Help me decide: Round in the chamber or not when storing HD shotgun?

[ezmiraldo]

Hey all!

I've been thinking about this issue a lot, and can't seem to make up my mind (although I'm starting to lean toward putting a round into the chamber). I'm currently keeping my mossberg 500 with safety on, chamber empty for HD.

Here are some advantages of both methods (advantage for one method can be viewed as a disadvantage for the other), based on my thinking and based on the bits of info I've picked up here and there:

round in the chamber

• loss of dexterity doesn't affect one's ability to quickly (1) press slide release button and (2) work the pump (because one doesn't need to work the pump to chamber the first round)
• one is able to bring weapon into action faster
• one has got one extra round inside the gun
• no making noise (or giving a target indicator) before verbally confronting and/or engaging BG -- one has a "surprise factor" on their side

chamber empty

• if gun falls vertically on the muzzle (very unlikely possibility), there's no risk of round going off, sincere there's no firing pin block saftey (even if it goes off, only floor is damaged?)
• noise of racking the slide might scare off some (but not all) BGs without one having to take life or seriously injure BG
• if BG is robbing one's house & has your gun in possession, if you come home during robbery, BG will take longer to make gun operable, which gives you time to escape, attack, or fight for your gun
• it is safer if one has kids and gun isn't completely secured when kids are in the house
• mas ayoob, radon tactical instructor, police departments, and other experts recommend having chamber empty during storage (one of the arguments used, which I don't necessarily buy, is this: if one isn't competent enough to press slide release and chamber a round under stress, one isn't competent enough to use a shotgun for HD; I think knowing how to do this is one thing, but doing it under tremendous stress and quickly is another; another argument is that shotgun isn't a "reactive" tool like one's CCW, and one inherently has more time when shotgun must be put into action -- that argument seems better, but is still flawed, imho)

Are there any other advantages/disadvantages to each method that I'm not aware of? Also, what's your practice and why is it your practice?

[DSA270]

Always empty in my opinion. Ammo stored separately. Too many injuries and deaths from careless miss use of firearms as around the world.

[bamaranger]

Leaving loaded firearms about , fully loaded, but unattended or unsecured, , is always an invitation to possible trouble.

You may have confidence in you and yours, but friends, friends kids, etc, who knows?

[FITASC]

Full mag, hammer down on an empty chamber; shotguns are NOT very drop proof, so safety first.

[Virginian]

Locked and loaded. Been working for 67 years, ain't likely to change now.

[Bake]

"I'm currently keeping my mossberg 500 with safety on, chamber empty for HD."

Why put the safety "on" with an empty/unloaded shotgun?

If your shotgun was a Winchester Model 97, of course I would store it with one in the chamber, the hammer down, and the safety "OFF".

All others, full mag, chamber empty, and the safety "off".

[Dreaming100Straight]

If you store it as FITASC says, with the hammer down on an empty chamber, there is no need to depress the slide release to chamber a round. I keep it like that and safety on. I don't have to worry about small children. If I had any it would be locked.

I read too many posts about how one doesn't need a safety if they practice and know their gun. Those people forget that the kids or house guests may not know guns.

[Snyper]

Those people forget that the kids or house guests may not know guns.

That won't matter if the gun is properly stored

Round in the chamber or not when storing HD shotgun?

A round in the chamber is a seperate issue, and I personally think it's foolish to keep a "HD" gun unloaded

That doesn't mean it's propped in the corner where just anyone has access

[Blindstitch]

If it's for home defense it only makes sense to have it ready to roll.

I don't keep a defense shotgun but I can tell you if you have kids teach them well. At my parents the rule is a gun is always loaded unless you just shot it 5-7 times and then it's still loaded. Never do I treat guns as if they are unloaded and it even makes me feel a bit weird in the stores like Cabelas with people pointing guns in each direction.

If it was me and my 500 it would be loaded and safety on. If it makes you feel better don't push it all the way forward and you still have an extra shell ready to go.

[TXAZ]

+1 for empty chamber, safety on.
As said above, safety must be a consideration when kids / others are around and the threat is not.

[Theohazard]

Originally Posted by DSA270

Always empty in my opinion. Ammo stored separately. Too many injuries and deaths from careless miss use of firearms as around the world.

Wait, what? Is this a joke or a troll post? What in the world is the purpose of having a firearm for home defense if it's kept unloaded with the ammo stored separately? In most HD situations you honestly think you'll have plenty of time to retrieve your gun, then move to your separate location to get the ammo, then load each round into the mag, all while waking your family and calling the police? That's a terrible idea.

If you can't manage to properly secure an HD firearm that at least has a loaded magazine, then you're probably better off not owning a firearm at all.

[Justice06RR]

Chamber loaded, safety on, muzzle down, and properly secured if there are children in your home.

In a real HD scenario where seconds count and you're mind may not always be alert (i.e. just waking up in the night), your weapon needs to be ready to go to eliminate all human-induced errors.

[FITASC]

eliminate all human-induced errors.

and if it is stored in a corner by the bed, then grabbing it in a half coma and having it slip and butt hit the floor possibly making it go off is unwise. Lots of folks here talk about how they can rack their gun faster than their friend shooting a semi. Here's the time for that ability to really shine. With the hammer down on an empty chamber, all one needs to do is grab, rack, point and shoot.

[natman]

Mag full, chamber empty, hammer down, safety on.

Pick it up, rack it and go.

Leaving a shotgun with a round in the chamber 24/7 for years on end is sending Murphy an engraved invitation.

[Pahoo]

In the middle of the night, mother is screaming that there is a bad guy in the house. You are trying to put your pants on with one hand and fumbling for the shotgun with the other. Things can get pretty confusing. One thing that may be forgotten is if your chamber is loaded or empty. Hopefully most of your other firearms are empty, predictable and "consistent" .....

Murphy's Law is always waiting to tap you on the shoulder. .....

Be Safe !!!

[Dreaming100Straight]

If it's for home defense it only makes sense to have it ready to roll.

Are you saying that a single parent with 7 children, who's ages range from 3 to 7 years, should keep their pump with a round chambered and the safety off?

I don't keep a defense shotgun but I can tell you if you have kids teach them well. At my parents the rule is a gun is always loaded unless you just shot it 5-7 times and then it's still loaded. Never do I treat guns as if they are unloaded and it even makes me feel a bit weird in the stores like Cabelas with people pointing guns in each direction.

Regardless of how well young children are taught, I would never rely on them not to act, at least on occasion, like little kids. Especially when, as you noted, how stupidly adults act in a place like Cabelas. Then again, you have to be concerned with the neighbor's kids and peer pressure.

If it was me and my 500 it would be loaded and safety on. If it makes you feel better don't push it all the way forward and you still have an extra shell ready to go.

Unless you are very careful picking that gun up, the slide will close defeating the purpose of keeping a round unchambered AND you will make noise when you may want to remain quiet. You are also inviting something to fall into the open breech port that could cause a jamb. For that matter, the shell on the lifter might fall askew and jamb it all up. That or it is even possible that the round falls out of the port, you close it thinking that you now have a round chambered, and when you pull the trigger all you hear is a click.

It's all a matter of probabilities. Everyone needs to consider their circumstances and weigh the risks of how they store firearms against the risk of instantly needing one for home defense. Individuals have to judge how wise it is to expect little kids not to behave like little kids (especially when friends are over) while considering the likelihood that the need for self defense will arise in a scenario in which they don't have time to fully load or unlock a weapon. That and all the other possible causes of accidental discharges (dropping a gun, catching a trigger on a coat hanger. etc.)

[TomADC]

I've been doing the empty chamber, safety on for the last 45 years since we've been in this house, my thought process way back when was, I have to make a couple of concise actions to get this thing going, I've always felt to to this I have to be fulling awake not half asleep. I still keep mine this way.

[MoGas1341]

My opinion definitely depends on whether or not there are children in the house and where you are physically storing the shotgun i.e under the bed, behind the door etc.

One option that I like to point out, if you're going to leave it chambered, is to put a wall mount up over your bedroom door or inside your closet door. It keeps it out of the way, and out of sight to anyone entering the room, and keeps it easily accessible. I mean seriously, who walks through a door then looks over their shoulder and above the door frame of the room they just entered?! If put inside your closet and over the door, not even guests or their kids should have any reason to go into your closet, let alone if they do they probably still wouldn't notice the gun above the doorframe as stated earlier, and its out of reach of the kids.

The second option, is like many said, leave it unchambered. It takes only a split second to rack one in the pipe, and severely helps negate the possibility of a negligent discharge.

[g.willikers]

My vote:
Mag tube full, chamber empty and safety off.
Unless there's a danger of racking the slide with finger on the trigger.
Then safety on.

[TimSr]

Chambered round is very bad idea, and very dangerous. Your firing pin is cocked back, spring loaded, and ready to drop, and can easily do so without ever touching the trigger. The safety only disables the trigger. Its about as safe as storing a single action revolver with the hammer all the way cocked.

If you have kids, the only loaded gun you should every have in the house, even unchambered, is one that is locked in a quick access combination case, which most cases holding long guns don't have. It is impossible to safely hide anything from normal kids, including keys to the gun cabinet.

[Snyper]

Everyone is totally ignoring the word "stored" in the OP

He's not going to load it and then leave it on the kitchen table

Those who keep bringing up "dropping and firing", how many times in your life have you seen that happen?

We can all construct fantasy scenarios to fit our stance, but some are just silly

[ezmiraldo]

I think I'm now more confused than before

In all seriousness... Why won't shotgun manufacturers just install the damn firing pin block (standard on all modern pistols), to make it drop safe?! That, plus having a quick-access pass-code or biometric safe would sway most folks here to putting round into the chamber and living happy lives! Are manufacturers actually trying to make shotgun design obsolete, and discourage ownership of shotguns for HD?

I guess I have more thinking to do. Given the variety of opinions on this, has anyone actually call Mossberg, and ask what their tech people recommend regarding this storage issue: Chamber empty or full? They should at least know if 500s are drop safe or not... Of course, they would have no idea about other individual factors like having kids around, having a safe, one's storage SOPs, having visitors, etc....

[Waspinator]

I have a Mossberg 500 and it is set-up for HD (have sporting barrel as well). I had originally bought it as a HD gun and it was my first firearm.

But, truthfully... it really isn't a viable HD gun in my opinion.
Reasons as follows:

I have three children in the house.
Which means I can not leave it out.
Has anyone with kids ever woke up in the middle of the night to their kids standing next to the bed due to a bad dream or something? I have and it would make me nervous having a gun out next to the bed at night.

Don't give me that "train your kids" line either. Kids will be kids and they are curious. No matter how many times you tell them not to do something, there is no guarantee they will not do it (I have a scar on my hand from touching the lawn mower muffler.. after my dad told me not to touch it several times).

So, I ended up having to put the shotgun in a small 5-gun safe in my master closet in order for me to sleep at night. That's the thing, I wasn't losing sleep over someone getting in my house and having to deploy a HD firearm. I was losing sleep over someone in my house with little hands getting a hold of the gun instead. So, now my big cannon is across the room, in the closet and in the safe that requires a multi-digit code to get at. Not so great for a fast deploying HD gun, huh?

Ever fire a shotgun in the dark, indoors? I have. This was at the 12 lane firing lane I go to, they also do training there as well. They were doing low light/no light training with mounted lights and false walls set up on the range. Between the bright flash and huge noise (even with wearing ears), it was really disorienting. I would not want to roll out of bed and fire that cannon in the middle of the night in my house.

Now, I just use my EDC snub as a bedside HD gun. It sits in an easy to get at and fast deploying pistol safe on the side of my bed. The gun is secure from little hands, yet easy to get to and more manageable if it had to be brought into play in a HD scenario.

So, for me.. being a parent of small children...the Shotgun became a range toy. Only time I could see it come into play as a self defense firearm, would be if it was a SHTF scenario where I had forewarning. Basically a "don't come into my Castle and move along" firearm.

[FITASC]

Everyone is totally ignoring the word "stored" in the OP

He's not going to load it and then leave it on the kitchen table

Those who keep bringing up "dropping and firing", how many times in your life have you seen that happen?

Then WHERE is it being stored? In a rack in a closet, then it doesn't matter. Storing it standing up and between the bed and nightstand? Not so good.

And yes, I have seen it happen, once was enough; and not worth the risk to leave a round in the chamber.

[Blindstitch]

Yeah can you explain the STORED to us?

The way I store something vs how you do could be miles apart. It could range from two pegs on the wall to the intro of Get Smart.