Scenario, you are sleeping at night! - Page 4

Danxyz53 · March 6, 2011, 10:48 AM

I did a Google on the words -swat team wrong house-. I went through some the hits and it appears that SWAT teams all over the country have stormed the wrong home, sometimes with tragic consequences; 80 year old people gong to the hospital for heart attacks triggered by the raids, children in homes with gunfights, etc. Some of the incidents were caused by SWAT carelessness; hitting a house at 1234 NW Terrace, when the real target’s address was 1234 NW Drive and many of the erroneous addresses came from “reliable informants”.

Any human endeavor repeated often enough will result in errors, but given the consequences of a SWAT team hitting a wrong address, processes need to instituted to prevent such errors. Before surgery is started, a “time out” is done, to make sure that the right patient is on the table, the correct surgical predoceure is listed, all personnel in the room are identified, any special equipment needed is in place, etc, etc. Demote SWAT supervisors commanding wrong address raids to the parking ticket brigade for a year, with a pay reduction, and the wrong address raids will stop.

Here are some news accounts of SWAT hitting the wrong house.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,317398,00.html

http://www.king5.com/video/featured-...-83504747.html

http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.co...rong-home.html

http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=32704

http://wsbradio.com/localnews/2010/0...llowing-b.html

http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle-.../badraid.shtml

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=31117

http://slumz.boxden.com/f5/apr-11-sw...house-1074701/

retiredcoasty · March 6, 2011, 11:41 AM

I respect the police and the difficult jobs they have, but…

if I understand this correctly, in order to remain ‘safe’ from home invasion, either by criminals or police, my bride and I need to close and lock our bedroom door behind us? I think not. I am not the macho ‘shoot them all and let God sort them out’ type, but I am insulted that free Americans must lock the doors inside our home behind us in order to sleep safely. Maybe a better idea is to have law enforcement make damned sure that they know what the hell they are doing before they do it. Is it asking too much to expect that the police raid the proper home? Some of the anecdotal stories here have shown that the police raided the wrong home and continued raids when their warrant was invalid. Why did they do that? Their actions were illegal and were not made by mistake. The police made a conscious decision to execute entrance using an invalid warrant and then they arrested the home’s occupant for self-defense. I guess the US Constitution is rapidly becoming a urinal cookie.

Also, anyone that thinks that the bad guys won’t scream “Police” when breaking onto a home is not using their brain. Of course bad guys will say and do whatever they can to make their entry faster and/or safer. Were I a bad guy, I certainly would yell “Police” upon unauthorized entry. It is a logical tactic.

So, coupling the bad guy’s strategy of using police tactics to enter a home with the police possibly breaking down the door, it seems that the folks that will pay the most are the home’s occupants. And that, to put it in one word, is just plain wrong.

I understand that the police have a very difficult job especially when executing a warrant to a possible drug home but they must be 100% sure they are entering the correct house and that their warrant is valid. I have four cops that work for me (one retired and three active) and they have told me to yell and duck (as most here have said is the best answer). They agree that the safest option is the barricade and 911 call recommendation but the right answer does not make it just. It is a terrible statement about our society and its general disrespect of the Constitution that homeowners must physically and mentally prepare themselves for unauthorized home invasion from both criminals and police. And to think that homeowners must lock all doors behind them might be the safest answer, but not the best answer. Although I would not want to be in the police officer’s shoes when executing a warrant, I also don’t want to be the legal homeowner whose sleep is being interrupted by police or criminals.

AK103K · March 6, 2011, 12:42 PM

Maybe the police need a secret knock.

won-a-glock · March 6, 2011, 02:13 PM

[QUOTE=COASTY] I respect the police and the difficult jobs they have, but… [\QUOTE]

Maybe I'm getting old and seen too much official corruption. While I expect citizens should expect some type of 'honor' out of police, I've pretty well lost faith overall. From the Dallas Police "Cocaine Cowboys" steal-swap-smear decades long drug dealing, to Houston Police virtual murder for hire, I just overhead a conversation yesterday that "America's Toughest Sheriff" has officers pilfering ammo from their armory to give to family members, apparently a common practice. One of the family members who works at Cabelas was bragging about all the free ammo he gets from his son the deputy. Even if that came to light, it's unlikely that any criminal action would be taken.

Oh well, after seeing that one local PD's IA department discounts 98 percent of all complaints against officers, then finding out what their criteria is for upholding a complaint (you basically need a news crew on-scene or a confession from the officer), it's clear the cops can't police themselves, so why should they behave?

It doesn't appear to a new phenomena: Remember Serpico? The NYPD police commissioner, after watching the movie said Well, 75% of the NYPD cops are honest. Was that an admission that (only) 1 out of 4 aren't?

So back to the question at hand, "...sleeping at night!", with all due respect and no offense toward any single officer, if anyone solo or from any organization breaks in to my little house in a threatening manner, I'm not asking for ID. As a whole, I see little to no reason to trust guys with guns and badges, as I know I've done nothing wrong.

I expected cops to be trustworthy, loyal, helpful, courteous..... Boy was I a sap.

retiredcoasty · March 6, 2011, 03:21 PM

Glock, I am not saying that the police are corrupt, but when they knowingly use an improper warrant and raid an innocent family sleeping in their beds, that is a mistake… a HUGE mistake and one that they ought to know better than to make. But, and I asked this the other day to a cop friend, if the police are the people dedicated to protect and serve, why do they need locks on their lockers at work? All I received was a ‘rolling eyed’ grin. And this from a retired cop that worked internal affairs for three years. (On a side note, this is the guy from whom I bought my company and I wrote him into the deal for five years.)

I could never be a police officer. If someone kept being an ass, they would get slammed. If they spit at me, slammed. Pulled a knife on me, shot, etc. Cops have a much fuse than I do. I thank them for their dedication and work.

I guess I can’t really answer what I would do until I am confronted with the situation. I hope that I would have enough time to determine whether they were good or bad guys. I have the feeling that I would shoot AFTER making sure the intruders know that I was armed and ready, willing and able to fire in self-defense. I pray that I am never confronted with such decisions.

Ak, they do have a secret knock. It is that big, metal pipe used to break in the door! I know that would open most of my doors!

AK103K · March 6, 2011, 04:09 PM

Quote:

but when they knowingly use an improper warrant and raid an innocent family sleeping in their beds, that is a mistake… a HUGE mistake and one that they ought to know better than to make.

I dont think that if they really "knew" it would continue, but the real point is to get it right in the first place.

They hold us to the standard that we have to get things right as far as the rules go, and we follow them, and ignorance is no excuse or defense. All I ask is they are held to the same standards, and that they be held accountable if they make the mistake. The immunity part needs to go. Somebody has to cowboy up if theres a screw up. Either that, or Im pleading "Sorry" next time they snag me doing 95 in a 65 and citing them as a defense.

Quote:

Ak, they do have a secret knock. It is that big, metal pipe used to break in the door! I know that would open most of my doors!

Good point. It would open mine too. What is it with the police and firemen? If they arent smashing your door down, they want to chop a hole in your roof. Cant they see the smoke and flames coming out of my neighbors house?

sonick808 · March 6, 2011, 04:54 PM

this is a tough topic. I have no answer, no plan, and that bothers me.

Sport45 · March 6, 2011, 07:55 PM

Quote:

I have no answer, no plan, and that bothers me.

I don't have a plan for this and it doesn't bother me a bit. At least it doesn't bother me any more than not having a plan for a shark attack in the swimming pool.

I don't conduct any business in my house that might attract a SWAT raid. To the best of my knowledge none of my neighbors do either.

Our time is better spent planning what to do if attacked by Africanized honey bees than the police. It's one of the better things about living in America.

MLeake · March 6, 2011, 08:02 PM

... odds are highly against this stuff happening to any given one of us.

And, hopefully, you actually know your neighbors. (I've moved so often, that I typically don't know most of mine. Prior military, and contract work for the last while.)

However, bad things sometimes happen where you would not expect them.

Years ago, some friends of mine in Florida were an Air Force couple, both pilots. She was an instructor pilot at a joint squadron in Pensacola; he was a pilot at Hurlburt.

They had moved from the San Antonio area. Real estate market was soft, and they didn't get a quick sale, so they had rented out their San Antonio house and had a rental agent handling the day-to-day details.

Nice enough neighborhood; figure two O-3's salaries paid the mortgage.

Anyway, they ended up in Federal court, and out about $25k in legal fees to get their house back. DEA confiscated it, when it turned out the tenants were running a coke distribution ring out of the house. One would imagine their former neighbors were as surprised about this as my friends themselves were.

In my current neck of the woods, some fairly nice rental houses in the 'burbs have turned out to be meth labs. The landlords had no idea; in theory, neither did the neighbors.

So, if you don't actually know the neighbors, you might be surprised at the possibilities that could bring the police to your street.

Sport45 · March 6, 2011, 08:41 PM

Quote:

However, bad things sometimes happen where you would not expect them.

That, and everything else you mentioned above is true.

My concern is that we have people thinging of scenarios like this one and planning their course of action if it happens to them.

Some of these same people probably don't have a fire extinguisher in their kitchen or know where the lug wrench is in their car.

While I believe it is okay to think about stuff like this I think it is better for us to spend time and effort preparing for things more likely to happen.

Ryder · March 6, 2011, 08:44 PM

I would simply look out the bedroom window for police cars in my driveway or parked in the street. What they say is meaningless. With a tactical advantage of high ground and hard cover I can surrender myself but not taken involuntarily, stupid to try.

MLeake · March 6, 2011, 08:51 PM

I agree with you there.

Smoke detectors, fire extinguishers, first aid kits... there are a lot of things that should take a much higher priority, that many probably have not addressed.

Too practical and mundane, perhaps...

Lucky for me, I have that stuff, and have an RN in training in the house, so I can distract myself with less practical concerns now and then.

youngunz4life · July 2, 2011, 06:08 AM

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/07/01...-police-death/

WOW

dougbull · July 2, 2011, 10:17 AM

I look at it like this,I am about to be 50, never been arrested in my life. Some one kicks in my door, shoots my dog, I will return fire. theres no reason to kick my door in. I dont care who it is. home invasions are very common here.. FL.. they beat and rob the elderly and sometimes kill...

C0untZer0 · July 2, 2011, 10:37 AM

I disconnected my CO smoke detector because it would go off whenever I would cook bacon or make tater tots in my oven.

If I was really concerned about survival I'd spend the money to get a better model that trips less false positives.

If the police have to break into my house it will most likely be because I've died from carbon monoxide poisoning and no one has heard from me in a week.

TheNocturnus · July 2, 2011, 11:04 AM

Well thanks for reviving this older thread.
I had not thought of this in a while. A similar situation happened to my cousin about 7-8 years ago. The swat team set up outside his house and then proceeded to bust their way in. They did this during the day when my cousin was at work but his room mate was home. They arrested the room mate, he had no idea what was going on, and they found a bong.

They were supposed to be raiding a drug house two doors down and for some reason got the wrong address. Unluckily for my cousin and his room mate, they had a bong in the house, no drugs. Anyway, no charges were filed.

I like the idea of barricading and calling 911, that is my plan.

sigcurious · July 2, 2011, 01:27 PM

I concur with the barricade, call 911 and wait. Just because that would be my plan for bump in the night, regardless of someone shouting "police", "fbi", "captain america" or whatever.

Although I would also hope that if it were LEOs accidentally in my house, they would have cleared my apt so fast that I'd just be sitting up in bed dumbfounded, whereas I'd hope BGs even if smart enough to shout "police" would take much longer without the tactical training to clear a place quickly.

I just hope police don't have a charge for being slobbered on, as my dog would bark about them being outside, but once they came in, YOU'RE MY FRIEND HIHIHI! lol. Although it would worry me that my dog charging up to them to say hello, would be mistaken for angry dog attacking.

Edward429451 · July 2, 2011, 03:23 PM

Quote:

"WHAT IF" Scenarios like this one are crazy

No, their scary. If we never what if then many would not have a clue of a course of action to take if..X happens. If you were to go outside your house in your yard and look at your house with the eye of one who would attack it for forced entry...then it becomes obvious things that you can do to slow them down. There is no stopping them with our duct tape building code, but you can slow them down. You can control the environment against anyone.

You do not have to give up and hope that it is real police and not corrupt police.
Resigning yourself to giving up would be enabling the criminal element and giving up personal dignity. Adding layers of security to your home can only help. Mortise locks, foot locks, bars, jams, dogs, alarms, anything to stop them at the door.
If they have light bars their legit? HA! My friend has one.
ID the cops? Love it! Technically speaking one is supposed to be able to do this and inspect a warrant before entry, but that was back when the police were legit and not now.

I think that fortifying ones home and being able to deny entry (to anyone) is a reasonable and prudent course of action for citizens. Even if it was the police at the wrong address and they get miffed at you denying them access, later when it is all sorted out they will probably respect the fact that you were able to do it. Or not.

zxcvbob · July 2, 2011, 03:52 PM

Quote:

The dog will be shot dead.
True, but it would at very least slow them down, make a lot of noise, and possible immobolize 1 or more of them.

Of course they will shoot the dog. But that still slows them down a little, and it give credibility to my story that I feared for my life when I open up on whoever or whatever comes thru my bedroom door. If they are going to kill me anyway, I want to take as many with me as I can. [ETA: it matters to me not at all whether they really are police at that point, they are illegal home invaders trying to kill me]

If I knew there were warrants out for my arrest or if I was dealing drugs or something, my response might be different.

TylerD45ACP · July 2, 2011, 04:25 PM

What if in your half sleep half adrenaline fueled state you get your piece and SWAT shoots at you. Now that is a scary thought because it probably could happen.

youngunz4life · July 3, 2011, 12:54 AM

usually the innocent one on the bad end of a mistake has absolutely no clue what is going on. the crook already knows the drill when they have the right house!

Quote:

ID the cops? Love it! Technically speaking one is supposed to be able to do this and inspect a warrant before entry, but that was back when the police were legit and not now.

During this juncture nothing is going to happen until the house is secure and every individual is contained. This is unfortunate for someone who is innocent but for Officer safety.

DRBoyle · July 3, 2011, 03:06 AM

A person wakes up and knows without a doubt they are innocent, the options should be the innocent person's and that's that. To a certain extent naturally. For example if an officer is injured initially and the rest of the unit decides to cease fire and talk to the occupant you would not expect the occupant to continue firing, etc.

Removing that risk to the job is a great way to remove the citizens from the police work. Removing the consequence for a fatal mistake (occupant has a heart attack, is shot etc) is another way to alter the police force. In another unrelated way to the topic, reducing the pay and working conditions for officers is another way to undermine the police force.

Ultimately it's hard to blame the officers doing the real work. It's always come down to those in charge and that includes passing legislation. Officers easily get a bad rep but the superiors are the real problem. They know what goes on despite the supposed ignorance.

It all sounds like a problem of accountability with a feigned concern for public opinion used when convenient.

0.02

mcwop · July 5, 2011, 08:50 PM

Just read this thread after posting mine with the same question. This is happening in Baltimore right now.

My Thread

jrgurkins · July 7, 2011, 07:46 AM

I live in the country. rhere are three houses on our road and none of us mark our places with street numbers. Our house isn't marked for reasons of piece of mind for my wife. Back in 94 here mother was killed in a robbery of their Gun and jewlery shop. My wife was a witness and still has dreams.
We live in a two story house and know may LE local and fed. I was EST(s.w.a.t) in the Air force. I have given this situation thought in the past and feel in my situation the best action is to Step 1-baracade in room if not enough time proceed to Step 2- Rack around in 12 ga(scary sound in dark house even to LE) Step 3- call 911 and anounce same and request assistance.
If it turns out they are LE then I would surrender my weapon to the officers on hand with assistance from 911 dispatch and everyone goes off into the sunrise and later has a story to tell about the time they were sent to the wrong house.
Moral to the story keep your head and always think not what would I do but what should I do?

March 6, 2011, 08:02 PM	#84
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	Sport45... ... odds are highly against this stuff happening to any given one of us. And, hopefully, you actually know your neighbors. (I've moved so often, that I typically don't know most of mine. Prior military, and contract work for the last while.) However, bad things sometimes happen where you would not expect them. Years ago, some friends of mine in Florida were an Air Force couple, both pilots. She was an instructor pilot at a joint squadron in Pensacola; he was a pilot at Hurlburt. They had moved from the San Antonio area. Real estate market was soft, and they didn't get a quick sale, so they had rented out their San Antonio house and had a rental agent handling the day-to-day details. Nice enough neighborhood; figure two O-3's salaries paid the mortgage. Anyway, they ended up in Federal court, and out about $25k in legal fees to get their house back. DEA confiscated it, when it turned out the tenants were running a coke distribution ring out of the house. One would imagine their former neighbors were as surprised about this as my friends themselves were. In my current neck of the woods, some fairly nice rental houses in the 'burbs have turned out to be meth labs. The landlords had no idea; in theory, neither did the neighbors. So, if you don't actually know the neighbors, you might be surprised at the possibilities that could bring the police to your street.

March 6, 2011, 08:51 PM	#87
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	Sport45 I agree with you there. Smoke detectors, fire extinguishers, first aid kits... there are a lot of things that should take a much higher priority, that many probably have not addressed. Too practical and mundane, perhaps... Lucky for me, I have that stuff, and have an RN in training in the house, so I can distract myself with less practical concerns now and then.

July 2, 2011, 06:08 AM	#88
youngunz4life Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2010 Location: United States of America Posts: 1,877	I wanted to post this in another thread but it has been locked-national news 7/1/11 http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/07/01...-police-death/ WOW __________________ "Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!" -Admiral Farragut @ Battle of Mobile Bay 05AUG1864

July 2, 2011, 10:17 AM	#89
dougbull Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2008 Posts: 127	door kicked in I look at it like this,I am about to be 50, never been arrested in my life. Some one kicks in my door, shoots my dog, I will return fire. theres no reason to kick my door in. I dont care who it is. home invasions are very common here.. FL.. they beat and rob the elderly and sometimes kill...

July 2, 2011, 10:37 AM	#90
C0untZer0 Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,555	I'm guilty I disconnected my CO smoke detector because it would go off whenever I would cook bacon or make tater tots in my oven. If I was really concerned about survival I'd spend the money to get a better model that trips less false positives. If the police have to break into my house it will most likely be because I've died from carbon monoxide poisoning and no one has heard from me in a week.

March 6, 2011, 10:48 AM	#76
Danxyz53 Member Join Date: September 19, 2010 Posts: 26	I did a Google on the words -swat team wrong house-. I went through some the hits and it appears that SWAT teams all over the country have stormed the wrong home, sometimes with tragic consequences; 80 year old people gong to the hospital for heart attacks triggered by the raids, children in homes with gunfights, etc. Some of the incidents were caused by SWAT carelessness; hitting a house at 1234 NW Terrace, when the real target’s address was 1234 NW Drive and many of the erroneous addresses came from “reliable informants”. Any human endeavor repeated often enough will result in errors, but given the consequences of a SWAT team hitting a wrong address, processes need to instituted to prevent such errors. Before surgery is started, a “time out” is done, to make sure that the right patient is on the table, the correct surgical predoceure is listed, all personnel in the room are identified, any special equipment needed is in place, etc, etc. Demote SWAT supervisors commanding wrong address raids to the parking ticket brigade for a year, with a pay reduction, and the wrong address raids will stop. Here are some news accounts of SWAT hitting the wrong house. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,317398,00.html http://www.king5.com/video/featured-...-83504747.html http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.co...rong-home.html http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=32704 http://wsbradio.com/localnews/2010/0...llowing-b.html http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle-.../badraid.shtml http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=31117 http://slumz.boxden.com/f5/apr-11-sw...house-1074701/

March 6, 2011, 11:41 AM	#77
retiredcoasty Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2009 Location: Central Massachusetts Posts: 139	I respect the police and the difficult jobs they have, but… if I understand this correctly, in order to remain ‘safe’ from home invasion, either by criminals or police, my bride and I need to close and lock our bedroom door behind us? I think not. I am not the macho ‘shoot them all and let God sort them out’ type, but I am insulted that free Americans must lock the doors inside our home behind us in order to sleep safely. Maybe a better idea is to have law enforcement make damned sure that they know what the hell they are doing before they do it. Is it asking too much to expect that the police raid the proper home? Some of the anecdotal stories here have shown that the police raided the wrong home and continued raids when their warrant was invalid. Why did they do that? Their actions were illegal and were not made by mistake. The police made a conscious decision to execute entrance using an invalid warrant and then they arrested the home’s occupant for self-defense. I guess the US Constitution is rapidly becoming a urinal cookie. Also, anyone that thinks that the bad guys won’t scream “Police” when breaking onto a home is not using their brain. Of course bad guys will say and do whatever they can to make their entry faster and/or safer. Were I a bad guy, I certainly would yell “Police” upon unauthorized entry. It is a logical tactic. So, coupling the bad guy’s strategy of using police tactics to enter a home with the police possibly breaking down the door, it seems that the folks that will pay the most are the home’s occupants. And that, to put it in one word, is just plain wrong. I understand that the police have a very difficult job especially when executing a warrant to a possible drug home but they must be 100% sure they are entering the correct house and that their warrant is valid. I have four cops that work for me (one retired and three active) and they have told me to yell and duck (as most here have said is the best answer). They agree that the safest option is the barricade and 911 call recommendation but the right answer does not make it just. It is a terrible statement about our society and its general disrespect of the Constitution that homeowners must physically and mentally prepare themselves for unauthorized home invasion from both criminals and police. And to think that homeowners must lock all doors behind them might be the safest answer, but not the best answer. Although I would not want to be in the police officer’s shoes when executing a warrant, I also don’t want to be the legal homeowner whose sleep is being interrupted by police or criminals.

March 6, 2011, 12:42 PM	#78
AK103K Senior Member Join Date: May 1, 2001 Posts: 10,223	Maybe the police need a secret knock.

March 6, 2011, 02:13 PM	#79
won-a-glock Member Join Date: April 30, 2010 Location: 'sub-urban' to rural desert Posts: 64	[QUOTE=COASTY] I respect the police and the difficult jobs they have, but… [\QUOTE] Maybe I'm getting old and seen too much official corruption. While I expect citizens should expect some type of 'honor' out of police, I've pretty well lost faith overall. From the Dallas Police "Cocaine Cowboys" steal-swap-smear decades long drug dealing, to Houston Police virtual murder for hire, I just overhead a conversation yesterday that "America's Toughest Sheriff" has officers pilfering ammo from their armory to give to family members, apparently a common practice. One of the family members who works at Cabelas was bragging about all the free ammo he gets from his son the deputy. Even if that came to light, it's unlikely that any criminal action would be taken. Oh well, after seeing that one local PD's IA department discounts 98 percent of all complaints against officers, then finding out what their criteria is for upholding a complaint (you basically need a news crew on-scene or a confession from the officer), it's clear the cops can't police themselves, so why should they behave? It doesn't appear to a new phenomena: Remember Serpico? The NYPD police commissioner, after watching the movie said Well, 75% of the NYPD cops are honest. Was that an admission that (only) 1 out of 4 aren't? So back to the question at hand, "...sleeping at night!", with all due respect and no offense toward any single officer, if anyone solo or from any organization breaks in to my little house in a threatening manner, I'm not asking for ID. As a whole, I see little to no reason to trust guys with guns and badges, as I know I've done nothing wrong. I expected cops to be trustworthy, loyal, helpful, courteous..... Boy was I a sap.

March 6, 2011, 03:21 PM	#80
retiredcoasty Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2009 Location: Central Massachusetts Posts: 139	Glock, I am not saying that the police are corrupt, but when they knowingly use an improper warrant and raid an innocent family sleeping in their beds, that is a mistake… a HUGE mistake and one that they ought to know better than to make. But, and I asked this the other day to a cop friend, if the police are the people dedicated to protect and serve, why do they need locks on their lockers at work? All I received was a ‘rolling eyed’ grin. And this from a retired cop that worked internal affairs for three years. (On a side note, this is the guy from whom I bought my company and I wrote him into the deal for five years.) I could never be a police officer. If someone kept being an ass, they would get slammed. If they spit at me, slammed. Pulled a knife on me, shot, etc. Cops have a much fuse than I do. I thank them for their dedication and work. I guess I can’t really answer what I would do until I am confronted with the situation. I hope that I would have enough time to determine whether they were good or bad guys. I have the feeling that I would shoot AFTER making sure the intruders know that I was armed and ready, willing and able to fire in self-defense. I pray that I am never confronted with such decisions. Ak, they do have a secret knock. It is that big, metal pipe used to break in the door! I know that would open most of my doors!

March 6, 2011, 04:54 PM	#82
sonick808 Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Location: Chandler, AZ Posts: 396	this is a tough topic. I have no answer, no plan, and that bothers me.

March 6, 2011, 08:44 PM	#86
Ryder Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 222	I would simply look out the bedroom window for police cars in my driveway or parked in the street. What they say is meaningless. With a tactical advantage of high ground and hard cover I can surrender myself but not taken involuntarily, stupid to try.

July 2, 2011, 11:04 AM	#91
TheNocturnus Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2011 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,097	Well thanks for reviving this older thread. I had not thought of this in a while. A similar situation happened to my cousin about 7-8 years ago. The swat team set up outside his house and then proceeded to bust their way in. They did this during the day when my cousin was at work but his room mate was home. They arrested the room mate, he had no idea what was going on, and they found a bong. They were supposed to be raiding a drug house two doors down and for some reason got the wrong address. Unluckily for my cousin and his room mate, they had a bong in the house, no drugs. Anyway, no charges were filed. I like the idea of barricading and calling 911, that is my plan. __________________ My EDC: Gun Wallet Brain (Use this one the most)

July 2, 2011, 01:27 PM	#92
sigcurious Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 2011 Posts: 1,755	I concur with the barricade, call 911 and wait. Just because that would be my plan for bump in the night, regardless of someone shouting "police", "fbi", "captain america" or whatever. Although I would also hope that if it were LEOs accidentally in my house, they would have cleared my apt so fast that I'd just be sitting up in bed dumbfounded, whereas I'd hope BGs even if smart enough to shout "police" would take much longer without the tactical training to clear a place quickly. I just hope police don't have a charge for being slobbered on, as my dog would bark about them being outside, but once they came in, YOU'RE MY FRIEND HIHIHI! lol. Although it would worry me that my dog charging up to them to say hello, would be mistaken for angry dog attacking.

July 2, 2011, 04:25 PM	#95
TylerD45ACP Senior Member Join Date: July 16, 2010 Posts: 1,654	What if in your half sleep half adrenaline fueled state you get your piece and SWAT shoots at you. Now that is a scary thought because it probably could happen.

July 3, 2011, 03:06 AM	#97
DRBoyle Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2010 Posts: 124	A person wakes up and knows without a doubt they are innocent, the options should be the innocent person's and that's that. To a certain extent naturally. For example if an officer is injured initially and the rest of the unit decides to cease fire and talk to the occupant you would not expect the occupant to continue firing, etc. Removing that risk to the job is a great way to remove the citizens from the police work. Removing the consequence for a fatal mistake (occupant has a heart attack, is shot etc) is another way to alter the police force. In another unrelated way to the topic, reducing the pay and working conditions for officers is another way to undermine the police force. Ultimately it's hard to blame the officers doing the real work. It's always come down to those in charge and that includes passing legislation. Officers easily get a bad rep but the superiors are the real problem. They know what goes on despite the supposed ignorance. It all sounds like a problem of accountability with a feigned concern for public opinion used when convenient. 0.02

July 5, 2011, 08:50 PM	#98
mcwop Member Join Date: February 6, 2011 Posts: 34	Just read this thread after posting mine with the same question. This is happening in Baltimore right now. My Thread Last edited by mcwop; July 5, 2011 at 09:05 PM.

July 7, 2011, 07:46 AM	#99
jrgurkins Junior Member Join Date: July 7, 2011 Posts: 1	I live in the country. rhere are three houses on our road and none of us mark our places with street numbers. Our house isn't marked for reasons of piece of mind for my wife. Back in 94 here mother was killed in a robbery of their Gun and jewlery shop. My wife was a witness and still has dreams. We live in a two story house and know may LE local and fed. I was EST(s.w.a.t) in the Air force. I have given this situation thought in the past and feel in my situation the best action is to Step 1-baracade in room if not enough time proceed to Step 2- Rack around in 12 ga(scary sound in dark house even to LE) Step 3- call 911 and anounce same and request assistance. If it turns out they are LE then I would surrender my weapon to the officers on hand with assistance from 911 dispatch and everyone goes off into the sunrise and later has a story to tell about the time they were sent to the wrong house. Moral to the story keep your head and always think not what would I do but what should I do?