,357 magnum and 180 grain jacketed bullets

September 19, 2001, 11:50 PM

Plan to load some 180 grain XTP's in new starline brass, with H110 and CCI small magnum primers.

Will be shot in a brand new Marlin 16.25" .357 lever action with the intention of my fiance taking a deer within 50-60 yards w/ 4X scope. Deer run 90-175 pounds.

Anyone ever used H110 to load this bullet? Ever pushed the limit at all? Hodgdon lists 13.5 gr. @ 1,381 fps in an 18,5" barrel. This seems awfully mild... am I looking to loose some fingers by approaching 15 grains? Plan to work some up this weekend and chrono them all the way.

Weshoot2, I know you've pushed it with some Remington 180's. What do you think, feel free to email me at [email protected] if you aren't comfortable with saying something on an open board.

Thanks

,

Kilgor

WESHOOT2 · September 20, 2001, 06:17 AM

See, this guy is using a CHRONOGRAPH for load development.

Makes the best sense........

H110, W296, AA9, N110, 3N37

Bottom Gun · September 20, 2001, 10:22 AM

Be sure to put a good crimp on the brass when using H110 otherwise you might get a squib round.
Happened to me several times when I tried using a light crimp with H110 even though the case was full of powder. Same holds true with Win 296.
Good luck with your hunt.

WESHOOT2 · September 21, 2001, 10:42 PM

38, 357, 41, 44, 45, 454, and any I'm missing should ALL be crimped with the superior REDDING Profile Crimp die.

September 24, 2001, 12:26 AM

In case there's any goobers out there, I must warn everyone. THESE LOADS ARE SAFE IN MY GUN, THEY MAY BLOW UP YOUR OLD .38 S&W HARRINGTON AND RICHARDSON IF YOU CAN SHOVE IT IN AND MAKE IT GO OFF.

BOOK LISTED MAX IS 13.5 GRAINS H110. SOME OF THESE ARE ABOVE MAX.

USE AT YOUR OWN RISK

.357 Mag Marlin 1894CP 16 1/4"

New Starline .357 brass

CCI 550 Small Magnum Pistol primer

180 grain Hornady XTP-HP

Hodgdon 110

OAL 1.590"

The groups listed are 5 shot groups from a rest.

13.2 gr. 1324 fps 701 ft/lbs 238 power factor 1.839" @ 40 yards

13.5 gr. 1413 fps 798 ft.lbs 254 power factor 0.997" @ 40 yards

13.8 gr. 1446 fps 836 ft/lbs 260 power factor 1.346" @ 40 yards

14.1 gr. 1472 fps 866 ft/lbs 265 power factor 1.273" @ 40 yards

14.4 gr. 1485 fps 881 ft/lbs 267 power factor 0.726" @ 40 yards

14.7 gr. 1509 fps 910 ft/lbs 272 power factor 1.265" @ 40 yards

15.0 gr. 1548 fps 958 ft/lbs 279 power factor 1.320" @ 40 yards

Kilgor

September 24, 2001, 12:39 AM

BTW, ZERO pressure signs (bulges, flattened/cratered/pierced primers, etc.) were seen in any load, even the one 1.5 grains over max.

I'm torn.

Do I load up a bunch of the most accurate (1,485 fps / 881 ft.lbs / 0.726") or do I load up a bunch of the most powerful at (1,548 fps / 958 ft/lbs / 1.320")?

My fiance will be shooting these at a max 50-60 yards at a deer, going for a double lunger shot. She's not as practiced as I and she won't be quite as accurate as I, plus I shot these groups from a bench, not from a ground blind.

My thoughts are to go for the most accurate load with the 77 ft/lbs sacrifice in power to gain the group size shrinking by almost half.

What are your thoughts?

Robert the41MagFan · September 24, 2001, 01:23 AM

Cartridge has more than enough power for those small to medium size deer under mild loading. Use a load that will make your fiance feel comfortable and not particularly the most powerful. It is not necessary. I also have two reloading manuals that list the components you've listed and they're still within the specifications of that cartridge. Advantage of having more than one manual.

Robert

WESHOOT2 · September 24, 2001, 05:34 AM

1) Accuracy

2) Power

3) Speed

When making MY OWN ammo I pick accuracy first. That's my thought.

September 24, 2001, 09:52 AM

Robert,

What manuals are you refering to and what are thier listed maxes?

The recoil from even the heaviest load in this carbine is exceedingly light. That's why she wants to use it instead of one of my more powerful longarms. She'll get plenty of practice with her hunting load nonetheless.

Tim,

Thanks, that reinforces my thoughts o the subject.

Kilgor

Robert the41MagFan · September 24, 2001, 12:37 PM

KilgorII,

Speer tenth addition list 15.6 grains of H110 as maximum for a 180 jacketed bullet (rifle & TC only!) and Lyman's 47th list the same bullet at 15 grains H110 in their handgun load data.

Again, think you are getting too hung up on maximum loads for this caliber. I've dropped deer that weigh twice that of what you have back east with half the power you have listed and they drop like a rock.

Robert

September 24, 2001, 12:47 PM

Thanks Robert. I'm not too hung up on power, but obviously more is better. If I was just hungup on power, I'd choose a 158 grain GoldDot that clocks 1,855 fps for 1,200+ ft/lbs from my rifle. But I want penetration and hope for expansion. I think that GoldDot may be too explosive at that speed. Thus the 180 grain XTP has been chosen.

What bullets have you used and what loads?

My fiance is almost definately not the marksman or woodsman you are, so I'd prefer it to run as little as possible. Also we will be hunting on a wildlife management area, so a quarter mile tracking job isn't prefered.

Think I'll load up a box of the 14.4 grain load. Thanks again Robert for letting me know that this load is indeed listed as safe. The two manuals I refered to were Speer #13 and Hogdon's which both list 13.5 grains as max.

I'd prefer her to use my .308 with 2,500+ ft/lbs...

Kilgor

Clark · September 25, 2001, 12:34 AM

I used to use H110 for 357 mag.
It is easy on the gun and smells good.

Now I use LIL'GUN.
It is even easier on the gun.

I like shooting 357 mag with LIL'GUN better than any other gun [it passed up the 44 mag shooting H110].

Robert the41MagFan · September 25, 2001, 12:35 AM

KilgorII
Last deer that got harvest with a .357 Magnum was done using a S&W 627 Performance Center gun, 6 1/2 inch barrel, 158 grain XTP, 16 grains of H110, Remington cases and CCI magnum primers. In my younger days I would say successful hunt, pack'm up and lets go home. Today, I'm much more forensic and pay more attention to details and explore the what ifs and what really happened. The load stunk!
Problem with these bullets. This animal had three holes in him and no blood on the ground. Zero. I even left him there to have breakfast before dressing him out and still no blood. When we field dressed the deer, all the blood was in the chest cavity and that is bad news if an animal has to be tracked. No trail, no deer.

Since then, no longer use XTP's in any cartridge and if I must use jacketed ammunition, I shop for the largest hollow point available or use soft point jacketed ammunition (best option for a lever gun). Now even have LBT design bullets in my inventory in both 180 and 200 grains. Only problem with these bullets is that they don't always feed very well in lever action rifles.

Other loads that I use is 125 grain Gold Dots over 20 grains of H110 and that is the critter load. They just vaporize! Closest thing you will ever see to a ray gun, because the varmint just disappear. And then I've got some paper cutters. Favorite is 3.3 grain of Bullseye under a 158 grain lead SWC, but that is too light for a rifle. I'd increase that load to 3.5 to 5.5 grain.

And that is what the safe is in need of right now. A 24 inch Marlin lever action rifle in .357 Magnum. When I find one, going to be in heaven and really explore the possibilities.

Good luck and here is a pic of that poor deer. He's handicapped! Only has three legs.

http://www.teleport.com/~ralfonso/robertpic.JPG

Robert

September 20, 2001, 06:17 AM	#2
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	PUBLIC RESPONSE -- DON'T WANT TO GIVE THE FINGER See, this guy is using a CHRONOGRAPH for load development. Makes the best sense........ H110, W296, AA9, N110, 3N37 __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

September 21, 2001, 10:42 PM	#4
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	WITHOUT EXCEPTION 38, 357, 41, 44, 45, 454, and any I'm missing should ALL be crimped with the superior REDDING Profile Crimp die. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

September 24, 2001, 05:34 AM	#8
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	CLEAR THINKING (in correct order): 1) Accuracy 2) Power 3) Speed When making MY OWN ammo I pick accuracy first. That's my thought. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

September 25, 2001, 12:34 AM	#12
Clark Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 1999 Location: WA, the ever blue state Posts: 4,678	I only do 158 gr, but I have something to say. I used to use H110 for 357 mag. It is easy on the gun and smells good. Now I use LIL'GUN. It is even easier on the gun. I like shooting 357 mag with LIL'GUN better than any other gun [it passed up the 44 mag shooting H110].

September 19, 2001, 11:50 PM	#1
KilgorII Guest Posts: n/a	,357 magnum and 180 grain jacketed bullets Plan to load some 180 grain XTP's in new starline brass, with H110 and CCI small magnum primers. Will be shot in a brand new Marlin 16.25" .357 lever action with the intention of my fiance taking a deer within 50-60 yards w/ 4X scope. Deer run 90-175 pounds. Anyone ever used H110 to load this bullet? Ever pushed the limit at all? Hodgdon lists 13.5 gr. @ 1,381 fps in an 18,5" barrel. This seems awfully mild... am I looking to loose some fingers by approaching 15 grains? Plan to work some up this weekend and chrono them all the way. Weshoot2, I know you've pushed it with some Remington 180's. What do you think, feel free to email me at [email protected] if you aren't comfortable with saying something on an open board. Thanks , Kilgor

September 20, 2001, 10:22 AM	#3
Bottom Gun Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 1998 Location: Arizona Territory Posts: 1,092	Be sure to put a good crimp on the brass when using H110 otherwise you might get a squib round. Happened to me several times when I tried using a light crimp with H110 even though the case was full of powder. Same holds true with Win 296. Good luck with your hunt.

September 24, 2001, 12:26 AM	#5
KilgorII Guest Posts: n/a	In case there's any goobers out there, I must warn everyone. THESE LOADS ARE SAFE IN MY GUN, THEY MAY BLOW UP YOUR OLD .38 S&W HARRINGTON AND RICHARDSON IF YOU CAN SHOVE IT IN AND MAKE IT GO OFF. BOOK LISTED MAX IS 13.5 GRAINS H110. SOME OF THESE ARE ABOVE MAX. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK .357 Mag Marlin 1894CP 16 1/4" New Starline .357 brass CCI 550 Small Magnum Pistol primer 180 grain Hornady XTP-HP Hodgdon 110 OAL 1.590" The groups listed are 5 shot groups from a rest. 13.2 gr. 1324 fps 701 ft/lbs 238 power factor 1.839" @ 40 yards 13.5 gr. 1413 fps 798 ft.lbs 254 power factor 0.997" @ 40 yards 13.8 gr. 1446 fps 836 ft/lbs 260 power factor 1.346" @ 40 yards 14.1 gr. 1472 fps 866 ft/lbs 265 power factor 1.273" @ 40 yards 14.4 gr. 1485 fps 881 ft/lbs 267 power factor 0.726" @ 40 yards 14.7 gr. 1509 fps 910 ft/lbs 272 power factor 1.265" @ 40 yards 15.0 gr. 1548 fps 958 ft/lbs 279 power factor 1.320" @ 40 yards Kilgor

September 24, 2001, 12:39 AM	#6
KilgorII Guest Posts: n/a	BTW, ZERO pressure signs (bulges, flattened/cratered/pierced primers, etc.) were seen in any load, even the one 1.5 grains over max. I'm torn. Do I load up a bunch of the most accurate (1,485 fps / 881 ft.lbs / 0.726") or do I load up a bunch of the most powerful at (1,548 fps / 958 ft/lbs / 1.320")? My fiance will be shooting these at a max 50-60 yards at a deer, going for a double lunger shot. She's not as practiced as I and she won't be quite as accurate as I, plus I shot these groups from a bench, not from a ground blind. My thoughts are to go for the most accurate load with the 77 ft/lbs sacrifice in power to gain the group size shrinking by almost half. What are your thoughts?

September 24, 2001, 01:23 AM	#7
Robert the41MagFan Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 1999 Posts: 1,233	Cartridge has more than enough power for those small to medium size deer under mild loading. Use a load that will make your fiance feel comfortable and not particularly the most powerful. It is not necessary. I also have two reloading manuals that list the components you've listed and they're still within the specifications of that cartridge. Advantage of having more than one manual. Robert

September 24, 2001, 09:52 AM	#9
KilgorII Guest Posts: n/a	Robert, What manuals are you refering to and what are thier listed maxes? The recoil from even the heaviest load in this carbine is exceedingly light. That's why she wants to use it instead of one of my more powerful longarms. She'll get plenty of practice with her hunting load nonetheless. Tim, Thanks, that reinforces my thoughts o the subject. Kilgor

September 24, 2001, 12:37 PM	#10
Robert the41MagFan Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 1999 Posts: 1,233	KilgorII, Speer tenth addition list 15.6 grains of H110 as maximum for a 180 jacketed bullet (rifle & TC only!) and Lyman's 47th list the same bullet at 15 grains H110 in their handgun load data. Again, think you are getting too hung up on maximum loads for this caliber. I've dropped deer that weigh twice that of what you have back east with half the power you have listed and they drop like a rock. Robert

September 24, 2001, 12:47 PM	#11
KilgorII Guest Posts: n/a	Thanks Robert. I'm not too hung up on power, but obviously more is better. If I was just hungup on power, I'd choose a 158 grain GoldDot that clocks 1,855 fps for 1,200+ ft/lbs from my rifle. But I want penetration and hope for expansion. I think that GoldDot may be too explosive at that speed. Thus the 180 grain XTP has been chosen. What bullets have you used and what loads? My fiance is almost definately not the marksman or woodsman you are, so I'd prefer it to run as little as possible. Also we will be hunting on a wildlife management area, so a quarter mile tracking job isn't prefered. Think I'll load up a box of the 14.4 grain load. Thanks again Robert for letting me know that this load is indeed listed as safe. The two manuals I refered to were Speer #13 and Hogdon's which both list 13.5 grains as max. I'd prefer her to use my .308 with 2,500+ ft/lbs... Kilgor

September 25, 2001, 12:35 AM	#13
Robert the41MagFan Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 1999 Posts: 1,233	KilgorII Last deer that got harvest with a .357 Magnum was done using a S&W 627 Performance Center gun, 6 1/2 inch barrel, 158 grain XTP, 16 grains of H110, Remington cases and CCI magnum primers. In my younger days I would say successful hunt, pack'm up and lets go home. Today, I'm much more forensic and pay more attention to details and explore the what ifs and what really happened. The load stunk! Problem with these bullets. This animal had three holes in him and no blood on the ground. Zero. I even left him there to have breakfast before dressing him out and still no blood. When we field dressed the deer, all the blood was in the chest cavity and that is bad news if an animal has to be tracked. No trail, no deer. Since then, no longer use XTP's in any cartridge and if I must use jacketed ammunition, I shop for the largest hollow point available or use soft point jacketed ammunition (best option for a lever gun). Now even have LBT design bullets in my inventory in both 180 and 200 grains. Only problem with these bullets is that they don't always feed very well in lever action rifles. Other loads that I use is 125 grain Gold Dots over 20 grains of H110 and that is the critter load. They just vaporize! Closest thing you will ever see to a ray gun, because the varmint just disappear. And then I've got some paper cutters. Favorite is 3.3 grain of Bullseye under a 158 grain lead SWC, but that is too light for a rifle. I'd increase that load to 3.5 to 5.5 grain. And that is what the safe is in need of right now. A 24 inch Marlin lever action rifle in .357 Magnum. When I find one, going to be in heaven and really explore the possibilities. Good luck and here is a pic of that poor deer. He's handicapped! Only has three legs. http://www.teleport.com/~ralfonso/robertpic.JPG Robert