07:38 AM

Quote:

I'm not going to consult with anyone on what I can and cannot store in my box.

You don't need to. Before leasing a safe deposit box, all you need to do is read the lease agreement. You will have your answer.

Brian Pfleuger · October 11, 2011, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngunz4life

Also, you might have a box for 40yrs without disturbance and someone else might have one for a week before a nosey person looks inside. People are human and curious, that doesn't mean they will steal your stuff.

Bank employees don't just "get curious" and start opening boxes. Depending on the bank and type of boxes, there MIGHT be ONE master key that will open the boxes. It is tightly controlled and accessible to ONE person. In some cases, the master key AND your key are BOTH required to open the box and there is only ONE of your key... It's expensive to lose that key as the bank must drill out the lock to open the box.

Beyond the key issue, bank employees don't just hang out in the vault on their lunch hour and the vault is not exactly hidden in the basement corner, it's generally front and center. Anyone in there when they shouldn't be or doing what they shouldn't be will be very obvious to all the other employees.

WVsig · October 11, 2011, 09:03 AM

People are throwing around a ton of missinformation in this thread. Here are a few points which I would like to make. I work at a bank and deal with safe deposit boxes.

When you rent a box you are given 2 keys. They are the only 2 keys in existence that can open that lock. A 2nd master key also needs to present in order to open the box. A bank employee cannot open the box without "your" key. If you loose the keys they drill the box.

It is against Federal law for someone to open your box without your permission unless they have a warrant. If you are not on the lease and signature card you cannot access the box.

You do not have to enter/access the box in order for it to be considered open and active. If the box is paid for that is considered active by most banks. It is not uncommon for a box not to be opened for years. I have a hard time believing that Chase in CA is opening a box which was paid for because no one has signed into it in the last year.

The bank should have no knowledge of what is inside the box unless you disclose it. 99.99% of banks once you open the box provide a private room for you to take things out of and place things into the box. If you are not on the lease you cannot enter this room.

Most banks have a policy against keeping a gun there but I know of no laws which prevent it but this might vary from state to state.

The contents of the box are not insured by the bank. Some homeowners policies will cover safe deposit box contents. If you keep cash or gold etc....in a safe deposit box and the bank blows up your items are not insured.

Eschment of a box varies from state to state but in WV it is 5 years of non-payment. At that point the box is drilled and the contents are sent to unclaimed property.

**Mike Irwin** · October 11, 2011, 09:29 AM

"You don't need to. Before leasing a safe deposit box, all you need to do is read the lease agreement. You will have your answer."

The lease agreement doesn't matter in the least.

There's no way for the bank to know exactly what I'm putting in my safety deposit box unless I tell them.

There's no reason for me to tell them.

There's no reason (or legal method) for them to open my box without a warrant from a law enforcement agency.

Up until I got my safe a few years ago I had safety deposit boxes at three separate institutions.

Other than the legalese on escheatment and when and how the box would be opened without my consent, I didn't concern myself with anything else in the agreement.

Here's a link to an interesting discussion about this subject from a banker's point of view:

http://www.bankersonline.com/securit...ec060302c.html

Be sure to read the last paragraph.

WVsig · October 11, 2011, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Here's a link to an interesting discussion about this subject from a banker's point of view:

http://www.bankersonline.com/securit...ec060302c.html

Be sure to read the last paragraph.

If the bank clearly states it is prohibited in the lease you will have a hard time getting and insurance company to pay a claim on your loss if one should occur.

Working at a bank I can tell you that we do not really care what is in the box and again 99% of the time have no way of knowning unless you tell us.

October 7, 2011, 11:51 PM	#27
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 4,720	You keep most of your pistols stored in your house. You keep one or two somewhere else in case your house burns down or the government seizes all your guns (that they know about.) Safe deposit box sounds like a fine idea to me. It doesn't take the "end of civilization" situation either. Let's say you shoot a burglar or attempted rapist who breaks into your house, and the sheriff comes and takes all your guns, not just the one you shot the bad guy with. Do you really want to be defenseless if the BG's kinfolks come looking for you? Assume there's a waiting period on buying a new gun, or the sheriff somehow puts a temporary block on you getting NICS approved. __________________ "Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth

October 8, 2011, 06:57 AM	#29
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,381	"That doesn't sound right. As long as you're paying the fee I don't see why a bank would foreclose on your safety deposit box and give up free money every month." It won't. Escheating the contents of a safe deposit box to the state normally requires that the box be abandoned (no rent paid, no one visiting) for a number of years -- 5, I think -- and multiple attempts must be made to reach the registered owner. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

October 10, 2011, 01:32 PM	#31
Hardcase Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2009 Location: Sunny Southern Idaho Posts: 1,909	About 25 years ago, I went to the bank with my mom and dad where they were clearing out their safety deposit box. Among other things, dad had a Colt Police Positive Target revolver in .22WRF and a Colt New Army .38 in it. Some of the other things? My first baby shoes, dad's first pair of glasses, my sister's christening cup and one of my mom's first dolls. Excluding the two guns, the total value of the stuff? Probably just about zero. The sentimental value? Priceless, of course. It was the craziest bunch of stuff I've ever seen in a safe. Idaho's gun laws haven't changed much, other than to get a little laxer, maybe. __________________ Well we don't rent pigs and I figure it's better to say it right out front because a man that does like to rent pigs is... he's hard to stop - Gus McCrae

October 10, 2011, 03:46 PM	#34
JBriggs Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2007 Location: North Carolina Posts: 328	I have stored firearms with in my safety deposit box before. First, you must speak with the manager and tell them what you want to do. Second, no ammunition will be allowed to be stored with the firearm. Third, must be in a locked case (key cannot be with the case nor in the deposit box). Fourth, bank representative will be the one to actually bring the forearm into the bank. Fifth, they will watch you put in your box. When you want to remove it from your box, the bank will have you take it out of your box and give it to them to carry outside to the parking lot. I did this for several years, but became a hassle to retrieve my babies. __________________ Bear Arms or Wear Chains

October 10, 2011, 11:32 PM	#43
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,460	In Re: wally626 -- links to NC laws. http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedL...GS_14-269.html http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedL..._14-269.4.html Ah, here is is: 14-415.11(c): http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedL...14-415.11.html But please note that the financial institution must post a conspicuous notice of the prohibition or the law does not apply. And if the prohibition applies, then none of the other things mentioned would be legal. If the financial institution prohibits firearms, then asking permission to put a firearm in a safe deposit box can't overule the law, nor can having a bank employee carry the firearm since the employee probably doesn't have a permit and isn't allowed to even touch the firearm or whatever the firearm is contained in. If they do, they would be breaking the law by carrying without a permit. Last edited by Aguila Blanca; October 10, 2011 at 11:43 PM.

October 7, 2011, 11:11 PM	#26
Justice06RR Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2010 Location: Central FL Posts: 1,360	The scene from "Bourne Identity" comes to mind where he picks up his deposit box with loads of money, passports, and a Sig pistol. Lol. Why not just keep the firearm stored in your home instead? I don't really trust banks... all they do is take your money.

October 10, 2011, 02:43 PM	#32
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,460	I suppose if something is "priceless" and impossible to replace, conventional rules no longer apply. Insurance is of no use with respect to something that has zero monetary value but infinite sentimental value. I understand your parents' reasoning completely.

October 10, 2011, 05:07 PM	#35
Skans Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Posts: 11,132	There is no way tha I'm leaving any gun with a bank. It makes me quite queezy just to leave my money with them. 1. They are not gun friendly. 2. They charge excessive fees for pittiful service. 3. Too easy to lose safe deposit key. 4. Limited hours of operation. 5. Extreme Hassle to retrieve and "fondle" or shoot when I want to. I'd much rather spend the money on building a heavy duty floor safe with the same dimensions at a safe deposit box. In fact, if I ever get to design my own home, I'm including a vault room.

October 10, 2011, 06:36 PM	#39
johnbt Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 1999 Location: Richmond, Virginia USA Posts: 6,004	I've had safety deposit boxes for decades and I don't believe the contents are insured. One of the tropical storms that blew through here dumped 14" of rain in an afternoon and flooded a branch bank's vault. The newspaper articles said that the contents were not insured. Your homeowner's might cover a theft, but fire and rain, ha. Bombs? Forget it. Here... www.bankrate.com/brm/news/insur/20030117a.asp

October 10, 2011, 11:07 PM	#42
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	You seem to be looking at this the wrong way. All laws are (supposedly) based on intent. I carry into my bank regularly and do not need to ask anyone if I am allowed to carry into the bank because I am breaking no laws and my intent is lawful business at the bank, therefor it is unequivocally not any of the banks business if I have a weapon on me. The way I see it, carrying to the bank is for to the front door, and away from the front door. If I'm in a bank while it gets robbed, I doubt I would engage them and let the bank handle it. I assume they have insurance for those things. The gun is for the walk back to my car, which is probably not the banks responsibility . To ask permission is to un-necessarily muddle up the situation and make waves. If you walk with honor and Lawful intent, there are very few places that you can not carry. I think storing a weapon in a safe deposit box is a dandy idea. Remember, you pay for having that lock box in the bank. Think about that for a moment and tell me what that is! You are buying secure privacy. You paid for that box, now you have the right to an expectation of privacy surrounding the contents of the box. It is now none of their beeswax.

October 11, 2011, 01:01 AM	#44
youngunz4life Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2010 Location: United States of America Posts: 1,877	I see no problem with it, and I like the concept of the box. I am against it if it is against the law or their policy though. You're pushing your luck at that point. Also, you might have a box for 40yrs without disturbance and someone else might have one for a week before a nosey person looks inside. People are human and curious, that doesn't mean they will steal your stuff. __________________ "Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!" -Admiral Farragut @ Battle of Mobile Bay 05AUG1864

October 11, 2011, 06:42 AM	#45
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,381	"First, you must speak with the manager and tell them what you want to do." Not going to happen. The contents of my safety deposit box are private. What I store in my box is taken in in a brief case. It's none of the bank's business what I'm taking in, none of their business what I'm leaving, and none of their business what I'm picking up. I'm not going to consult with anyone on what I can and cannot store in my box. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

October 11, 2011, 09:03 AM	#48
WVsig Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2010 Location: NC Posts: 5,309	People are throwing around a ton of missinformation in this thread. Here are a few points which I would like to make. I work at a bank and deal with safe deposit boxes. When you rent a box you are given 2 keys. They are the only 2 keys in existence that can open that lock. A 2nd master key also needs to present in order to open the box. A bank employee cannot open the box without "your" key. If you loose the keys they drill the box. It is against Federal law for someone to open your box without your permission unless they have a warrant. If you are not on the lease and signature card you cannot access the box. You do not have to enter/access the box in order for it to be considered open and active. If the box is paid for that is considered active by most banks. It is not uncommon for a box not to be opened for years. I have a hard time believing that Chase in CA is opening a box which was paid for because no one has signed into it in the last year. The bank should have no knowledge of what is inside the box unless you disclose it. 99.99% of banks once you open the box provide a private room for you to take things out of and place things into the box. If you are not on the lease you cannot enter this room. Most banks have a policy against keeping a gun there but I know of no laws which prevent it but this might vary from state to state. The contents of the box are not insured by the bank. Some homeowners policies will cover safe deposit box contents. If you keep cash or gold etc....in a safe deposit box and the bank blows up your items are not insured. Eschment of a box varies from state to state but in WV it is 5 years of non-payment. At that point the box is drilled and the contents are sent to unclaimed property. __________________ -The right to be left alone is the most comprehensive of rights, and the right most valued by free people.-Louis Brandeis -Its a tool box... I don't care you put the tools in for the job that's all... -Sam from Ronin -It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. -Aristotle Last edited by WVsig; October 11, 2011 at 09:09 AM.

October 11, 2011, 09:29 AM	#49
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,381	"You don't need to. Before leasing a safe deposit box, all you need to do is read the lease agreement. You will have your answer." The lease agreement doesn't matter in the least. There's no way for the bank to know exactly what I'm putting in my safety deposit box unless I tell them. There's no reason for me to tell them. There's no reason (or legal method) for them to open my box without a warrant from a law enforcement agency. Up until I got my safe a few years ago I had safety deposit boxes at three separate institutions. Other than the legalese on escheatment and when and how the box would be opened without my consent, I didn't concern myself with anything else in the agreement. Here's a link to an interesting discussion about this subject from a banker's point of view: http://www.bankersonline.com/securit...ec060302c.html Be sure to read the last paragraph. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.