1860 CVA Brass Frame .44 Kit HELP

TATER · January 25, 2012, 05:28 PM

I recently rediscovered an old 1860 .44 Brass frame CVA kit that I received back in the 80's.
I have completed the assembly and started to polish and mate everything and a huge hole has opened up in the frame. The rear
right side is structurally gone

Is there any way I can replace this as a Part? Dose anyone have a resource
For such parts I could contact.. I have no preference it could be a steel frame as well.

Thanks
Tater

Hawg · January 25, 2012, 06:12 PM

You'll need to know who actually made it. Either ASM or Pietta. My guess is ASM with workmanship that shoddy. You can probably fit a frame from another manufacturer but it won't be a bolt up deal. Go with steel.

Hellgate · January 25, 2012, 07:33 PM

You could machine the whole side off if you wanted and it would be like a J H Dance revolver. see pic.

bedbugbilly · January 25, 2012, 07:37 PM

This sounds like a project for Doc!

Hawg · January 25, 2012, 07:52 PM

Except that it's a brass frame.

arcticap · January 26, 2012, 02:10 AM

All of the CVA parts were purchased by Deer Creek Products of Waldron, Indiana telephone 765-525-6181.
But they won't have a replacement frame.
If you can, post a photo of the hole that opened up.
If the arbor is tight then the hole may not cause any functional problem at all.
There's also a "steel washer" fix where a thin rimmed steel bushing can be fitted and inserted into the recoil shield at the back of the frame.
That helps to prevent the brass frame from being batter by the cylinder during the recoil of firing.
Read posts #5 & #6 in the thread below describing how to install the washer. The poster named "rifle" is also a member of thefiringline and can be asked for advice by sending him a PM.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthrea...+shield+washer

Doc Hoy · January 26, 2012, 06:34 AM

....that Deer Creek is all but out of business.

In large part they ran out of ASM parts over the last coupla years. They now have very little in that way. Some screws maybe.

It seems like a mom and pop operation and mom and pop are both getting up in years.

Long time to get to the phone. Un-answered calls, No messages returned, etc.

Darned shame because they were good folks to deal with. Knowledgable and friendly.

I would be happy to learn they are healed and back in business for real.

I have two of these revolvers and I like them. It is worth some effort fixing but not worth the cost and hassle of a new frame. Darned hard to come up with a new frame. I have a coupla brass ones but I doubt they would fit an ASM.

We do need a photo.

Dependng upon where the hole is and how big, you could drill it, thread it, turn a brass crew into it and then round it off. The repair would be detectable on close inspection but not obvious to the casual observer.

Another caution here is that if the hole intrudes into an operating channel in the frame, the screw that is used for the repair will need to be short enough not to get in the way of the operating parts. I am thinking primarily of the hand channel.

Finally if the hole compromises the strength of the frame, you might try silver soldering the screw in place. Absolute cleanliness of the surfaces in essential for good solder wetting.

This has the parallel advantages of added strength and a less obvious repair.

Doc Hoy · January 26, 2012, 06:50 AM

The tap drill index will show three different size twist drills for the hole you will be tapping.

Use the smallest size drill for several reasons:

1) Smaller hole is less intrusive in the strength of the frame.

2) Screw will remain in place better in a smaller hole.

3) Repair will be less detectable with a smaller hole.

TATER · January 26, 2012, 11:53 AM

Here is an illustration of the problem. The Orange dots represent the opening, The Green Area is the
Void found by probing the holes. Note the two smaller ones open up and show up in the threads about half way in.
The frame is garbage, I just thought I could salvage the rest if I could find a frame… Thanks Guys.

Doc Hoy · January 26, 2012, 12:39 PM

Whoa!

Much worse than I thought.

Sell it for parts.

Doc Hoy · January 26, 2012, 12:47 PM

I just checked my parts and I have two brass frames for Colt .44 in good condition.

One is ASM and the other is of unknown origin but probably Pietta. They are visibly different.

If you are interested in getting a frame and fixing this pistol, send me a PM.

OR

If you want to sell the pistol as is, also send a PM.

Doc Hoy · January 26, 2012, 12:52 PM

Just got off the phone with Deer Creek. They are back in business full swing.

They have a frame for 55.00.

A young gentleman answered the phone on the third ring.

I was very wrong about these folks. I am not happy to have made the mistake but I am happy to find it was a mistake.

TATER · January 26, 2012, 03:33 PM

Doc, PM in bound.

arcticap · January 28, 2012, 01:48 AM

I'm amazed that Deer Creek had an ASM frame available.

Doc Hoy · January 28, 2012, 05:51 AM

....that it is an ASM frame. I think it is likely one which they have determined will fit.

There are an awful lot of ASM pistols around. I think there might be a fair market for internals but I don't know about frames.

I should also have have asked if they had a steel frame which would fit. But I did not think fast enough.

The shop is only open Monday through Thursday.

So they may still be operating on a shoe string but I would hate to try to make a living selling parts for BP weapons alone.

January 25, 2012, 05:28 PM	#1
TATER Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2002 Location: Mississippi Posts: 963	1860 CVA Brass Frame .44 Kit HELP I recently rediscovered an old 1860 .44 Brass frame CVA kit that I received back in the 80's. I have completed the assembly and started to polish and mate everything and a huge hole has opened up in the frame. The rear right side is structurally gone Is there any way I can replace this as a Part? Dose anyone have a resource For such parts I could contact.. I have no preference it could be a steel frame as well. Thanks Tater

January 25, 2012, 07:37 PM	#4
bedbugbilly Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Posts: 3,287	This sounds like a project for Doc! __________________ If a pair of '51 Navies were good enough for Billy Hickok, then a single Navy on my right hip is good enough for me . . . besides . . . I'm probably only half as good as he was anyways. Hiram's Rangers Badge #63

January 26, 2012, 06:34 AM	#7
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	It is probably ASM. I think.... ....that Deer Creek is all but out of business. In large part they ran out of ASM parts over the last coupla years. They now have very little in that way. Some screws maybe. It seems like a mom and pop operation and mom and pop are both getting up in years. Long time to get to the phone. Un-answered calls, No messages returned, etc. Darned shame because they were good folks to deal with. Knowledgable and friendly. I would be happy to learn they are healed and back in business for real. I have two of these revolvers and I like them. It is worth some effort fixing but not worth the cost and hassle of a new frame. Darned hard to come up with a new frame. I have a coupla brass ones but I doubt they would fit an ASM. We do need a photo. Dependng upon where the hole is and how big, you could drill it, thread it, turn a brass crew into it and then round it off. The repair would be detectable on close inspection but not obvious to the casual observer. Another caution here is that if the hole intrudes into an operating channel in the frame, the screw that is used for the repair will need to be short enough not to get in the way of the operating parts. I am thinking primarily of the hand channel. Finally if the hole compromises the strength of the frame, you might try silver soldering the screw in place. Absolute cleanliness of the surfaces in essential for good solder wetting. This has the parallel advantages of added strength and a less obvious repair. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

January 26, 2012, 06:50 AM	#8
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Some additional thoughts The tap drill index will show three different size twist drills for the hole you will be tapping. Use the smallest size drill for several reasons: 1) Smaller hole is less intrusive in the strength of the frame. 2) Screw will remain in place better in a smaller hole. 3) Repair will be less detectable with a smaller hole. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

January 26, 2012, 12:39 PM	#10
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Tater Whoa! Much worse than I thought. Sell it for parts. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

January 25, 2012, 06:12 PM	#2
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	You'll need to know who actually made it. Either ASM or Pietta. My guess is ASM with workmanship that shoddy. You can probably fit a frame from another manufacturer but it won't be a bolt up deal. Go with steel.

January 25, 2012, 07:52 PM	#5
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	Except that it's a brass frame.

January 26, 2012, 02:10 AM	#6
arcticap Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2005 Location: Central Connecticut Posts: 3,166	Fix it with a steel bushing All of the CVA parts were purchased by Deer Creek Products of Waldron, Indiana telephone 765-525-6181. But they won't have a replacement frame. If you can, post a photo of the hole that opened up. If the arbor is tight then the hole may not cause any functional problem at all. There's also a "steel washer" fix where a thin rimmed steel bushing can be fitted and inserted into the recoil shield at the back of the frame. That helps to prevent the brass frame from being batter by the cylinder during the recoil of firing. Read posts #5 & #6 in the thread below describing how to install the washer. The poster named "rifle" is also a member of thefiringline and can be asked for advice by sending him a PM. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthrea...+shield+washer Last edited by arcticap; January 26, 2012 at 02:20 AM.

January 26, 2012, 11:53 AM	#9
TATER Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2002 Location: Mississippi Posts: 963	Here is an illustration of the problem. The Orange dots represent the opening, The Green Area is the Void found by probing the holes. Note the two smaller ones open up and show up in the threads about half way in. The frame is garbage, I just thought I could salvage the rest if I could find a frame… Thanks Guys.

January 26, 2012, 12:47 PM	#11
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Tater I just checked my parts and I have two brass frames for Colt .44 in good condition. One is ASM and the other is of unknown origin but probably Pietta. They are visibly different. If you are interested in getting a frame and fixing this pistol, send me a PM. OR If you want to sell the pistol as is, also send a PM. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

January 26, 2012, 12:52 PM	#12
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	News Flash!!!!!! Just got off the phone with Deer Creek. They are back in business full swing. They have a frame for 55.00. A young gentleman answered the phone on the third ring. I was very wrong about these folks. I am not happy to have made the mistake but I am happy to find it was a mistake. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

January 26, 2012, 03:33 PM	#13
TATER Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2002 Location: Mississippi Posts: 963	Doc, PM in bound.

January 28, 2012, 01:48 AM	#14
arcticap Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2005 Location: Central Connecticut Posts: 3,166	I'm amazed that Deer Creek had an ASM frame available.

January 28, 2012, 05:51 AM	#15
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	I doubt..... ....that it is an ASM frame. I think it is likely one which they have determined will fit. There are an awful lot of ASM pistols around. I think there might be a fair market for internals but I don't know about frames. I should also have have asked if they had a steel frame which would fit. But I did not think fast enough. The shop is only open Monday through Thursday. So they may still be operating on a shoe string but I would hate to try to make a living selling parts for BP weapons alone. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

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