|
Forum Rules | Firearms Safety | Firearms Photos | Links | Library | Lost Password | Email Changes |
Register | FAQ | Calendar | Today's Posts | Search |
View Poll Results: What is the best hiking / camping gun | |||
.22 pistol / rifle - bang scares animals and is light | 6 | 4.51% | |
.38 / 9mm pistol / carbine - adequate stopping power for most encounters | 4 | 3.01% | |
.40 / .45 pistol / carbine - proven stopping power | 8 | 6.02% | |
.357 mag / .44 mag - I will haul the weight - great stopping power | 50 | 37.59% | |
5.56mm rifle - My AR will stop those beasts.... | 1 | 0.75% | |
308 / 7.62mm - heavy round does the talking | 10 | 7.52% | |
12 ga - the mother of all defensive loads. | 51 | 38.35% | |
30-06, 7mm rem mag - long range shooter | 2 | 1.50% | |
.375 H&H, .460 weather mag - elephants - NP | 5 | 3.76% | |
Other.... | 7 | 5.26% | |
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 133. You may not vote on this poll |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
June 29, 2005, 02:32 PM | #51 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 16, 2002
Location: alaska
Posts: 3,498
|
is it the same as described here?
http://www.snopes.com/photos/animals/bearhunt.asp#photo WARNING!!! link does show graphic images. WARNING!!!
__________________
"Every man alone is sincere; at the entrance of a second person hypocrisy begins." - Ralph Waldo Emerson "People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use." - Soren Kierkegaard |
June 29, 2005, 02:34 PM | #52 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 26, 2005
Location: SE US
Posts: 519
|
I got to shoot a S&W 500 the other day and fired a few 440gr bullets through it. It was unreal! I believe that it would be worthy of putting a bear down. Saw one in the gun store yesterday with 4" barrel. That seems like it wouldn't be all that bad to carry when on foot.
Oh, I voted 12ga and .40/.45
__________________
If you know the enemy and know yourself you need not fear the results of a hundred battles. - Sun Tzu |
June 29, 2005, 02:53 PM | #53 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 7, 2005
Location: right there
Posts: 1,882
|
12ga double barrel, two triggers. one barrel 00 buckshot, the other barrel slug.
and a 6" .357 or 44 Mag. for backup.
__________________
Si vis pacem - para bellum If you want peace - prepare for war |
June 29, 2005, 04:08 PM | #54 | |
Junior member
Join Date: November 25, 2002
Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 14,172
|
Quote:
WildhackAlaska |
|
June 29, 2005, 04:30 PM | #55 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 25, 2004
Posts: 2,686
|
I voted [other]
Quote:
Ruger SRH Alaskan .... |
|
June 29, 2005, 04:40 PM | #56 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 6, 2004
Location: Rocky Mts
Posts: 859
|
So what's with the people voting .22 "to scare the bear"? I believe it's wishful thinking.
I know a couple of people in this area that fired hunting rifles over grizzlies heads, they just looked up, and went back to what they were doing. Or acted really annoyed. |
June 29, 2005, 04:47 PM | #57 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 19, 2005
Location: Kansas
Posts: 432
|
Ever seen how fast a 1400 pound grizzly can close a 50 yard gap?
10 gauge with drum magazine! Or second best a 12 gauge. My reccomendation is don't use hollow point slugs you need the deep penetration on something with that mass. Or at least alternate between the 2 different rounds.
__________________
If more laws restricting our rights will make us free from harm, why aren't we safe yet? We are only less free. When faced with impossible overwhelming odds, prudance would dictate the only thing left is to figure out what is possible, and to do it. Punishment for all crimes should increase until the recitivism rate approaches zero. |
June 29, 2005, 05:00 PM | #58 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 5, 2005
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,247
|
OK, it was a .338 mag in stead of a 375. I sit corrected.
Ya thats the story on that site but its not the orignal story....don't trust the internet. Last edited by Sulaco2; June 29, 2005 at 07:55 PM. |
June 29, 2005, 05:11 PM | #59 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 16, 2002
Location: alaska
Posts: 3,498
|
dont forget that it hadnt killed anyone.
__________________
"Every man alone is sincere; at the entrance of a second person hypocrisy begins." - Ralph Waldo Emerson "People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use." - Soren Kierkegaard |
June 29, 2005, 05:13 PM | #60 |
Junior member
Join Date: November 9, 2004
Location: USA - east of the continental divide
Posts: 924
|
.45-70 or bigger - the only sane answer for big brars
For Grizzlies, Brown Bear and Polar Bear, anyone who bets his/her life on any handgun is an insane fool, in my humble opinion.
If I were going into BIG bear country, I would carry a Marlin .45-70 lever gun stoked with Garrett "Hammerheads" for the bear and a Glock .45 for two-legged vermin. Weight is a non-issue here when the alternative is being disemboweled by a Grizzly in a blind rage. The pain of carrying 3 or 4 extra pounds sure beats the pain of being eaten alive, don't you think??? |
June 29, 2005, 05:14 PM | #61 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 11, 2005
Posts: 3,840
|
Are there any informed people who could please comment on my previous post?
Quote:
__________________
The ATF should be a convenience store instead of a government agency! |
|
June 29, 2005, 05:22 PM | #62 |
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: March 24, 2005
Location: Steubenville, OH
Posts: 4,446
|
Stephen426
It's a good question, and yes, pepper (OC) spray does work on bears. Several companies make an OC spray especially for bear that's a lot stronger than the stuff used for personal defense. I've heard it works, but I would also think it's going to depend on how determined (or pissed off) the bear is.
If that doesn't work? Ditto the Street Sweeper 12 ga. /w slugs.
__________________
TFL Members are ambassadors to the world for firearm owners. What kind of ambassador does your post make you? I train in earnest, to do the things that I pray in earnest, I'll never have to do. --Capt. Charlie |
June 29, 2005, 05:29 PM | #63 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 11, 2005
Posts: 3,840
|
What do you think of the head shot with bird shot though? If you can blind it, it will have a hell of a hard time charging. I'm sure their sense of smell would get messed up as well if their nose was full of bird shot.
I only mention this because some postings said powerful rifle rounds didn't drop the bear right away. If you wound it with a pistol round, you may just end up pissing it off. I've also heard grizzlies are pretty quick so out running them will only make you die tired.
__________________
The ATF should be a convenience store instead of a government agency! |
June 29, 2005, 05:34 PM | #64 |
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: March 24, 2005
Location: Steubenville, OH
Posts: 4,446
|
well, if you can keep up a sustained pace of 45+ mph, you'd be OK, 'cause that's how fast they've been clocked at. I don't think I'd trust to luck that some of that bird shot would find both eyes. Not only that, but now you have a wounded and REALLY pissed off bear that has to be finished off.
__________________
TFL Members are ambassadors to the world for firearm owners. What kind of ambassador does your post make you? I train in earnest, to do the things that I pray in earnest, I'll never have to do. --Capt. Charlie |
June 29, 2005, 05:56 PM | #65 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 11, 2005
Posts: 3,840
|
45 FRIGGIN MPH??? That is really moving, especially with all that weight! I guess having a slower friend go with you comes in handy here!
As for the bird shot, what if it was fired from a short barrel such as an 18 incher or 20 incher? I don't have too much experience with shotguns so I don't know what the expected patterns would be at varying distances with no chokes. I know most people think it spreads more than it actually does though. If I was lugging a 12 gauge, I would think about bird shot (#4 maybe), followed with 000 Buck, then slugs. I better shoot fast or hoot early though. I doubt I could get 3 rounds off if the bear is closing in at 45 mph! If we are talking about theoreticals here, I would carry a flame thrower. He'll be Smokey the Bear for sure! They we can feast on him afterwards!
__________________
The ATF should be a convenience store instead of a government agency! |
June 29, 2005, 06:33 PM | #66 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 14, 2005
Location: Concord, NH
Posts: 2,723
|
Evil Black Rifle all the way! It scares this pants off of liberals, so I imagine it should send a bear screaming in terror.
|
June 29, 2005, 06:54 PM | #67 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 24, 2001
Location: Grand Prairie, TX
Posts: 1,647
|
I'm sticking with Jeff Cooper's recommendation, because, well.. next to Mr. Cooper I look young - and that's not an easy thing any more.
For those that have been there and done that, those that are there and are doing that and for the guy who literally "wrote the book" it's Jim West's baby all the way. Although one might quibble over the round. Thus, I voted "other". |
June 29, 2005, 07:01 PM | #68 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 16, 2002
Location: alaska
Posts: 3,498
|
Quote:
in the case mentioned by sulaco, even the true account shows that several hits were made before the great beast fell. there is very few ways to stop a bear. some people fall to the ideology that no matter where you shoot a beast if the projectile is large enough it will kill/stop it. i know a kid who believes this very thing, that his flashy bling-bling desert eagle in "point-five-oh" will kill a charging bear even if it hits it in its leg. gee, can you guess why i dont go fishing in bear country with this kid? a bear has to have its body immobilized, or its CNS damaged if you wish to stop it dead in its tracks. you can shoot it 7 times, heck, 30 times in what you think are 'vitals' and it may still be on its feet. you would have to shatter its shoulder to stop its mobility, or fill its brainpan with lead so theres no signal from the brain to its body parts. and their skulls are very thick and very hard. you have to hit it in its snout in order to do that, and that is a very small target to hit that will most likely be moving towards you at a high rate of speed. back to shooting its 'vitals'. even a lung shot may prove ineffective immediately if there is enough oxygen still in the bears blood.
__________________
"Every man alone is sincere; at the entrance of a second person hypocrisy begins." - Ralph Waldo Emerson "People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use." - Soren Kierkegaard |
|
June 29, 2005, 07:05 PM | #69 |
Member
Join Date: April 16, 2005
Posts: 78
|
as far as the dog issue goes...in 99.9% of grizzly encounters with people who have a dog along the bear retreats. they dont differentiate between a dog and a wolf, and though they could easily kill a wolf, they dont fight an entire pack and they instinctively know that where there is one there is most likely more nearby. the only cases where bears have attacked people with a dog have been when they are between the female and a cub, too close to a male who is with a female in breeding season, or suprise a bear over an animal carcasse. however most bear encounters are: along a stream river during salmon season; suprised on a trail or in the woods; or suprised the bear while feeding on vegetation. in these cases the bear has a lot less reason to challenge, especially considering an entire pack may be right behind the dog.
as for myself, the times I have been camping or backpacking in bear country I carried a 12 gauge pump, bear spray cannister, and a 98 pound german shepherd on leash. only encountered 2 bears. one was 1/2 mile +/- away, the other was about 100 yards. no threat or challenge, they both went there way, and I went the other way wether that was the way I was going or not. |
June 29, 2005, 07:13 PM | #70 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 11, 2005
Posts: 3,840
|
I guess praying for enough penetration to get a spinal column shot, assuming you can even place a bullet with that kind of accuracy at a charging bear, is out of th question?
No one other than Capt. Charlie has commented on my bird shot to the eyes idea. What about super strong mace. It won't stop it if it is already charging but it could make the bear change its mind if it doesn't like spicy food. Besides, some of those sprays have a pretty good reach and disperse in the air. If it can't see or smell, you have a chance to pop off a few rounds. Lets follow this idea a little further. What about carrying a Surefire flashlight with the extra powerful lamp (120 lumen) on a belt holster (assuming you can do so without playing with it all the times and drainig the battery ). If it is dark, getting nailed square in the eyes will have to blind it temporarily. That may give you a chance to move out of the way of a charge and get a few more rounds in. I would probably look like Rambo if I ever went camping. I would definately add the mace/pepper spray and a high powered flashlight to the .44 mag (or .500 S&W) and shotgun combo. It's not that much more to carry.
__________________
The ATF should be a convenience store instead of a government agency! |
June 29, 2005, 07:22 PM | #71 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 27, 2004
Posts: 2,745
|
Close encounters of the critter kind
While backpacking, I have seen about 10 each:
- moose - black bear (3 times with cubs) - grizzly bear (once with cubs) with distances ranging from 10 yards to 75 yards. Out of that, I was charged once, by a black bear who was after our food (we had been eating fragrant salami and cheese when he began to approach us), but I scared him off with my voice.
__________________
“Never express yourself more clearly than you are able to think.” Niels Bohr |
June 29, 2005, 07:25 PM | #72 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 11, 2005
Posts: 3,840
|
Caleb,
I'm glad that worked on the black bear but I doubt you'll impress a hungry grizzly. I would toss the salami and make a run for it. Note to self: do not eat fragrant salami in the woods
__________________
The ATF should be a convenience store instead of a government agency! |
June 29, 2005, 07:50 PM | #73 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 27, 2004
Posts: 2,745
|
stephen426 Yep, grizzly are supposed to be much harder to intimidate if they actually go for you. I like to bring along both salami and cheese, because they don't carry much water weight, don't need refrigeration for a week or two, and taste good... but those strong smells definitely attract all kinds of critters - also skunks, raccoons, etc - seems everybody likes 'em!
That black bear who charged us actually followed us over a mile from where he first saw us - we had carried our canoes into the backcountry, and when we saw him taking a strong interest in us, got into the canoes and pushed off, paddled down the other other end of the lake, carried between that lake and another, and were putting in again when he caught up to us, and that's when he charged - didn't want that salami getting away again! My photographer girlfriend actually stood there taking photos as he ran at us, and my yelling in a sharp deep voice "Hey! Hey! Hey" (like barking), made him veer off in his path, and he actually just went past us and kept right on going. The barking was a trick I'd heard a wildlife biologist describe - it worked. It doesn't happen often though - Denali, which has tons of grizzlies, gets over half a millions visitors each year, and it's illegal to bring a gun into the park. If those bears regularly wanted to eat people, there'd be carnage like on D-Day. Does happen mind you, but very rarely.
__________________
“Never express yourself more clearly than you are able to think.” Niels Bohr |
June 29, 2005, 08:11 PM | #74 | |
Junior member
Join Date: November 25, 2002
Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 14,172
|
Quote:
Just as an aside, the USFWS carries Winchester 70s in 375 H&H, cut down, many of them bearing Ghost rings (guess where they got them) USGS is packing WWG modified lever rifles, as are many of the surveying companies and Search and rescues. Shotguns are still used by the Feds also. Me personally either handgun (44 Mountain Gun or SIG 9mm) or 870 with buckshot. One of our gunsmiths uses a 10mm glock with Batten Perfomance barrel (found on ebay)..he has 16 shots of 220 hardcasts at 1250 fps Ammo for the agencies?...generic Winchester 375 or HSM Kodiak fodder in either 457 or 45/70. WildeartothegroundAlaska |
|
June 29, 2005, 11:07 PM | #75 |
Junior member
Join Date: June 6, 2005
Location: ETN, Again
Posts: 760
|
Can anyone tell me where I can find the audio of the bear attack?
|
|
|