range scrap?

swampy308 · May 6, 2016, 07:53 PM

Have any of you ever used range scrap with good results in a 30-30?

I casted some 150gr going to try some with imr-3031.

chris in va · May 6, 2016, 10:18 PM

'Range scrap' is typically pure soft lead if derived from FMJ. You'll want much harder alloy for 30-30 and even then a gas check and downladed to about 1600fps.

FrankenMauser · May 6, 2016, 10:53 PM

I haven't run any in rifle loads, as far as I can remember.

My range scrap consists of primarily center-fire bullets, ranging from FMJs to 'hard-cast' revolver bullets, from plated bullets to jacketed HPs, from 'bonded' rifle bullets to rimfire bullets, from Minié balls to powder coated bullets, and from muzzleloader round balls to shotgun slugs. ...Quite the variety.

As such, what I end up with seems to be around BHN 9-11, and may need a little tin refreshment. For me, that's great. That's what I prefer for most bullets, anyway.

But if there were more FMJs and/or rimfire bullets, it would be softer. And my next batch is likely to be harder, as I've been making an effort to dig up more of the 'hard-cast' bullets on the 25 yard handgun range and have been finding more Speer Gold Dots in the last year (plated bullet -- slightly harder alloy than most jacketed HPs).

If I still had a .30-30, I might give it a shot with a batch that was on the harder side (BHN 11, or so).

Jimro · May 7, 2016, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Have any of you ever used range scrap with good results in a 30-30?

I casted some 150gr going to try some with imr-3031.

Range scrap can vary from 9 to 14 BHN depending on what the heck is in it (lots of hard cast revolver bullets is going to be different from a lot of rimfire bullets), so without knowing what you've got there isn't much anyone can tell you.

But, if you are going to gas check them, then you'll have to find the "velocity limit" for your load. I'd recommend cutting 50/50 with clip on wheel weight if you can.

Jimro

Sure Shot Mc Gee · May 7, 2016, 08:30 AM

Range scrap lead has a perfect BHN for making paper patched rifle bullets or slow speed target bullets (pistol & rifle) Speeds above or exceeding 8-900 fps count on seeing barrel leading with R/L use. Those (above) purposes R/Lead I believe is best used for.

res45 · May 7, 2016, 09:59 AM

Fit is King,I size my 30-30 bullet to .311" on some I use gas checks on some I don't,it really just depends on the BHN and the velocity I'm going to shoot them at.

Some of my favorite plinking loads in my Sav. 30-30 pump gun are either the Lee 150 or 170 gr. RNFP and the Lee .314" 93 gr. SWC designed for 32 cal. handguns,the 93 gr. bullet is sized down to .311" I cast the 93 gr. from pure lead with a light coat of Alox/JPW lube before and after sizing and use 3.5 grs. Bullseye for a nice little load that replicates 22 rf ammo and is equally as accurate.

Knowing the BHN of your range scrap is a key to just how fast you can shoot them with or without a gas check. I cast a 170 gr. Lee bullet form 30:1 Lead/Tin which give me a BHN of around 10 I gas check the bullet and size to .311" and shoot it behind 28 grs. of H335 which give me a MV close to 2K fps. never have any leading issues with that load.

As mentioned I also shoot both Lee 150 & 170 gr. RNFP bullet without gas check these loads are cast from 50/50 Lead/Clip on WW with a BHN right at 10. I generally shoot these loads a 1250 fps. with just a light coat of Alox/JPW lube before and after sizing and push them with 7.0 grs. of Red Dot.

If the BHN of my range scrap is unknown I would start on the light side using the starting loads on this page,you will probably get a little velocity gain but not much. You can use the heavier bullet data with the lighter 150 gr. bullet. http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

50 yd. test target with open sights.

swampy308 · May 7, 2016, 11:05 AM

The scrap I gathered is mostly plated and jacketed pistol bullets, out of 150 lbs just guessing 10 to 15 % is hard cast very little 22 and slugs.

res45 · May 7, 2016, 11:27 AM

swampy308,assuming that your range scrap has around 10% hard cast bullets which would be around 15 lbs. If you melted all that down together your final BHN would probably be around 9+.

Really hard to say for sure without testing the final mix,but I ran the numbers on my alloy calculator using pure lead and hard cast bullets with a BHN of 20 which gave me a final BHN of 9.8. Some hard cast can run a little harder and some a bit softer so the final BHN may vary. You may even be able to water quench the bullet straight from the mold and gain a little hardness after they set a couple weeks.

briandg · May 7, 2016, 01:56 PM

My short answer is that it simply isn't a good idea to drag a bucket of scrap home, melt it down, and feed it through a rifle.

If you go to the trouble of checking the stuff for hardness with pliers, you may wind up with some blocks of useable hard brass.

When you say range, are you referring to digging through a berm and dragging out bullets, ore are you getting it from an indoor bullet trap? If the answer is an indoor trap, the answer is NO!!! The indoor trap will be made up of small, lightweight, soft lead cores, lightweight and soft revolver and small bore semiautomatic rounds, and a high percentage of rimfire. Your salvage will barely be adequate for heavy pistol loads.

I keep saying the same thing. This stuff is cheap. Don't make do with the wrong powder, wrong primers, lousy equipment,etc. Buy good equipment. Buy appropriate powder, instead of making do with what's on the bench.

Factory lead can be bought for two bucks or so per pound online. A big gun shop might even sell it. Do not use mixed scrap in high velocity rifle rounds.

swampy308 · May 12, 2016, 02:56 PM

From what you all are saying,I'm starting to wonder about trying them with unique first. Almost forgot I am using a gas check on these.

swampy308 · May 19, 2016, 07:29 PM

Ok I loaded 5 up with 7.5 gr. of Unique , and they work great no leading, and I think they will group good.

I'll have to adjust my sights to see, I shot three times before I thought to aim high and when I did the last two was one hole.

All I can say is that I'm happy with them.

gwpercle · May 27, 2016, 07:07 PM

The range scrap is going to be soft , 7.5 grains of Unique is a light load and with a gas check there should be no problems.
If you want to up the velocity and develop a deer hunting load, mix the range scrap and clip on wheel weight metal approx. 50-50 and add some tin, this makes an excellent hunting bullet alloy.

I mix 5 lbs. range scrap + 5 lbs. COWW and add 1 lb. print type or 50/50 bar solder . In 30-30 I cast a Lee 170 grain Flat Point with gas check, air cooled , size to .309 and load to 1850 to 1950 fps. 3031 powder is excellent for this velocity . That load is a hum dinger on hogs and deer.

Gary

swampy308 · May 27, 2016, 11:59 PM

Hey gwpercle
All I have is this range scrap for now, can't get ww anywhere in my area.
Probably end up having to buy from roto metal, but not sure what to get, I want something that will mushroom good.

Old 454 · June 24, 2016, 07:19 PM

I get all the lead i need from old water pipe. I have been ordering lino from roto.

Wish i could find old lino type set .

LAH · June 24, 2016, 10:01 PM

The range scrap I'm using now must have a high percentage of hard cast bullets as it test 14 BHN air cooled. I'm using it in my 30-30 & so far so good.

May 6, 2016, 07:53 PM	#1
swampy308 Member Join Date: May 16, 2009 Posts: 93	range scrap? Have any of you ever used range scrap with good results in a 30-30? I casted some 150gr going to try some with imr-3031.

May 6, 2016, 10:53 PM	#3
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,424	I haven't run any in rifle loads, as far as I can remember. My range scrap consists of primarily center-fire bullets, ranging from FMJs to 'hard-cast' revolver bullets, from plated bullets to jacketed HPs, from 'bonded' rifle bullets to rimfire bullets, from Minié balls to powder coated bullets, and from muzzleloader round balls to shotgun slugs. ...Quite the variety. As such, what I end up with seems to be around BHN 9-11, and may need a little tin refreshment. For me, that's great. That's what I prefer for most bullets, anyway. But if there were more FMJs and/or rimfire bullets, it would be softer. And my next batch is likely to be harder, as I've been making an effort to dig up more of the 'hard-cast' bullets on the 25 yard handgun range and have been finding more Speer Gold Dots in the last year (plated bullet -- slightly harder alloy than most jacketed HPs). If I still had a .30-30, I might give it a shot with a batch that was on the harder side (BHN 11, or so). __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

May 7, 2016, 01:56 PM	#9
briandg Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2010 Posts: 5,468	My short answer is that it simply isn't a good idea to drag a bucket of scrap home, melt it down, and feed it through a rifle. If you go to the trouble of checking the stuff for hardness with pliers, you may wind up with some blocks of useable hard brass. When you say range, are you referring to digging through a berm and dragging out bullets, ore are you getting it from an indoor bullet trap? If the answer is an indoor trap, the answer is NO!!! The indoor trap will be made up of small, lightweight, soft lead cores, lightweight and soft revolver and small bore semiautomatic rounds, and a high percentage of rimfire. Your salvage will barely be adequate for heavy pistol loads. I keep saying the same thing. This stuff is cheap. Don't make do with the wrong powder, wrong primers, lousy equipment,etc. Buy good equipment. Buy appropriate powder, instead of making do with what's on the bench. Factory lead can be bought for two bucks or so per pound online. A big gun shop might even sell it. Do not use mixed scrap in high velocity rifle rounds. __________________ None.

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May 6, 2016, 10:18 PM	#2
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	'Range scrap' is typically pure soft lead if derived from FMJ. You'll want much harder alloy for 30-30 and even then a gas check and downladed to about 1600fps.

May 7, 2016, 08:30 AM	#5
Sure Shot Mc Gee Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2012 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,876	Range scrap lead has a perfect BHN for making paper patched rifle bullets or slow speed target bullets (pistol & rifle) Speeds above or exceeding 8-900 fps count on seeing barrel leading with R/L use. Those (above) purposes R/Lead I believe is best used for.

May 7, 2016, 09:59 AM	#6
res45 Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2007 Location: NC Posts: 753	Fit is King,I size my 30-30 bullet to .311" on some I use gas checks on some I don't,it really just depends on the BHN and the velocity I'm going to shoot them at. Some of my favorite plinking loads in my Sav. 30-30 pump gun are either the Lee 150 or 170 gr. RNFP and the Lee .314" 93 gr. SWC designed for 32 cal. handguns,the 93 gr. bullet is sized down to .311" I cast the 93 gr. from pure lead with a light coat of Alox/JPW lube before and after sizing and use 3.5 grs. Bullseye for a nice little load that replicates 22 rf ammo and is equally as accurate. Knowing the BHN of your range scrap is a key to just how fast you can shoot them with or without a gas check. I cast a 170 gr. Lee bullet form 30:1 Lead/Tin which give me a BHN of around 10 I gas check the bullet and size to .311" and shoot it behind 28 grs. of H335 which give me a MV close to 2K fps. never have any leading issues with that load. As mentioned I also shoot both Lee 150 & 170 gr. RNFP bullet without gas check these loads are cast from 50/50 Lead/Clip on WW with a BHN right at 10. I generally shoot these loads a 1250 fps. with just a light coat of Alox/JPW lube before and after sizing and push them with 7.0 grs. of Red Dot. If the BHN of my range scrap is unknown I would start on the light side using the starting loads on this page,you will probably get a little velocity gain but not much. You can use the heavier bullet data with the lighter 150 gr. bullet. http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm 50 yd. test target with open sights.

May 7, 2016, 11:05 AM	#7
swampy308 Member Join Date: May 16, 2009 Posts: 93	The scrap I gathered is mostly plated and jacketed pistol bullets, out of 150 lbs just guessing 10 to 15 % is hard cast very little 22 and slugs.

May 7, 2016, 11:27 AM	#8
res45 Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2007 Location: NC Posts: 753	swampy308,assuming that your range scrap has around 10% hard cast bullets which would be around 15 lbs. If you melted all that down together your final BHN would probably be around 9+. Really hard to say for sure without testing the final mix,but I ran the numbers on my alloy calculator using pure lead and hard cast bullets with a BHN of 20 which gave me a final BHN of 9.8. Some hard cast can run a little harder and some a bit softer so the final BHN may vary. You may even be able to water quench the bullet straight from the mold and gain a little hardness after they set a couple weeks.

May 12, 2016, 02:56 PM	#10
swampy308 Member Join Date: May 16, 2009 Posts: 93	From what you all are saying,I'm starting to wonder about trying them with unique first. Almost forgot I am using a gas check on these.

May 19, 2016, 07:29 PM	#11
swampy308 Member Join Date: May 16, 2009 Posts: 93	Ok I loaded 5 up with 7.5 gr. of Unique , and they work great no leading, and I think they will group good. I'll have to adjust my sights to see, I shot three times before I thought to aim high and when I did the last two was one hole. All I can say is that I'm happy with them.

May 27, 2016, 07:07 PM	#12
gwpercle Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2012 Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana Posts: 1,752	The range scrap is going to be soft , 7.5 grains of Unique is a light load and with a gas check there should be no problems. If you want to up the velocity and develop a deer hunting load, mix the range scrap and clip on wheel weight metal approx. 50-50 and add some tin, this makes an excellent hunting bullet alloy. I mix 5 lbs. range scrap + 5 lbs. COWW and add 1 lb. print type or 50/50 bar solder . In 30-30 I cast a Lee 170 grain Flat Point with gas check, air cooled , size to .309 and load to 1850 to 1950 fps. 3031 powder is excellent for this velocity . That load is a hum dinger on hogs and deer. Gary

May 27, 2016, 11:59 PM	#13
swampy308 Member Join Date: May 16, 2009 Posts: 93	Hey gwpercle All I have is this range scrap for now, can't get ww anywhere in my area. Probably end up having to buy from roto metal, but not sure what to get, I want something that will mushroom good.

June 24, 2016, 07:19 PM	#14
Old 454 Senior Member Join Date: August 15, 2011 Location: Chesterton Ind. Posts: 822	I get all the lead i need from old water pipe. I have been ordering lino from roto. Wish i could find old lino type set .

June 24, 2016, 10:01 PM	#15
LAH Senior Member Join Date: March 22, 2002 Location: In The Hardwoods Posts: 1,188	The range scrap I'm using now must have a high percentage of hard cast bullets as it test 14 BHN air cooled. I'm using it in my 30-30 & so far so good.