bullet weight substitutions

troy_mclure · March 18, 2009, 01:43 AM

for my 45/70 i can only find i load for some powder i got cheap.
it lists for a 460gr bullet, can i substitute for a different weight bullet by adding/subtracting powder?

also the 1 bullet listed is jacketed, but i want to shoot lead too.

the powder is win748, i got an 8lb bucket for $79.

what is your advise?

HiBC · March 18, 2009, 02:46 AM

I don't mean to be a smart alec,honest.I'm going to suggest that handloading doesn't quite work like"I got this bucket of powder and In can''t find data so can I sustitute ....."

I think I understand the best approach is to back up,breath deep,and re-approach reloading from a little different angle.

Get two or three manuals,and read all the fine print about powders and bullets and primers and how to...

First,was the WW 748 in a sealed factory container? That is the ONLY way you know it is 748,pretty much.That is the only way I buy powder.

Next,45-70 is a bit different to load for as there are 3 different classes of loads,depending which rifle they will be fired in.

A quick look does not show 748 in a couple of manuals.I think it is used in heavy bullet .458 win mag loads.Might be a touch slow.

I'd leave it sealed,if you can.748 works in .223 and .308,among others.Folks are hungry for powder and you might swap for an ideal powder.

Again,I suggest you study up till you can answer this question yourself.

Don't trust ME to steer you right! Good luck.

troy_mclure · March 22, 2009, 04:48 AM

i have several manuals, and the win748 is from the store, and i plan on using it for my .204.

several times, ive been told to contact this person at this mag/shop etc.. because they had worked up a 45/70 load using win748.

so how do these guys "work up" loads?

HiBC · March 22, 2009, 08:00 PM

The 45-70 has been around darn near as long as cartridges have been around.748 has been around for decades

They make a little,cheap loading manual called "Loadbook"

It has Hogdon,Sierra,Lyman,Hornady,Accurate,etc data all in one place for a particular cartridge.

Ken Waters has a book called "Pet Loads"

By golly,if you cannot find a load in all of that,it is because it doen't work out
296 is a WWball powder that is superb in a .44 mag.But,it is not flexible. It has a narrow range of performance It does one thing very well,full power .44 mag There is a start load and it says "do not reduce" and a few grains up is max.I do not know 748 well,but it may have a narrow pressure range of say 50,000 to 60,000 psi that it performs in.That is way too much pressure for many of the 45-70 firearms.

I am saying,with cartridges and powders that have been around,there is no good reason to experiment.That includes Fred over in Hoser county.He may have a 7mm STW load for Bullseye and a 175 gr bullet,but I don't want to know.
We had a guy affectionately known as dumb Darrel.He was a load developer.He blew up a few,even a Ruger 77 .338.That is not easy.

I have done some load development with wildcat cartridges.I have some ways of doing it ,but it would not work to describe it all here.I will say,I select a cartridge and bullet,then use a process to select a powder..

I do not select a powder then try to find a way to use it.

You have not mentioned what 45-70 ypu have.I suspect 748 might work well for very heavy ,near .458 win loads in a Ruger #1 or Siamesse Mauser.

If you have an original 1886 win,or a trapdoor,you may be hurt or killed if you shoot those loads.( I am guessing,I do not have data)

748 works out in .223,so I suspect you will find .204 data

I hope that helps,I tried to give a straight answer.Good luck

troy_mclure · March 23, 2009, 01:05 AM

ive got an encore.
i just ordered load books 45/70. thanks for the advise!

i have a few loads so far for the .204. if nothing else ill just reserve it for that.

thanks for the advise.

March 22, 2009, 04:48 AM	#3
troy_mclure Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2008 Location: gulf of mexico Posts: 2,716	i have several manuals, and the win748 is from the store, and i plan on using it for my .204. several times, ive been told to contact this person at this mag/shop etc.. because they had worked up a 45/70 load using win748. so how do these guys "work up" loads? __________________ There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."

March 23, 2009, 01:05 AM	#5
troy_mclure Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2008 Location: gulf of mexico Posts: 2,716	ive got an encore. i just ordered load books 45/70. thanks for the advise! i have a few loads so far for the .204. if nothing else ill just reserve it for that. thanks for the advise. __________________ There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."

March 18, 2009, 01:43 AM	#1
troy_mclure Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2008 Location: gulf of mexico Posts: 2,716	bullet weight substitutions for my 45/70 i can only find i load for some powder i got cheap. it lists for a 460gr bullet, can i substitute for a different weight bullet by adding/subtracting powder? also the 1 bullet listed is jacketed, but i want to shoot lead too. the powder is win748, i got an 8lb bucket for $79. what is your advise? __________________ There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."

March 18, 2009, 02:46 AM	#2
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,286	I don't mean to be a smart alec,honest.I'm going to suggest that handloading doesn't quite work like"I got this bucket of powder and In can''t find data so can I sustitute ....." I think I understand the best approach is to back up,breath deep,and re-approach reloading from a little different angle. Get two or three manuals,and read all the fine print about powders and bullets and primers and how to... First,was the WW 748 in a sealed factory container? That is the ONLY way you know it is 748,pretty much.That is the only way I buy powder. Next,45-70 is a bit different to load for as there are 3 different classes of loads,depending which rifle they will be fired in. A quick look does not show 748 in a couple of manuals.I think it is used in heavy bullet .458 win mag loads.Might be a touch slow. I'd leave it sealed,if you can.748 works in .223 and .308,among others.Folks are hungry for powder and you might swap for an ideal powder. Again,I suggest you study up till you can answer this question yourself. Don't trust ME to steer you right! Good luck.

March 22, 2009, 08:00 PM	#4
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,286	The 45-70 has been around darn near as long as cartridges have been around.748 has been around for decades They make a little,cheap loading manual called "Loadbook" It has Hogdon,Sierra,Lyman,Hornady,Accurate,etc data all in one place for a particular cartridge. Ken Waters has a book called "Pet Loads" By golly,if you cannot find a load in all of that,it is because it doen't work out 296 is a WWball powder that is superb in a .44 mag.But,it is not flexible. It has a narrow range of performance It does one thing very well,full power .44 mag There is a start load and it says "do not reduce" and a few grains up is max.I do not know 748 well,but it may have a narrow pressure range of say 50,000 to 60,000 psi that it performs in.That is way too much pressure for many of the 45-70 firearms. I am saying,with cartridges and powders that have been around,there is no good reason to experiment.That includes Fred over in Hoser county.He may have a 7mm STW load for Bullseye and a 175 gr bullet,but I don't want to know. We had a guy affectionately known as dumb Darrel.He was a load developer.He blew up a few,even a Ruger 77 .338.That is not easy. I have done some load development with wildcat cartridges.I have some ways of doing it ,but it would not work to describe it all here.I will say,I select a cartridge and bullet,then use a process to select a powder.. I do not select a powder then try to find a way to use it. You have not mentioned what 45-70 ypu have.I suspect 748 might work well for very heavy ,near .458 win loads in a Ruger #1 or Siamesse Mauser. If you have an original 1886 win,or a trapdoor,you may be hurt or killed if you shoot those loads.( I am guessing,I do not have data) 748 works out in .223,so I suspect you will find .204 data I hope that helps,I tried to give a straight answer.Good luck