The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: Semi-automatics

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old January 6, 2016, 01:52 AM   #1
Ignition Override
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 18, 2008
Location: About 20 nm from the Big Muddy
Posts: 2,884
Is a basic Saiga .223 worth post-ban prices?

We are in west TN.
This question-from my perspective-only concerns those with the original smaller magazines, which were Not converted to the preferred config.

I've been really happy with my semi-auto rifles: a pair of M-1 Garands and pair of Yugo M59 SKS.

For the long-term, ARs don't interest me and the appeal of a .223 produced by Kalashnikov has more appeal than a Mini 14 (had one).
The possible objective is to spot a very used Saiga .223 at a Really discounted price, for a FTF deal in west TN.

I have no interest in converting any rifle or handgun.

Last edited by Ignition Override; January 7, 2016 at 03:45 AM.
Ignition Override is offline  
Old January 6, 2016, 02:10 AM   #2
chris in va
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 26, 2004
Location: Louisville KY
Posts: 13,804
I had a Saiga, converted it myself.

Look at it this way. It's an AK, not known for accuracy even if you spring for the awkward scope mounts. I really don't see a Saiga being any better than your Mini, and frankly having owned a Saiga I would much rather have a newer Mini.

IMO of course.

Also, on the flip side if you can get it at a really good price, say $250, it might be somewhat of an investment.
chris in va is offline  
Old January 6, 2016, 04:08 AM   #3
Jimro
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 18, 2006
Posts: 7,097
The post ban 223 Saiga makes sense if you live in a non-free state where the post ban configuration gives you some legal leeway.

That being said, if you want a semi-auto 223, an AR is a better platform. Of course some states make it harder than others to own an AR-15.

But if you just want a plinking rifle or handy truck gun, the Saiga rifles are pretty good for that role.

Jimro
__________________
Machine guns are awesome until you have to carry one.
Jimro is offline  
Old January 6, 2016, 06:34 AM   #4
kcub
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 24, 2010
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 3,318
I have a tricked out Saiga 308 that I like because it loves cheapass steel cased ammo. That's a benefit to having a Russian made weapon.
kcub is offline  
Old January 6, 2016, 10:57 PM   #5
Mike38
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 28, 2009
Location: North Central Illinois
Posts: 2,704
Quote:
This question-from my perspective-only concerns those with the original smaller magazines, which were Not converted to the preferred config.

I've been really happy with my semi-auto rifles: a pair of M-1 Garands and pair of Yugo M59 SKS.

For the long-term, ARs don't interest me and the appeal of a .223 produced by Kalashnikov has more appeal than a Mini 14 (had one).
The possible objective is to spot a very used Saiga .223 at a Really discounted price, for a FTF deal in west TN.
What is a Saiga 223 going for now-a-days? I bought one about 3 years ago for $400. Really like it. It's not what would be considered accurate, but mine will hold "minute of man" at 300 yards. That's about all that can be expected out of them. Eats any and all ammo I feed it.

Your words "very used" is cause for concern though.
Mike38 is offline  
Old January 7, 2016, 12:05 AM   #6
Onward Allusion
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 17, 2009
Location: Back in a Non-Free State
Posts: 3,133
Quote:
Is a basic Saiga .223 worth post-ban prices?
No. I have 2 of the 7.62x39's and they are what they are . . . AK's. Good rough & tumble guns for mid-range.

For what they are going for these days (just because they can't be imported), I'd get a very decent AR.
__________________
Simple as ABC . . . Always Be Carrying
Onward Allusion is offline  
Old January 7, 2016, 03:54 AM   #7
Ignition Override
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 18, 2008
Location: About 20 nm from the Big Muddy
Posts: 2,884
Mike38:
The suggestion of evaluating a well-used Saiga, in terms of external wear, is only because the various sellers' initial asking prices, or all of the highest bids for 'nib' Saiga .223s on GB (to me) are ludicrous.
I appreciate your questioning the factor of possible wear.

I'm 60, was only bitten by the gun bug at age 52, and might buy "just one more" semi-auto .223 rifle before retirement, but mostly before Hillary's possible win in the election.
There is no interest in converting any gun, or paying extra for any gun which was converted.

Last edited by Ignition Override; January 7, 2016 at 03:59 AM.
Ignition Override is offline  
Old January 7, 2016, 04:51 AM   #8
silvermane_1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 6, 2011
Location: Burien,WA
Posts: 897
well Ignition Overdrive, i say buy the Saiga, they may not be the most accurate 223/5.56, but they do have the AK reliability and AK simplicity though, which is a valuable asset in it self.
__________________
Rugers:SR1911 CMD,MK 3 .22lr 6",Sec. Six '76 liberty .357 4",SRH .480 Ruger 7.5",Mini-14 188 5.56/.233 18.5", Marlins: 795 .22lr 16.5",30aw 30-30 20",Mossberg:Mav. 88 Tact. 12 ga, 18.5",ATR 100 .270 Win. 22",S&W:SW9VE
9mm 4",Springfield:XD .357sig 4", AKs:CAI PSL-54C, WASR 10/63, WW74,SLR-106c
silvermane_1 is offline  
Old January 7, 2016, 05:19 AM   #9
Justice06RR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 21, 2010
Location: Central FL
Posts: 1,360
IMO Its only worth it if you can get the Saiga for $500 or less. If you are going to pay more than that, then an AR15 is a better investment.
Justice06RR is offline  
Old January 7, 2016, 07:07 AM   #10
Targa
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 20, 2014
Posts: 2,083
Worth it or not, good luck finding one.
Targa is offline  
Old January 7, 2016, 07:09 AM   #11
amd6547
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2,313
There will be AR's until they are banned. There will be no more Saiga's, ever.
__________________
The past is gone...the future may never happen.
Be Here Now.
amd6547 is offline  
Old January 8, 2016, 06:06 AM   #12
kcub
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 24, 2010
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 3,318
From the OP it sounds like you want a 223/556 that's not an AR but you never mention what you are willing to spend.

My favorite least costly semi auto 223/556 that is not an AR is my Daewoo DR200. There are aftermarket stocks if you don't like the thumbhole stock, mine has an Ace. It's one damned good rifle. Glancing at gunbroker people are asking just over a grand. They are worth that. It is more fun to shoot than my Bushmaster AR.
kcub is offline  
Old January 8, 2016, 06:15 AM   #13
silvermane_1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 6, 2011
Location: Burien,WA
Posts: 897
Quote:
There will be AR's until they are banned. There will be no more Saiga's, ever.
^amd6547 makes a very valid and convincing argument right here Ignition Overdrive, there will not be anymore Saigas being imported.

Quote:
Your words "very used" is cause for concern though.
^Mike38 makes an interested point, however i would trust a "very used" Saiga over any "very used" AR any day of the week, and twice on sunday .
__________________
Rugers:SR1911 CMD,MK 3 .22lr 6",Sec. Six '76 liberty .357 4",SRH .480 Ruger 7.5",Mini-14 188 5.56/.233 18.5", Marlins: 795 .22lr 16.5",30aw 30-30 20",Mossberg:Mav. 88 Tact. 12 ga, 18.5",ATR 100 .270 Win. 22",S&W:SW9VE
9mm 4",Springfield:XD .357sig 4", AKs:CAI PSL-54C, WASR 10/63, WW74,SLR-106c

Last edited by silvermane_1; January 8, 2016 at 06:21 AM.
silvermane_1 is offline  
Old January 8, 2016, 12:59 PM   #14
Targa
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 20, 2014
Posts: 2,083
I don't know about never seeing them again, we just need a common sense president in office to repeal the ban, granted getting a common sense president in office is a bit of a stretch.
Targa is offline  
Old January 8, 2016, 04:18 PM   #15
Cornhusker77
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 25, 2009
Posts: 219
I like my Saiga .223
Not a fan of pistol grip rifles although I do own a few.
Mine is a good truck gun, and with the scope on it, it's accurate enough.
The steel cased ammo point is a good one too
Cornhusker77 is offline  
Old January 8, 2016, 05:13 PM   #16
Quentin2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 18, 2009
Location: NorthWest USA
Posts: 1,996
Can you expand a bit your aversion to the AR? Honestly, it's very hard for any semiauto rifle to beat an entry level AR-15 in 5.56/.223 at that price point. They are cheaper than a Mini-14 and not much more than a Saiga/AK but offer high reliability, accuracy and upgradability.
Quentin2 is offline  
Old January 9, 2016, 03:03 AM   #17
silvermane_1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 6, 2011
Location: Burien,WA
Posts: 897
Quote:
Can you expand a bit your aversion to the AR? Honestly, it's very hard for any semiauto rifle to beat an entry level AR-15 in 5.56/.223 at that price point. They are cheaper than a Mini-14 and not much more than a Saiga/AK but offer high reliability, accuracy and upgradability.
^Quentin2, is your post "aimed" at me or Ignition Override?
__________________
Rugers:SR1911 CMD,MK 3 .22lr 6",Sec. Six '76 liberty .357 4",SRH .480 Ruger 7.5",Mini-14 188 5.56/.233 18.5", Marlins: 795 .22lr 16.5",30aw 30-30 20",Mossberg:Mav. 88 Tact. 12 ga, 18.5",ATR 100 .270 Win. 22",S&W:SW9VE
9mm 4",Springfield:XD .357sig 4", AKs:CAI PSL-54C, WASR 10/63, WW74,SLR-106c
silvermane_1 is offline  
Old January 11, 2016, 12:26 PM   #18
DMK
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 18, 2001
Location: Over the hills and far, far away
Posts: 3,206
Quote:
I had a Saiga, converted it myself.

Look at it this way. It's an AK, not known for accuracy even if you spring for the awkward scope mounts. I really don't see a Saiga being any better than your Mini, and frankly having owned a Saiga I would much rather have a newer Mini.
Quote:
I have a tricked out Saiga 308 that I like because it loves cheapass steel cased ammo. That's a benefit to having a Russian made weapon.
I converted my 5.56 Saiga last year after owning it a few years. It's still a work in progress, but I love this gun and actually prefer shooting it to the AR-15. This is coming from a guy that has long owned 8 ARs in four different calibers.

The AK may be not quite as accurate as the AR, but it is so much more robust and much simpler in operation and maintenance. It's more compact as well.

With a good quality optics mount like the RS Regulate siderail mount, you can mount a red dot or magnified optic on there and do nearly anything one needs to with a 16" 5.56 carbine.

__________________
- Homeland Security begins at home: Support your Second Amendment -
www.gunowners.org - www.saf.org - act.nraila.org - www.grnc.org
DMK is offline  
Old January 17, 2016, 12:40 AM   #19
Ignition Override
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 18, 2008
Location: About 20 nm from the Big Muddy
Posts: 2,884
DMK:
That's a very appealing gun.

Has Kalashnikov USA made firm plans to start producing the sporterized Saiga rifles in 5.56 and 7.62x39?

Last edited by Ignition Override; January 19, 2016 at 10:18 PM.
Ignition Override is offline  
Old January 17, 2016, 11:15 AM   #20
DMK
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 18, 2001
Location: Over the hills and far, far away
Posts: 3,206
Thanks Ignition Override! It definitely appeals to me!

As I said in the other forum (and for the benefit of other readers), it's my understanding that Kalashnikov USA has no affiliation with the Russian Companies such as Izhevsk, Izhmash, Kalashnikov Concern, or Molot-Oruzhie that produce Saigas, Veprs, etc.

http://rbth.com/news/2015/07/13/kala..._us_47717.html


The US company is deceiving customers with their name. They may make a great rifle (or not) but it's not a great way to start a reputation.
__________________
- Homeland Security begins at home: Support your Second Amendment -
www.gunowners.org - www.saf.org - act.nraila.org - www.grnc.org
DMK is offline  
Old January 19, 2016, 10:27 PM   #21
Ignition Override
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 18, 2008
Location: About 20 nm from the Big Muddy
Posts: 2,884
DMK: Thanks for the clarifications. Unlike many of you guys/gals, my guns are never modified.

It's mostly because nearly every one is a milsurp (Garands, unique Yugo SKS etc), all of which were bought because they were all original, and as for modern rifles, quite frankly I'm too lazy or afraid of making a mistake. Not too swift for age 60.
Ignition Override is offline  
Old January 31, 2016, 04:27 AM   #22
Ignition Override
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 18, 2008
Location: About 20 nm from the Big Muddy
Posts: 2,884
Quentin2:
It's nothing against the ARs.
For two years I've had "immed. access" to a friend's Colt AR, all day long (he never uses it), but haven't even touched it. Despite the many excellent features and better ergos than many rifles, it doesn't 'grab' me, as they used to say.

As for basic Saiga .223s from the box, just read that the action has no feed ramp.
Is this lack of a feed ramp ever known to be an issue using original Russian 10-rd. factory magazines?
Ignition Override is offline  
Old January 31, 2016, 10:15 AM   #23
amd6547
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2,313
It's not a "feed ramp", it's a bullet guide.
In the case of my Saiga 5.45, my rifle not only fed and functioned with the OEM Saiga 10rd mags, it worked just as well with surplus polymer mags.
When I did the conversion, which was simple, I did install the bullet guide.
Feeding seemed markedly smoother.
__________________
The past is gone...the future may never happen.
Be Here Now.
amd6547 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.11976 seconds with 10 queries