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Old January 27, 2016, 03:06 PM   #1
RoyalWe
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SU-16 over an AR15

I'm sure I'm the minority, but I absolutely prefer an SU-16 over an AR-15.
For the normal "Everyman" citizen the SU-16 does everything you'd want. It has more than acceptable accuracy, about 3MOA, is extremely light in comparison to an AR, while maintaining the convenience of using the extremely popular AR mags and 5.56 round. My personal favorite features about this firearm are that it folds making it easy to stow in a back pack and it holds 2-10's or 1-20rd magazine in the stock making it a self contained system, no need to get mag pouches. All of this, I think, makes it the perfect bug out rifle and ideal for everyone. It's sufficient for hunting (any game takeable by the 5.556) as well as home defense. It's biggest flaws are it's not as durable, we'll say, as the AR though it doesn't dirty up as easy, and the forearm bi-pod is really only useful of keeping it out of the dirt as it's so flimsy it doesn't do anything for accuracy. Lastly, the disassembly is a bit more involved that an AR. All in all though, these aren't issues that are really likely to cause anyone great duress unless you think you're Rambo and try to take on an army.
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Old January 27, 2016, 04:15 PM   #2
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*I got my popcorn and easy chair*

Seriously though, I myself have thought about picking up an SU16. It has its pro's but the AR's wide spread popularity is a big plus. SO much available for it. And the fact that a Po Boy like me can buy a piece here and there and in no time have a complete rifle.
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Old January 27, 2016, 04:21 PM   #3
Glenn E. Meyer
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I saw one have its stock crack in half during a carbine class. YMMV.
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Old January 27, 2016, 04:29 PM   #4
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*Pass the popcorn*

I saw an AR with a polymer upper for $599 yesterday. I can't really buy an SU-16 any cheaper.
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Old January 27, 2016, 04:53 PM   #5
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*I got my popcorn and easy chair*
Same here.

Other than portability, I can't think of any respect in which an SU-16 is superior to a quality AR-15.
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Old January 27, 2016, 05:04 PM   #6
silverbullet6oh
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SU-16A, I'll take one.

When I was shopping for my AR-15, I was in a pickle of a decision between my PSA I have now and getting an SU-16 rifle.

After going back in forth, I finally decided to go with my PSA, only because I could get parts so easily from anyone else who has AR's.

But if I do ever buy another semi-auto rifle it will be one of the top contenders.

I do not add much to my guns. This was another reason for me liking the SU-16 as well, cause Lego building wasn't important. Although they do have some accessories for the SU-16 available.

The SU-16A is my favorite model, not because of the intergrated bi-pod, but because of the longer length barrel of 18.5".
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Old January 27, 2016, 05:11 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn E. Meyer
I saw one have its stock crack in half during a carbine class. YMMV.
I am sure many of us, have seen many issues ,with many brands while shooting, including complete breakdowns. I know I have.

There have been torture tests completed on this rifle before. Not to say that there will not be issues, and I am sure Kel-Tec will stand behind their product.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishbed77
Other than portability, I can't think of any respect in which an SU-16 is superior to a quality AR-15
I agree. Just depends on what people think of as a "quality" AR. If your talking about a $1,000 plus AR-15 then that is not comparing apples-to-apples. But for someone who is on a budget I would think this would fit the bill perfectly and be versatile with what is needed for protection, fun, and hunting.

Moving on.........

Last edited by silverbullet6oh; January 27, 2016 at 05:45 PM.
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Old January 27, 2016, 05:51 PM   #8
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To quote a famous you-tuber... it is all about the Philosophy of Use.

If you are going to be packing the weapon around a lot, in and out of confined spaces, strapping to a bug-out bag the SU-16 is a prime candidate! From that philosophy of use you have a strong leg to stand on!

If you are looking at building a 223 platform that you can customize/personalize... range out to longer distances... heavy duty reliability for a operator or competition weapon, the AR15 platform wins out.

As always in a comparison, the answer is to buy both and use them for different things

IMHO.
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Old January 27, 2016, 05:56 PM   #9
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I seriously looked at getting one instead of an AR as I much prefer a reciprocating bolt handle, but the fragility scared me off. The Mini is just too overpriced considering you need another $250 just to accurize it.

Then there's the VEPR 223, but the RPK action really moves that barrel around.
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Old January 27, 2016, 08:49 PM   #10
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Can't speak for a vepr

I can't speak for a vepr, however I have owned a Saiga 223 and it was a fine rifle. I eventually sold it and got the SU16 though, they shoot pretty similarly in accuracy but mags for it are hard to come by and expensive when you do ($40 per for the circle 10's) also it is a really heavy rifle as, from my understanding, they use the same barrel stock as the 7.62 but only reem it for 2.23 caliber. Nice for shooting from a bench, but who wants to do that with an AK?!
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Old January 27, 2016, 09:03 PM   #11
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KEL-TEC SU -16 over an AR15 !!! give me a break ... the AR is a better rifle in so many ways parts availability being one ...
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Old January 27, 2016, 09:11 PM   #12
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For the normal "Everyman" citizen the SU-16 does everything you'd want
Quote:
I saw one have its stock crack in half during a carbine class. YMMV.
Is the average citizen going to carbine classes? I'm not super impressed with KTs quality, including how the metal seems to wear on some of the guns I have seen, but for the average person who will likely not shoot a carbine classes worth of ammunition in the rifles lifetime, KT makes some incredible products. MOst people don't care about parts at all.
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Old January 28, 2016, 09:20 AM   #13
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I have both, overall I would take an AR but the SU 16 is my truck, camp, ATV and grab & go gun. I would like to see Kel Tec chamber that gun in 7.62 x 39, SU 47?
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Old January 28, 2016, 10:26 AM   #14
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"Extra butter, please."

If you add the LAW folding stock adapter the AR is just as portable. Mine is 25 1/2" long as it is, butt to muzzle.

If I'm hiking with an AR, I have it out, ready to use, no sling. Goes to Philosophy of Use.

By all means buy the SU and enjoy it. Be advised it would not survive the first two weeks in Basic Training, which does establish that an inexpensive gun that is known to fail doesn't add value for a consumer's reasons to purchase.

With AR's running under $500 assembled they are a better value. If someone doesn't like the AR, fine, but putting up "VS" arguments is really for their own peace of mind. A lot of us agreed at one point. We came to rethink it and now have one.
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Old January 28, 2016, 10:33 AM   #15
Glenn E. Meyer
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Standing behind your product is fine and dandy when you later send in the gun for repairs.

However, when you are standing in a cold rainy carbine class and your gun breaks in half, that's not relevant. Or if was in a real usage situation, that would not be an option to call customer support.

Luckily, the teacher had a loaner for the guy.

I have a gun or two that might be fun guns but I wouldn't trust for the emergency.
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Old January 28, 2016, 10:41 AM   #16
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Most people who own AR's just shoot paper from a rest. Hell I rarely see people at the range even shoot them offhand.

I get what you are saying about the "average" person.

IMO our community focuses too much on Battle Ready gear when 70% of us can't run a mile. Based on reality whatever rifle you buy will only shoot holes in paper.

If things get so bad that I need to carry around a battle rifle that can withstand months of abuse while I go around fighting I might just need one gun and one bullet.

Having said that the SU16 is a "novelty" gun and not a better battle rifle vs an AR that's made for that purpose.

All the same the novelty is attractive.
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Old January 28, 2016, 10:50 AM   #17
Glenn E. Meyer
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Your call. I'm not ok with a gun that just cracks in half in rather mild conditions of a class.
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Old January 28, 2016, 01:02 PM   #18
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Having said that the SU16 is a "novelty" gun and not a better battle rifle vs an AR that's made for that purpose.
I agree. They are more a "specialty" type gun than they are a regular use gun. I dont see them holding up long to any regular, day to day type use. They would probably work fine for a truck/boat/plane "behind the seat", "get me home" type gun thats used little but always there.

I had an SU 16 when they first came out. It is a novel idea, but my experience with Kel Tec has been about the same as Chrysler products, they have some cool ideas, but always seem to come up short in the execution.

My SU 16 was accurate enough. Reliability depended on the mags. It liked the Kel Tec mags, and Colt, and some GI mags, but it didnt like "all" the AR mags, and many would not function at all. The bolt would hang up on the top rear of some mags. Some would peel some metal off, and would work, others would not.

Other than the mag thing, my only real complaints were, it was a little long in the stock, but thats more a personal problem I guess. They need to find a better way to store the pin what locks the rifle open when its folded. As it is stored now, its sure to be lost bouncing around in a trunk or behind a seat, etc. or for that matter, just in handling it. It would also be nice to have a sling attachment point or swivel. The peep sight needed a storage place, and was sure to be lost if you didnt have it on the gun.
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Old January 28, 2016, 03:23 PM   #19
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If you are going to carry it more than you shoot it and ease of carry is a top priority, the SU-16 might serve your needs.

In just about every other conceivable category, I prefer the AR15. The last AR I built was $440 (Anderson lower and PSA kit). So AR wins on price, accuracy, reliability, service life, knowledge base, aftermarket parts, etc.
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Old January 28, 2016, 03:39 PM   #20
johnwilliamson062
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IMO our community focuses too much on Battle Ready gear when 70% of us can't run a mile.
Does downhill count?

Quote:
If you are going to carry it more than you shoot it and ease of carry is a top priority, the SU-16 might serve your needs.
I'd go farther and say if you are going to leave it inside a $10 plano rifle case in your closet for years at a time, the SU-16 might serve your needs.

Quote:
If you add the LAW folding stock adapter the AR is just as portable.
You made this statement understanding Brownell's sells that accessory for $250, correct? We aren't exactly comparing the KT to a $500 AR, are we?

Quote:
I had an SU 16 when they first came out. It is a novel idea, but my experience with Kel Tec has been about the same as Chrysler products, they have some cool ideas, but always seem to come up short in the execution.
That is an impressively accurate comparison IMO. I've often wished KT would license some of their products to other manufacturers.

I hope to buy one of their SU-22s at some point in the future.

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Old January 28, 2016, 03:57 PM   #21
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I'm sure I'm the minority, but I absolutely prefer an SU-16 over an AR-15.
I'm sure too.
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Old January 28, 2016, 11:59 PM   #22
RoyalWe
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In all practical purposes

Let's be serious, the AR is a military platform designed to perform under the conditions encountered on the battlefield (and it handles these conditions rather poorly I might add) but the average citizen will never have to employ their firearm in the manners the AR I'd designed for unless they intentionally cause them. As for stocks cracking, I've seen more M4's with broken adjustable stocks than I care to mention, and it was often just from being dropped one too many times. As for a lack of parts, get spares of the the fragile ones and be mindful and it'll last longer than it should anyway. And most of all, I love how it doesn't take after market parts easily. Too many people load up and weigh down their rifles simply because they had an empty rail on the gun. I mean, the SU-16, or a $500 factory AR, I'd take the SU-16. Sure you can build one, if you want to take the risk. I can't recall a single time on a busy day at the range where I haven't seen at least one person with AR that wouldn't function or cycle properly.
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Old January 29, 2016, 12:11 AM   #23
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cR8VIxhWbzY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbGD1dYNV-c

Cool gun though.
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Old January 29, 2016, 12:26 AM   #24
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WOW
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Old January 29, 2016, 12:42 AM   #25
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Evil Monkey, that's nothing gorilla tape and JB weld can't fix.
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