Mozambique Drill

[CrowShooter]

That's just 3 unaimed rounds downrange and "FWIW, .93 first shot is very slow for me" is just silly. BTW, you missed your grip on the second string and you shouldn't move your head down to the gun. Way too much movement..........

Get real.

[David Armstrong]

DA, as I was taught it by Ray Chapman more than 20 years ago, there was no pause because as he put it, stopping to guage the effectiveness will get you killed.

Ray was probably doing it as a competition technique, rather than a combat technique. The Mozambique was coined and defined by Jeff Cooper following an actual incident by one of his students. The assessment is an essential part of the true combat Mozambique, as opposed to the competition version. Like Tim said, the true Mozambique includes the assessment stage, instead of an automatic head shot.

[Lurper]

Crowshooter,
Thank you for your thoughtful and insightful "critique" of my video. Allow me however to clarify a couple of points.
1. They are not just unaimed shots fired downrange.
2. .93 is slow since my average on 1 shot draw drills is the low to mid .8's
3. I did not "miss" my grip even though that was the first time I used that holster
4. Perhaps you are the one who should get real
5. Didn't believe that video? Check out this one.

http://s89.photobucket.com/albums/k2...uerevisted.flv
Overall, I think your post was "just silly."

[Lurper]

DA, you are probably right. I don't remember the exact conversation since it was 1985, but I was not taught to hesitate.

[CrowShooter]

1. Sure they are. You're not shooting .13's at a 7 yard head shot. Please.
2. No way.
3. Yes, you did, corrected between 2nd and 3rd shots, you can see the poor grip in your video. You can't see it? Pretty obvious to me.
4. Perhaps, but anyone that knows anything knows that you are not doing low to mid .8 draws, unless they are 1 yard targets. Absolutely ridiculous.
5. No, I didn't, and FYI, won't.

OK, I'm done with you on this one.

CS

[Lurper]

CS
1. Are not. If you listen to the video, the splits are .19 & .16. Thank you.
2. Way. When I was actively competing, my draws were in the .70's.
3. Don't know what vision altering chemicals you are using. But, since your eye is obviously well trained, I must have.
4. Perhaps that means you just don't know anyone who knows anything. I can tell you 20 or 30 shooters off the top of my head that can do that at 10 yards.
5. Could really care less.

[SeaMariner]

Wow.... I don't know what you shoot crow, but maybe you should hit the competitive circuit and see just how fast some people are.

I don't practice enough to get that fast but with a light trigger, I've taken a Morini and dumped a complete 5-rd mag in under a second... that means that each shot followed the next by less the .2 of second... With my current 1911, that'd be dang impossbile on account that I'm currently set up with a 10lb trigger.

[JohnKSa]

CrowShooter,

Either here or on THR, I've seen a member named Ankeny post a Mozambique video that was about the same speed.

It's common for a person to assume that because they can/can't do something that same limitation or ability will transfer to others.

[BouncerDan]

Something to remember here is that when you are shooting at a real target the first two rounds to the chest may not stop him but they will affect him. More likely then not he will drop some if not all the way to the ground. So it isn't a good idea to train yourself to automatically move from chest to where the head was. Because chances are the head isn't going to be in the same spot. So you should always take a moment to get re adjust. Readjustment can be done in a 1/10th of a second and will save you from possibly shooting a by standard.

[evan1293]

Hey Lurper, Great shooting my friend!!! thanks for taking the time to post with vids, its always exiciting for me to see folks at the level Im trying to get to. Keep up the great work. I think you made your buddy "eat crow" with that last video.

[CrowShooter]

I never said that it couldn't be done. I did some 1.40-1.50 Mozambiques Tuesday afternoon at 7 yards, and I haven't shot a match or practiced seriously in over a year. Some were faster, but not all the hits were A's. A lot were slower. I certainly did say that a .93 draw is not slow, because it's not. I can do some .7's as well, but they're not always A's. I can do some in the .8's with a better percentage of A's, but still not all there. When you get into high .9's to about 1.05, then I'm fairly consistent, but that is on close, open targets with no hard cover, and none of these are one shot drills. Not sure if I could ever do that from Kydex, but I've never tried, either. I missed your post about the one shot draw drills, with the comment about the .7's, but you know that those are very misleading, as a good grip is not necessary and you're not really worried about that next shot. Even so, you have to know what you're doing to achieve this, i.e., reaction to the timer, draw, etc., so I'm certainly not taking anything away from you there. Very rare to see anyone in any match doing anything under a .9, unless you are closer than 7 yards. .13 splits, or as you old timers like to call them, breaks, at a head shot are pretty darn fast, and if you're doing .11's consistently you're doing a lot of missing. Fast, even with an Open gun. Not impossible, mind you, but very fast. Very difficult to even shoot .11's doing a Bill Drill, and I can hammer pretty good myself. My point is, I don't want to take away anything from the guys and gals that work hard every day to achieve this by inferring/implying that .7's draws and .11-.13 splits are commonplace: they're not. It takes just the right circumstances to do this. If that offends you, then I apologize in advance, but it's still true.

A Mozambique is a pretty decent drill, because you are trying to shoot it very fast and get all A's. The transition to the head is the kicker here, as you have to really move the gun and stop it just as fast. The tendency at this level, M & GM, is to bring the gun down from recoil as soon as the shot breaks, so to get it going back up to the head shot can just seem foreign at times. You can try a rolling break here, but you're going to fail about 50% of the time, maybe more.

In the second string of your video, it appears to me that your support hand doesn't catch up to the gun until you are almost extended. I can see something there, perhaps it's a shadow. If that's not the case, then my apologies to you. I also noticed that you moved your head a lot on your draw. I didn't imagine that, did I? If I see something that you could improve upon, should I keep quiet? I would sure want to know if I could improve. You know that the correct way is to bring the gun to your face with no other parts of your body moving except your arms.

OK, enough of this. Brian, you're not the only M here and this ain't my first boat ride. Let's move on, I'm trying not to get off on the wrong foot with you, OK? Thanks.

CS

[Lurper]

CS
If you knew me (as opposed to knowing my name), you would know that I can do the things exactly as often and the way I described. Since you live in VA, it wouldn't be too hard to find out. There are enough people there who knew me when I was shooting.

Yes, I could shoot "A's" on demand in the .7 range all day long. I could shoot 2 "A's" in the .9's most of the time. At 10 yards, not 1. I could also do .11 splits without "missing a lot."

What I found offensive was you in essence calling me a liar. I understand that you don't know me from Adam and that I could be just another internet ninja wannabe. But that was over the top.

In reference to the video, it is a shadow or some other phenomena. I did not have a bad grip. As far as the critique of my technique goes:
I don't want to offend you, nor do I mean to sound arrogant, but there are only four people who I feel are qualified or who I care to hear critique me. They are: Shaw, Leatham, Enos and Todd. The first 3 taught me to shoot and Todd and I shot together for years. Do I lower my head more than I should? Yep, I raise my shoulders a tad too much as well. But even with those small bad habits, I was as fast as anyone and faster than most (in the words of one of my teachers). Fast enough to win stages (overall) at the Nationals for a few years when I was competing. FWIW, I quit competing before GM class was created, otherwise I would be a GM.

I don't hold grudges - don't believe in holding on to negative energy. I don't know you and if I met you would base my feelings toward you on our interaction in person, not on a forum. Having said all that, I agree. Bury the hatchet and move forward.

[swk314]

Lurper,

I was wondering why your shots were low on the abdomen of the target. Wouldn't a shooter be aiming at the center of the chest, and then attempt a head shot? I'm not critiscizing, just curious.

[Lurper]

swk
I shot low that entire day. Don't know why, but if the sights are in the "A" zone, then I break the shot.

[SeaMariner]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=cY9CyA9s41c

Watch this guy.... in front of a crowd (so we know there's so watch acceleration crap). Multiple targets.... 8 shots.... one second.... reload..... another 8 shots..

Practice is what makes this possible... any more doubting is just people who want excuses not to practice....

Lurper, excellent shooting. Keep up the practice and don't slow down for others' criticism... Everybody else.... the avg human has a reaction time in the neighborhood of 3-400 ms.... some of us with more training (ex, sports players, gamers, well-practiced shooters, etc) have times in the the 1-200 ms range.... Sub-100ms reaction times have been seen. Why am I stating this... well somebody said why make the head shot so quickly, since the guy might have moved after being hit with the first bullet.... Popycrock.... with the bullets landing in a sub 500ms spread, the avg human whould not even have reacted to the first hit yet, much less have time to move sufficiently to avoid the third...


Human anatomy is a great topic. I recomend study in your free time.


(Btw... 8 shots in 1 sec with a revolver is just disgusting.... )

[Charles S]

Off topic but, SeaMariner the video is quite real, it is an excerpt from a history channel special. The gentleman (I do mean that in every sense of the term) is Mr. Miculek, an incredible world class shooter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Miculek

I have seen him shoot 6 shots and reload with 6 more shots in person out of his S&W 625 in just over 3 seconds with all A zone hits.

Then on demand he shot 6 shots in under a second A zone, single target, with a Ruger Speed six with 2 3/4 inches of barrel, full house loads.

Mr. Miculek teaches at his place in Bossier City, LA. The name of his school is Bang and he can tailor a class to meet your needs. He is a great teacher and a great guy. His wife is an incredible shooter also.

His website is:http://www.bang-inc.com/

Lurper and Crowshooter, you are both well above my skill level and for that matter faster than the vast majority of shooters in the world. I am in graduate school so I am not shooting competitively now, but I know what I can do and I cannot shoot anywhere near your draw times nor your splits. I cannot shoot anywhere near the splits you are even if I am just shooting a bill drill. I just am not that fast.

[Lurper]

Charles
You are correct, Jerry is a first class shooter and a first class human being (Kay is as well). When I was competing, I shot with both of them.


You should really tell yourself that right now you don't have the skill to shoot that fast. However, you are capable of it. If I can do it, anyone can.
"Whether you believe you can or cannot, either way you are correct."
Henry Ford

Truer words were never spoken.

[Capt. Charlie]

I shot low that entire day. Don't know why, but if the sights are in the "A" zone, then I break the shot.

Just a thought here, but I've seen shooters frequently shoot low when speed shooting from the holster. What happens is that a person will start shooting while the arm is still being extended and the muzzle isn't yet on target.

If you ever get access to a FATS system, the computer critique shows a slow motion, visible tracking of the muzzle from the instant you clear leather. Using FATS, I've learned that I often have a tendency to put my first shot low when I try to push the speed issue just a little too much. The laser tracking clearly shows that the muzzle hasn't completed its arc on my first shot.

[Charles S]

You should really tell yourself that right now you don't have the skill to shoot that fast. However, you are capable of it. If I can do it, anyone can.

You are correct. I just don't currently have the time to dedicate to practice to attain that level of skill and speed. I may in the future, but not now.

Jerry is a first class shooter and a first class human being (Kay is as well).

I have been fortunate enough to take classes from them both. Kay and Jerry are excellent teachers and are good at diagnosing problems. I am a much better shooter because of their instruction.

[Covert Mission]

re: the true Mozambique includes the assessment stage, instead of an automatic head shot."

The assessment is basically "Oh, [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color], he's not going down (with the 1st two rounds)...a failure to stop, so you add the head shot.

The head being a small, usually moving target in this situation, some trainers advocate a pelvis/groin shot just below where body armor would stop, as ithat zone is bigger, moving less, and presumably would stop the attack. It won't, of course, "turn off the lights" as would a round to the BHU (brain housing unit).

I've no personal experience with using the Mozambique in real life, but I do practice it as a good measure of defensive skill (from concealment), along with the El Prez. FWIW