February 9, 2016, 08:54 AM | #1 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 24, 2010
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 3,318
|
milled vs. stamped AK
Yesterday a guy was arguing stamped is stronger, that milled can crack. I'd always heard stamped is weaker allbeit lighter and cheaper.
So what's the truth? |
February 9, 2016, 09:12 AM | #2 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 29, 2010
Location: Shoshoni Wyoming
Posts: 2,713
|
Both are true, and both are false, depending on what individual AK are being discussed, when it was made, from what kind of steel and by who.
Here is a basic overview: In many cases the pressed AKs really can be stronger than many milled ones but it is not the process of manufacture that is the issue. It's the steel used and the heat-treatments. The very first ones made in Russia were NOT milled but stamped. However they were not done from the correct type of steel and they had cracks developing. So the Russians went to a mild steel and milled the receivers. They were good but had a tendency to batter over time and were not as resistant to denting as they wanted. So next they went to a high grade of steel that was properly heat treated. These were the guns of legend, but were costly to make. Next they went to a spring steel stock and pressed the receivers from sheets. These were also done correctly and were the full equal of the later milled guns, and in fact better then the earliest milled guns. These are the AKMs we see mostly today. BUT... some other nations used the AKM pattern to make their own AKs and some of them went through problems with their first attempts too, because of wrong heat treatments for the alloys they were using. And in the USA today with so many people making AKs from sheet steel some are not up to standards because people don't understand the process that must be done and how to do it, or some people understand but lack the proper equipment to do it right. So is stamped better? Yes, ------ unless its not. Last edited by Wyosmith; February 9, 2016 at 09:19 AM. |
February 9, 2016, 12:38 PM | #3 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 8, 2013
Posts: 226
|
Only item i notice is the milled AKs have a lot more weight, and their prices are much higher.
Myself having three stamped metal AKs, they shoot well and have a lot less weight to deal with. |
February 9, 2016, 03:00 PM | #4 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 23, 2014
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 728
|
Interesting. I would say whatever type is used with current issue Kalashnikov type rifles is best, which would be 1mm pressed Russian sheet steel.
LOVE my saiga
__________________
Without the 2nd amendment, all other rights would not exist |
February 9, 2016, 05:47 PM | #5 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 24, 2010
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 3,318
|
Dealer said milled are known to crack if hammered on full auto to the point that the stock catches fire.
|
February 9, 2016, 10:35 PM | #6 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 28, 2009
Location: North Central Illinois
Posts: 2,704
|
Didn't Kalashnikov make a 1.3mm stamped, for a period, that was supposed to be a very good receiver?
|
February 10, 2016, 03:53 AM | #7 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 29, 2007
Location: Southern by the Grace of God
Posts: 266
|
I have one of each and to be honest I prefer the stamped model for weight reduction if nothing else. If you can find a Norinco MAK-90 or similar, ,they are made with stamped steel that is about half a millimeter thicker than many other builds, so you get more strength without much extra weight.
|
February 10, 2016, 08:38 AM | #8 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 23, 2014
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 728
|
I believe the Russian rpk uses a 1.3 or 1.5mm sheet steel receiver, and also a larger "bulged" front trunnion. I have heard that all Yugoslavian/Serbian AKs are built on a thicker sheet steel receiver similar to an rpk, but their barrels and parts are not chromed. Apparently Molot Vepr rifles are Also built on thicker receivers, but I don't think they uses reinforced trunnions, maybe on the larger calibers like .308, 7.62x54r and 30-06
__________________
Without the 2nd amendment, all other rights would not exist |
February 10, 2016, 08:08 PM | #9 |
Junior member
Join Date: October 20, 2012
Posts: 5,854
|
Just bought a DDI stamped AK. Seems good.
|
February 10, 2016, 09:26 PM | #10 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 9, 1999
Location: Blue State
Posts: 441
|
My Norinco NHM-91 is stamped 1.5mm, and I've shot the hell out of it and it's GTG. I've also shot the hell out of my milled .223 and .308 Galil's. (not Golani) GTG. Do some research and pick. Don't fall into the 'paralysis from analysis' trap. My God, they are AKMs or AK-47. Headspace is more important than milled/stamped.
Good luck. |
February 11, 2016, 09:59 PM | #11 |
Junior Member
Join Date: February 11, 2016
Posts: 4
|
Kalashnikov's original design was stamped. The Soviets could not mass produce it with the necessary reliability at the time so they opted for a milled receiver. As soon as their tech caught up they began to stamp and never looked back.
A quality stamped AK will outlive your grandchildren. There is absolutely no benefit to a milled receiver. |
February 11, 2016, 11:13 PM | #12 |
Junior member
Join Date: October 20, 2012
Posts: 5,854
|
I like my DDI stamped so far, but it's got a TIGHT magazine release. Too tight.
I'm going to talk to the factory tomorrow. |
February 11, 2016, 11:20 PM | #13 |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 5, 2010
Location: McMurdo Sound Texas
Posts: 4,322
|
I've owned both and like the milled better. The weight difference didn't seem like much. Considering the heritage, both have an excellent reliability factor.
__________________
Cave illos in guns et backhoes |
February 12, 2016, 09:48 AM | #14 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 5, 2000
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 1,761
|
I have a Century C39 V2 with the milled receiver. Shoots well with Hornady 123 grain in front of H335. I guess its a bit heavier than the stamped models, but with the weight between my hands, its really no bother. One thing nice about the weight is that it doesn't kick much more than a 22 Mag lol
|
February 13, 2016, 12:00 AM | #15 |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 12, 2015
Location: Issaquah WA. Its a dry rain.
Posts: 1,774
|
I have two friends, one is a russian who loves his commie guns, they both say the good ismash stamped are where the strength is. Keep in mind the stamped was actually the pinnacle of the mass production tech, not just for ease. But it also depends on the manf.
|
February 13, 2016, 10:16 PM | #16 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 4, 2001
Posts: 7,476
|
Many people claim that a quality milled receiver rifle is "usually" more accurate then a quality stamped rifle.
US military personnel who've spent time in Africa have reported seeing stamped AK rifles in use by teenage soldiers that have been fired so much the rifling is pretty much just gone, leaving essentially a smooth bore, but the rifles are still working. They have about zero accuracy but are still serving as bullet hoses which is about all the kids are able to do anyway. |
February 13, 2016, 10:29 PM | #17 |
Junior member
Join Date: October 20, 2012
Posts: 5,854
|
From all of my readings, it appears the stamped guns are the way to go if one is concerned with SAWC (size and weight considerations).
Every bit as good durability, accuracy is right in line with a milled, and the guns are lighter. One can put a side mount and micro dot on a stamped AK for the weight made up over a milled gun. |
February 13, 2016, 10:38 PM | #18 |
Staff
Join Date: February 12, 2001
Location: DFW Area
Posts: 24,910
|
I've owned a couple of milled that I sold and one stamped that I still own. I won't buy another milled one. IMO the weight savings of a stamped receiver is significant, and if there's a performance difference I can't detect it.
__________________
Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?
|
March 1, 2016, 11:25 PM | #19 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 24, 2010
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 3,318
|
What about Arsenal milled vs. stamped? Also maybe the extra weight Is good for fast follow up shots. I will investigate next range outing.
|
March 1, 2016, 11:42 PM | #20 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 24, 2010
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 3,318
|
http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7114
See post #1, Arsenal guy says milled is better other than weight which is pretty Apple's to Apple's being as how they make both (or did at the time). |
March 2, 2016, 02:49 AM | #21 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 16, 2005
Location: AZ
Posts: 3,113
|
Battlefield Vegas (a large range specializing in full auto rentals) says that stamped AK receivers generally last 80,000-100,000 rounds before failure, and that the milled receivers are yet to fail.
That translates to $17,000-21,000 worth of ammo. While there is a difference in durability, you are not likely to see it. |
March 2, 2016, 09:20 AM | #22 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 5, 2010
Posts: 665
|
The smoothest shooting AK I owned was a milled SLR 95. It was in the top2 for accuracy too. My current setup is a SLR107fr. I think it is the most accurate AK I have had. But for pure smooth shooting the milled rifle felt better.
__________________
"All warfare is based on deception. Hence when we are able to attack we must seem unable....when using our forces we must appear inactive. When we are near we must make the enemy believe we are far away."Sun Tzu The Art of War. |
March 2, 2016, 09:40 AM | #23 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 17, 2015
Location: South Central MO / Africa
Posts: 1,111
|
Had a milled Arsenal Bulgaria SLR95MB shot the same as my Romanian SAR-1. Sold off the SLR95 kept the SAR-1.
|
March 3, 2016, 08:45 AM | #24 |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 5, 2010
Posts: 665
|
SAR 1 is a nice rifle too. Light little compact thing.
__________________
"All warfare is based on deception. Hence when we are able to attack we must seem unable....when using our forces we must appear inactive. When we are near we must make the enemy believe we are far away."Sun Tzu The Art of War. |
March 5, 2016, 12:13 AM | #25 |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 12, 2015
Location: Issaquah WA. Its a dry rain.
Posts: 1,774
|
In terms of real russian AKs, stamped are better. They started milling them, then as the technology was perfected they moved to stampings. The stamping get a bad rap because people think of stamping as being a process done to save money, which is true but that doesn't mean I cant be done well.
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|