heavy AR trigger woes

MLC · February 13, 2002, 03:57 PM

My homemade AR has a rather heavy trigger. I'd like to lighten it up a bit 4-6# is this possible with a standard trigger or will I have to go aftermarket?

johnwill · February 13, 2002, 05:50 PM

I'd recommend you consider an aftermarket trigger. I have two AR's with the Rock River Arms 2-stage trigger, and they're very nice, and less than $100 at your door.

Coltdriver · February 13, 2002, 08:44 PM

It turns out that the geometry of an aftermarket trigger group is a bit different from the stock trigger. Since the parts are usually only surface hardened, stoning and polishing them will not really help and it will result in a worn out trigger group as the softer metal gives way over time to repeated use.

Folks over at ar15.com, who know a lot more about these details than I do, say so.

So the recommendation is to replace the trigger group.

The question to ask is, do you want a target trigger or a field trigger.

Some of the aftermarket triggers are two stage. The consensus over at ar15.com is that these may not be up the the rigors of field use.

The field use triggers are typically single stage.

If you go to ar15.com and do a search on triggers you can read all about the many available single and two stage triggers that are available and choose the path that is best for you.

The good news is that most of these triggers can simply be dropped in by you, they are relatively uncomplicated with the exception of the two stage triggers which are still easy to install but require a little to a lot of tweaking by you to get the result you are looking for.

johnwill · February 14, 2002, 07:48 PM

I dropped the RRA 2-stage triggers into two of my guns, and they were ready to shoot in 10 minutes. Absolutely no tinkering or adjusting required, and they're very nice.

I'm not sure what "rigors" that field use will put on my triggers, but the one rifle has shot well over 1000 rounds and there has been no change or problems, and no visible wear on the parts. In looking at the mechanism, I can't see how it's any more delicate than a standard trigger...

M1911 · February 15, 2002, 09:56 AM

There are lots of excellent aftermarket triggers for AR15s, including Armalite, Jewell, Milazzo-Krieger (apparently made out of Unobtanium), etc.

M1911

sleeping dog · February 15, 2002, 09:57 PM

I have an Armalite 2-stage trigger in mine. Very smooth and the second stage breaks at 4.5 lbs. It's "geometry" is like a miniature M1 Garand trigger group. I would guess that it would stand up to "field rigor" about as well as the M1. In other words, it will work fine for a long time.

Regards.

LtBlue425 · February 15, 2002, 10:38 PM

I replaced the trigger parts on my Colt HBAR with Colt match trigger. It's not a real match trigger in my book but did reduce the pull from 7.5 to 3.5/4 lbs.

chickrepelent · February 16, 2002, 12:08 AM

I also suggest a RRA. You don't have to adjust it. Just toss it in.

johnwill · February 16, 2002, 10:52 AM

AAMOF, I don't see any possible adjustments on my RRA 2-stage triggers, other than breaking out the files!

Coltdriver · February 17, 2002, 06:38 PM

Well I'm glad to hear about the RRA two stage triggers.

Everything I was reading, like the Jewell trigger for instance, was showing four set screws and a need to tweak the trigger according to your requirements. All of which did not constitute "drop in" and shoot for me.

Several of the fellows over on the AR15.com board liked single stage or as it turns out, the two stage RRA, because of the lack of set screws and things that can come loose in the field when you least need to have a problem.

johnwill · February 17, 2002, 10:06 PM

All I do with my RRA 2-stage trigger is shoot, no adjustments at all. It's worlds above the stock trigger, though some would like the full adjustability of some of the more exotic brands. IMO, for the type of shooting 99% of AR's are put to, the RRA fits the bill perfectly.

TargetShooter2 · February 18, 2002, 06:32 PM

Hello,
I have both the Jewell and the RR nm trigger , the RR is the best value dollar for dollar , its a drop in no adjustments , mine breaks right at 3 1/2 lbs and is very crisp , i have my Jewell at 2 lbs and its the best trigger for a AR that i have used for Bull barrels . my RR is in a preban shorty .

TargetShooter2

HankL · February 18, 2002, 08:37 PM

HKLVR, You do not mention what the current pull weight of your trigger is but I will tell you that if it is much over 7 lbs. something could be wrong. I just measured,
as in with a scale , several homemades with untouched triggers as well as a Colt Delta HBAR. Delta was 5.5 and the worst kit gun was 6.75.
The best parts gun with stock trigger components, lightly shined up and well lubricated came in at 5.25. If this is good enough for you it can be done easily.
If you would rather spend some money and still need to tinker a bit the first Jewell I picked up went 2.75 and after looking at which rifle it was I can say that I like it. I found one rifle with an Accuracy Speaks trigger set and it went 3.25 and is a single stage trigger.
The Jewell is easy to set up if you have very good eyes and eye hand coordination. My eyes are not that great anymore but I can still do it. This trigger, IMHFO should be used on a recreational rifle.
The Accuracy Speaks is in a favorite target rifle of this variety. It is a very easy job to install one of these but you must expect to do some work on the geometery of the disconnector with helpful input from the maker BTW.
The only thing about a light single stage trigger on a semiautomatic rifle is that your finger might get in the way after the next round is in battery from time to time.

(?
HKLVR, You can get a good 6 lb. or a little less with no cost and very little work.
HTH

Jason280 · February 23, 2002, 01:49 AM

I have a Bushmaster and RR AR, and the triggers are terrible on both. I tried polishing the contacts, which only helped a little. I then got the idea I would make my own adjustable trigger. Needless to say, I failed miserably. My "bright idea" involved drilling/tapping the rear of the trigger bar, which contacts the lower below the safety, and fitting it with a set screw. I figured I could pre-load the trigger by adjusting the screw, which would theoretically decrease creep/travel, and make the pull crisp and around 4-5 lbs. Unfortunately, reality stepped in and I soon realized the trigger is VERY HARD, and next to impossible to drill. I even tried using a starter punch to make a beginning hole for the drill bit, but all I managed to accomplish was to flatten out two puches and break one drill bit. And I barely even scratched the surface! So, I gave up on my project and bought a RR 2-stager.

Gewehr98 · February 23, 2002, 02:26 PM

So I went looking for the Milazzo-Krieger. Hahahaha!

I installed the JP Enterprises adjustable single-stage trigger, following their instructions to the letter. No problems, and a nice clean-breaking trigger makes the Colt a lot more user-friendly!

February 13, 2002, 03:57 PM	#1
MLC Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2001 Location: New Hope, PA Posts: 230	heavy AR trigger woes My homemade AR has a rather heavy trigger. I'd like to lighten it up a bit 4-6# is this possible with a standard trigger or will I have to go aftermarket?

February 15, 2002, 10:38 PM	#7
LtBlue425 Junior Member Join Date: February 1, 2002 Location: South Dakota Posts: 7	Heavy trigger I replaced the trigger parts on my Colt HBAR with Colt match trigger. It's not a real match trigger in my book but did reduce the pull from 7.5 to 3.5/4 lbs.

February 18, 2002, 06:32 PM	#12
TargetShooter2 Member Join Date: February 18, 2002 Location: John Deere Country / Muddy River Posts: 42	Triggers Hello, I have both the Jewell and the RR nm trigger , the RR is the best value dollar for dollar , its a drop in no adjustments , mine breaks right at 3 1/2 lbs and is very crisp , i have my Jewell at 2 lbs and its the best trigger for a AR that i have used for Bull barrels . my RR is in a preban shorty . TargetShooter2 __________________ All Gave Some / Some Gave All

February 18, 2002, 08:37 PM	#13
HankL Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 1999 Location: The Sunny South Posts: 2,174	HKLVR, You do not mention what the current pull weight of your trigger is but I will tell you that if it is much over 7 lbs. something could be wrong. I just measured, as in with a scale , several homemades with untouched triggers as well as a Colt Delta HBAR. Delta was 5.5 and the worst kit gun was 6.75. The best parts gun with stock trigger components, lightly shined up and well lubricated came in at 5.25. If this is good enough for you it can be done easily. If you would rather spend some money and still need to tinker a bit the first Jewell I picked up went 2.75 and after looking at which rifle it was I can say that I like it. I found one rifle with an Accuracy Speaks trigger set and it went 3.25 and is a single stage trigger. The Jewell is easy to set up if you have very good eyes and eye hand coordination. My eyes are not that great anymore but I can still do it. This trigger, IMHFO should be used on a recreational rifle. The Accuracy Speaks is in a favorite target rifle of this variety. It is a very easy job to install one of these but you must expect to do some work on the geometery of the disconnector with helpful input from the maker BTW. The only thing about a light single stage trigger on a semiautomatic rifle is that your finger might get in the way after the next round is in battery from time to time. (? HKLVR, You can get a good 6 lb. or a little less with no cost and very little work. HTH __________________ Check 6

February 23, 2002, 02:26 PM	#15
Gewehr98 Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2000 Location: Token Creek, WI Posts: 4,067	The trigger on my preban Colt Competition HBAR was atrocious... So I went looking for the Milazzo-Krieger. Hahahaha! I installed the JP Enterprises adjustable single-stage trigger, following their instructions to the letter. No problems, and a nice clean-breaking trigger makes the Colt a lot more user-friendly! __________________ "Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round... Neural Misfires

February 13, 2002, 05:50 PM	#2
johnwill Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2000 Location: PA Posts: 3,451	I'd recommend you consider an aftermarket trigger. I have two AR's with the Rock River Arms 2-stage trigger, and they're very nice, and less than $100 at your door.

February 13, 2002, 08:44 PM	#3
Coltdriver Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2001 Posts: 683	It turns out that the geometry of an aftermarket trigger group is a bit different from the stock trigger. Since the parts are usually only surface hardened, stoning and polishing them will not really help and it will result in a worn out trigger group as the softer metal gives way over time to repeated use. Folks over at ar15.com, who know a lot more about these details than I do, say so. So the recommendation is to replace the trigger group. The question to ask is, do you want a target trigger or a field trigger. Some of the aftermarket triggers are two stage. The consensus over at ar15.com is that these may not be up the the rigors of field use. The field use triggers are typically single stage. If you go to ar15.com and do a search on triggers you can read all about the many available single and two stage triggers that are available and choose the path that is best for you. The good news is that most of these triggers can simply be dropped in by you, they are relatively uncomplicated with the exception of the two stage triggers which are still easy to install but require a little to a lot of tweaking by you to get the result you are looking for.

February 14, 2002, 07:48 PM	#4
johnwill Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2000 Location: PA Posts: 3,451	I dropped the RRA 2-stage triggers into two of my guns, and they were ready to shoot in 10 minutes. Absolutely no tinkering or adjusting required, and they're very nice. I'm not sure what "rigors" that field use will put on my triggers, but the one rifle has shot well over 1000 rounds and there has been no change or problems, and no visible wear on the parts. In looking at the mechanism, I can't see how it's any more delicate than a standard trigger...

February 15, 2002, 09:56 AM	#5
M1911 Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 2000 Posts: 4,055	There are lots of excellent aftermarket triggers for AR15s, including Armalite, Jewell, Milazzo-Krieger (apparently made out of Unobtanium), etc. M1911

February 15, 2002, 09:57 PM	#6
sleeping dog Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2000 Location: MI Posts: 536	I have an Armalite 2-stage trigger in mine. Very smooth and the second stage breaks at 4.5 lbs. It's "geometry" is like a miniature M1 Garand trigger group. I would guess that it would stand up to "field rigor" about as well as the M1. In other words, it will work fine for a long time. Regards.

February 16, 2002, 12:08 AM	#8
chickrepelent Member Join Date: April 12, 2000 Location: Wayland, MI Posts: 35	I also suggest a RRA. You don't have to adjust it. Just toss it in.

February 16, 2002, 10:52 AM	#9
johnwill Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2000 Location: PA Posts: 3,451	AAMOF, I don't see any possible adjustments on my RRA 2-stage triggers, other than breaking out the files!

February 17, 2002, 06:38 PM	#10
Coltdriver Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2001 Posts: 683	Well I'm glad to hear about the RRA two stage triggers. Everything I was reading, like the Jewell trigger for instance, was showing four set screws and a need to tweak the trigger according to your requirements. All of which did not constitute "drop in" and shoot for me. Several of the fellows over on the AR15.com board liked single stage or as it turns out, the two stage RRA, because of the lack of set screws and things that can come loose in the field when you least need to have a problem.

February 17, 2002, 10:06 PM	#11
johnwill Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2000 Location: PA Posts: 3,451	All I do with my RRA 2-stage trigger is shoot, no adjustments at all. It's worlds above the stock trigger, though some would like the full adjustability of some of the more exotic brands. IMO, for the type of shooting 99% of AR's are put to, the RRA fits the bill perfectly.

February 23, 2002, 01:49 AM	#14
Jason280 Senior Member Join Date: January 1, 2002 Location: Athens,Georgia Posts: 355	I have a Bushmaster and RR AR, and the triggers are terrible on both. I tried polishing the contacts, which only helped a little. I then got the idea I would make my own adjustable trigger. Needless to say, I failed miserably. My "bright idea" involved drilling/tapping the rear of the trigger bar, which contacts the lower below the safety, and fitting it with a set screw. I figured I could pre-load the trigger by adjusting the screw, which would theoretically decrease creep/travel, and make the pull crisp and around 4-5 lbs. Unfortunately, reality stepped in and I soon realized the trigger is VERY HARD, and next to impossible to drill. I even tried using a starter punch to make a beginning hole for the drill bit, but all I managed to accomplish was to flatten out two puches and break one drill bit. And I barely even scratched the surface! So, I gave up on my project and bought a RR 2-stager.