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April 16, 2012, 05:02 PM | #26 |
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Everyone has jumped on the 1911 bandwagon. Stick with a proven company: Springfield Armory, Colt, Kimber, etc.
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April 16, 2012, 06:23 PM | #27 | |
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But all this is neither here nor there. Luckily S&W will be figuring it out .
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Know the status of your weapon Keep your muzzle oriented so that no one will be hurt if the firearm discharges Keep your finger off the trigger until you have an adequate sight picture Maintain situational awareness Last edited by TunnelRat; April 17, 2012 at 12:15 PM. |
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April 17, 2012, 11:39 AM | #28 | |
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It's not uncommon for such intended low cost store lines to use the least expensive components. Can you buy Federal American Eagle for less money? If not ... bargain ammo. While I've used bargain/contract loads myself, upon occasion, I typically don't look toward them as necessarily being representative of "regular" loads. I'd prefer to use more mainstream loads for things like function-testing (to diagnose potential gun problems), just to help eliminate low power/borderline power levels or some component issues (primer sensitivity, taper crimp strength, etc). If you have the time, let us know what S&W discovers about your pistol.
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April 17, 2012, 12:14 PM | #29 | |
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I know Federal Champion isn't match grade ammo. However, again I have never had any problems with it in the past. Not one hard primer, not one case flaw. I have had a number of issues with Winchester White Box on the other hand. And again that same ammo ran through other weapons fine, from the same box. So to me blaming the ammo is just illogical. Just because something is low price, doesn't mean it's garbage. Now obviously there are times when that isn't true, but in my experience this isn't one of them. Maybe you ought to give it more of a try yourself.
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Know the status of your weapon Keep your muzzle oriented so that no one will be hurt if the firearm discharges Keep your finger off the trigger until you have an adequate sight picture Maintain situational awareness |
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April 17, 2012, 01:45 PM | #30 | |
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April 17, 2012, 01:47 PM | #31 | |
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Ammunition prices have risen significantly in recent years. I've seen a box of Remington & Winchester .357 Magnum JHP carry ammunition go from $12 to $49 for a 50-rd box (since I was buying a lot of ammunition). Pistol ammunition similarly. Incredible. Once I'm no longer putting in time as an instructor & armorer, and have to pay for my own range time at a public range ... and all of my own ammunition, instead of just the 2-3 calibers I buy at my own expense ... I'll no doubt cut back on my training/practice even more than I have since I retired. I don't have the answer regarding which of the budget ammunition lines are consistently the best bang-for-the-buck, quality-wise. We take our chances. I've seen some run great ... and I've experienced (and observed) an occasional QC issue. I've listened to guys coming back from schools where some brands of the bulk practice loads they bought to use just didn't run well ... but other brands did (when they had to borrow ammunition). Just depends. However, when the big names are running their production lines for their low-cost offerings, they're reportedly sometimes using components that have been left over from other product runs, or just their less expensive components. How else can they afford to shave pennies per round? Sometimes it might be different brass (not as cleaned, polished or as consistent in allowable dimensions), sometimes different primers (sensitivity) and/or sometimes different powder (dirtier, less consistent & with more flash signature) than what's used in their "premium" lines. If not, how can they sell it for less? It's not just a fancy hollowpoint that costs more.
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April 17, 2012, 01:51 PM | #32 | ||
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Quote:
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Know the status of your weapon Keep your muzzle oriented so that no one will be hurt if the firearm discharges Keep your finger off the trigger until you have an adequate sight picture Maintain situational awareness |
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April 17, 2012, 01:52 PM | #33 | |
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I've come across more than a couple of mistakes in various armorer manuals (which you'd think would receive some careful attention in the editing process). Sometimes it's a picture that doesn't match the wording, or the image is outright incorrect (how about reversed?). When I've asked about such errors I've been told they're going to be corrected in a subsequent revision. It's not just one brand, either.
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April 17, 2012, 01:55 PM | #34 | |
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Know the status of your weapon Keep your muzzle oriented so that no one will be hurt if the firearm discharges Keep your finger off the trigger until you have an adequate sight picture Maintain situational awareness |
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April 17, 2012, 02:03 PM | #35 | |
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Personally, I'd also tend to shy away from anything which comes in a bucket or bulk bag, too. Or, if for some reason I did use such loads just for range/practice ammo, I'd not be surprised if I experienced more QC-related functioning issues than I do when using more expensive offerings still within the "low-cost" product lines. I wouldn't "blame" the gun for not running well on lesser quality ammo. Some guns might, and some might not.
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April 17, 2012, 02:25 PM | #36 | |
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Know the status of your weapon Keep your muzzle oriented so that no one will be hurt if the firearm discharges Keep your finger off the trigger until you have an adequate sight picture Maintain situational awareness |
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April 17, 2012, 03:17 PM | #37 |
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I gave you a straight answer. It may not have been what you were expecting or specific enough for whatever you may have had in mind, though.
I mentioned earlier that I don't shill nor recommend specific ammunition. Habit from teaching firearms classes to both LE and non-LE students. I tell LE users to use whatever they're issued, or, if they're allowed a choice, to pick one of the more modern loads being sold by one of the big name companies that have acquired experience in providing duty ammunition to LE/Gov customers. I'm not set on staying with any specific brand, although I prefer to use something made by one of the larger American companies. At one time or another I've used training & duty ammunition made by Federal (Classic, American Eagle & Hydra-Shok), Remington (Express & Golden Sabre) & Winchester (Ranger, USA & SXT/T-Series) & Speer (Gold Dot). I've bought some of the same, and in earlier times I occasionally tried other brands (both foreign & domestic). When I buy ammunition over-the-counter, I'll usually spend my own money on Winchester Supreme, RA38B/PDX1 (.38 Spl) or T-Series (individual LE sales); Remington Express or Golden Sabre; or Speer Gold Dot. Mostly. I'll buy Federal revolver ammunition, but not so much their pistol ammunition. I've bought budget ammo for an occasional last minute qual or practice session (UMC, Lawman, Blazer, American Eagle or USA). Upon those occasions my expectations are a bit different than if I were using the premium loads offered by the respective makers, and I'm less surprised if a QC problem occurs.
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April 17, 2012, 03:22 PM | #38 | |
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You have the luxury of being issued duty ammo. That is something that majority of us don't have. That's nice for you, but if you think that's what everyone else shoots you must think we're all rich. As for your point that ammunition can be a factor, this I know and knew already. I don't think it is the problem in this case. I will agree that trying different types of ammo can be constructive, and I did this with recent problems I had with a Walther P99. But again at that point all I tried was some off the shelf Winchester and Remington in addition to the Federal (it still failed with them too by the way). If something won't work with any off the shelf ammo I don't want it, if that makes me a cheapskate then fine. My guns my choice. This practice hasn't failed me yet.
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Know the status of your weapon Keep your muzzle oriented so that no one will be hurt if the firearm discharges Keep your finger off the trigger until you have an adequate sight picture Maintain situational awareness Last edited by TunnelRat; April 17, 2012 at 03:55 PM. |
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April 20, 2012, 02:24 AM | #39 |
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TunnelRat,
Relax a little, Fastbolt's trying to help you out and he's patiently answered every question you've asked even though you've acted a bit snippy. Personally I've learned allot from his posts over the years and haven't seen him cause problems in any thread. He's been there and done that, try to show a little respect and you may learn something. That being said, I know this situation must be frustrating so you should get a little slack. Hope it works out for you. |
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