This poor woman is being demonized for shooting a lion legally

[coldbeer]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/hunting-sta...ry?id=20911636
Why the outrage? No laws have been broken.
Notice at the end of the video as the anchor wipes away a fake tear Obama style.

[Pond, James Pond]

Well, personally I don't plan to applaud her.

I have no issue with hunting if it is to put food on the plate, but I don't see the point, nor frankly like the fact that her response to seeing a "beautiful male lion" was to remove it from the face of the Earth. Its life reduced to a "fun day out".

Even more so when lions are a species under severe threat from a decrease in numbers and habitat. Legality does not change that shameful fact.

Tears for that beast sure, but not for her....

[madmo44mag]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^ agreed^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Not big on trophy hunting.

[eldermike]

There has been much success in saving wildlife and land through the support of hunting. Example: I do not believe we would be duck hunting today without hunters saving this for the future. Same with quail and plenty of other species.
I don't eat rats or snakes and have shot plenty. I can't make a value judgment of one animal over another. I am not a trophy hunter myself but I do understand that the money invested by trophy hunters might well be the only way to save some of these animals. Food for thought

[Doyle]

While I'm not generally in favor of pure "trophy hunting" as such, a lion of the proper age is kind of the exception. Unfortunately, this lion wasn't old enough to qualify for my exception. Let me clarify:

The adult male lion rules his pride until beatten away by a younger lion. During his tenure, his only two jobs are to breed and protect the pride. He doesn't even hunt anymore - usually because he has grown too large and slow to catch plains animals.

Once he is forced out of a pride due to age, he is no longer useful as a lion. He can no longer hunt effectively for himself and quickly learns that village cattle (or natives) are easy prey. He will never breed again. At this stage of his life, his mane is usually quite dark - sometimes almost black. This is when trophy hunting has its place. Take out those old "over aged" lions. Doing so does absolutely no harm to the lion population and removes a dangerous predator that is likely to be a threat to man. At the same time, the huge permit fees generate income which can be used in wildlife management and the guide fees generate income for the locals.

[HiBC]

As far as my own priorities:Not interested in shooting Brown/grizzlies,Lions,tigers,mountain lions,elephants,zebras,giraffes,etc.

I do not believe in only hunting for a trophy,but,if someone wants a nice bull or bigger rack,its cool by me,of course,eat it,too.

And,I'm not part of the big dollar safari world

However:

I have eaten mountain lion and it was very good.

I suspect the locals put to use every part of the animals she killed,and appreciated the food.

I think the way it all works out is the hunter on safari is bringing home the bacon for local villages.

I also think with the economies and priorities of the nations where safaris occur, the wildlife might not receive the sort of care and stewardship they get if it were not for the revenue generated by hunters such as this woman.

If I were a local,I might prefer the lions and crocs had their populations controlled a bit.

I was not there,but I would suppose she shot the lion her Professional Hunter told her to shoot.

And,something I learned reading Ruark:A mature trophy at some point begins atrophy...age,gets us all.

When a lion gets a little stiff,a little slow,he is torn apart,still alive,by hyenas.There are no peaceful passings of natural causes in bed in the wild.Most deaths in the wild are cruel.

There may be something to the old Native American "Its a good day to die"

A sudden,clean bullet is not the worst ending a lion could suffer.I know,I hear the responses already"Well,then maybe we should shoot you or her or..."

Yawn.Whatever.

You go,Woman!Live your Life!

[Husqvarna]

Well, personally I don't plan to applaud her.

I have no issue with hunting if it is to put food on the plate, but I don't see the point, nor frankly like the fact that her response to seeing a "beautiful male lion" was to remove it from the face of the Earth. Its life reduced to a "fun day out".

Even more so when lions are a species under severe threat from a decrease in numbers and habitat. Legality does not change that shameful fact.

Tears for that beast sure, but not for her....

Firstly trophy hunting in Africa SAVED the plethora of animals now present.


like Gordon Grecco said, greed works, people took upon themselves to preserve animals for them to be hunted, predators would otherwise have been wiped out because they often target cattle.

hunting is a billion dollar industry that creates jobs for the people in africa, yankees and euros pay big bucks to hunt and atleast some of it trickle down.

lions aren't endangered either

and as somebody already said, a good professional hunter (PH) will select a male on the return, as he has had prime and is on his decline. to do otherwise would be stupid of the PH who manages his stock of animals.

and when it is trophy hunting with animals you do eat even elephant by custom the meat goes to the nearby villages. many elephants who are hunted are aggresive ones

[musher]

Husqvarna beat me to it.

If it weren't for trophy hunting in Africa, lions would likely be endangered.

[Brian Pfleuger]

I have no use for selective ethics in killing animals. Unless you're eating the mice and rats you catch in your traps, I don't want to hear it.

[AllenJ]

I have no problem with her taking the lion. It was legal, it was paid for, and that money goes a long way in supporting their local economy. My understanding is that the game populations are very carefully regulated there and poachers, not legal hunters, are the biggest problem. Funny how the news people never brought that up.

[Dirty_Harry]

Good call Brian. While I have no interest personally in a "trophy" lion hunt, I have no problem with someone else doing it.

[Erno86]

I love the big cats. I would also love to have the chance of bagging a big mature maned lion, like the huntress bagged in the picture on this thread.

Not all maned mature male lions have black manes. Some male lions are maneless, like the lions of Tsavo. Black maned lions have higher body temperatures, due to there black manes being subjected to the sun's rays.

If the natives of Africa weren't allowed to hunt lions during the early days of humanity up to present day ---The presence of humanity in that region would have been drastically reduced -- due to lion predation on humans and there livestock.

[JD0x0]

Outrage isn't a matter of legal or illegal. Just because something is legal doesn't make it right, and just because something is illegal doesn't make it wrong. I am not a fan of trophy hunting. I respect hunters who eat what they kill, and use the animal. I don't have respect for someone who kills an animal just to prove they can and show it off. Illegal or legal it doesn't matter to me.

It's legal for politicians to accept money from corporations. It's completely within the letter of the law. Does that make it right to do?

It's illegal in many places to use Cannabis for medical use, even though it has been PROVEN to treat many illnesses including, combating MANY types of cancer cancer aggressively. Does that make it wrong to use medicinally?

I am not outraged, but it doesn't exactly tickle my fancy either.

[Erno86]

I guess I wouldn't mind eating loin of lion one day...but most non-resident African safari hunters can't afford the air-fare to bring all the meat that they harvested, back to there home countries; so they just donate the meat to the local native populace.

[Pond, James Pond]

Firstly trophy hunting in Africa SAVED the plethora of animals now present.

That may well be the case, and what a shame it was ever needed. What a damning indictment of our society's behaviour if we need to rely on hunting revenue to preserve what we've previously all but killed off by other means.

But just because that is what may have happened in the past it does not mean it is how we should proceed.

I don't accept the premise that trophy hunting is the only workable way to preserve nature we have.

I don't accept the premise that trophy hunting is the only profitable way to enjoy and protect wildlife.

I don't accept the premise that the local population are hapless, just waiting for another westerner to come along with a 375 H&H and finally rid them of that [insert species] so they can finally eat/be safe.

I don't believe trophy hunters are overly concerned about preserving these species.
I think it is an argument used to justify the fact that they want to kill stuff that has big teeth and will look good on the wall.
If preservation were their goal, they could donate to conservation org's, go on safaris instead.

I don't agree with killing animals for "a laugh". It is not an activity I can bring myself to respect.

lions aren't endangered either

If that is true then why are even the Masai Mara trying to curb their coming of age tradition of killing a lion by spear to prove one's manhood: because they know that numbers are in rapid decline.

Take a look. 450K in 1940 to 20K by 2000. Quite sobering.

When those sorts of changes arise from direct or indirect human activity over just the period of 1940 to the turn of the 21st century, I think that your definition of endangered and mine are very different.

How few do you want there to be before they become worth actively protecting?

Wildlife safaris are a billion dollar industry that creates jobs for the people in africa, yankees and euros pay big bucks to hunt ...

Permit the amendment that illustrates that a rifle is not needed to garner the same results.

... and atleast some of it trickle down.

"Some" is the operative word there. I bet the main beneficiaries are not the majority of locals and that the "some" is a paltry %.

Professional Hunters are not conservationists. They are Professional Hunters.
If they are preserving these animals it is primarily to make money. What does that mean when that animal no longer becomes profitable/worth maintaining: Bottom line is that trophy hunting is not the only nor even the best means of conservation at our current disposal.

So let's not claim that trophy hunters are motivated by a desire to preserve the Savannah. If they were they could choose from any number of more effective, more sustainable ways of doing so.
Let's rather say it like it is: they do it because they want to kill a big African game animal.

[Ruger480]

I agree with Doyle almost 100%. The only difference of opinion is the definition of trophy. That, I believe is up to the person making the harvest.

As far as there being other workable methods of reviving a dwindling population of game animals, I don't believe there is. Dollar for dollar, the money that hunters spend goes more towards wildlife habitat improvement and preservation than any other organization.

I would curious to know how much, if any, of that lion compound was funded by money from safari hunts.

[Erno86]

James Pond - I disagree on your premise that trophy/professional hunter's are not conservationist's. Rather...I believe that the majority of trophy/professional hunter's are true conservationist's, due to the fact that they {law abiding hunters} want to sustain huntable populations of exotic animals, with the preservation of gamelands all over our planet.

[TATER]

The friggen Lion is eaten unless diseased.. Everything IS managed.. There is at least two Government "taddelTails" you have to contend with the whole time..Locals get the meat.
If I harvest a deer and give it to you then I am a bad person and have no ethics i.e. Trophy hunter?…

[spacemanspiff]

I don't find it outrageous. However I am a cat person. I don't like seeing any cat, big or small, get taken in a hunt. But that doesn't mean I am anti-hunting, nor do I think that no one should hunt big cats. I just don't like seeing it happen.

[eastbank]

i hunted in africa last may and june and at least 40(trackers,clean up,cooking,skinners transptation and guilds along with others) people made money on the hunt and all the meat was used by the locals, all laws were obeyed as to what animals were allowed to be hunted. and i,m going back this coming may and june. and i see nothing wrong with the lady taking the lion. the poaching that goes on is minor because of the monies the hunting brings in. with out the legal hunting the pouching would be rampant with complete disreguard for any species surivual. eastbank.

[Art Eatman]

Granted that H&Hhunter focuses on elephants, but high odds are that it applies to lions as well.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=189864

If a wild animal has a monetary value to the local populace, they will act to protect it. If it has no value to them, they won't--and in Africa, the no-value aspect has led to unrestrained poaching. Where the high license fee money is split with the locals, protection exists and species remain healthy.

That holds true for game animals everywhere. No legally huntable animal in the US is endangered or even threatened. And it is from hunters' funding that we have more whitetail deer and turkey today than when the first Europeans arrived.

What I like or don't like is irrelevant to the reality of human nature and money.

[TATER]

25 years ago there were no deer to speak of in Central MS...

[Andrew S]

"What a damning indictment of our society's behaviour if we need to rely on hunting revenue to preserve what we've previously all but killed off by other means."

Pond, you say that as an outsider that sees the lion as a commodity. You appreciate it as something pretty and worth keeping around. The locals see it as a wild, dangerous animal that is better off dead. Prior to regulated trophy hunts locals were poaching the animals to extinction and selling their hides to make a quick buck. It is self preservation at its base. Now those some people have an incentive to keep the animals around because lawful hunters bring in more money than they would otherwise see which has raised the value of the animals.

I don't know if trophy hunters care or not. They are for sure interested in having an fun and enjoyable hunt and they are willing to pay for that privilege which is what pays for that conservation so what does it matter? The fact that they spend all of that money to do it lawfully instead of just going out and shooting whatever they want tells me something. Most hunters do seem to care even if it is from the self serving motivation of being able to hunt again in the future.

You may not accept it but our own wildlife management plans work on the same principal.

You looked at 2 years of lion population. What have the last 15 years been like?

[buck460XVR]

It was legal. If folks have a problem with it they need to direct their anger at those that make the rules, not those that play by them. Now odds are, it was a staged hunt and a planted lion. If you go to the Maroi Conservancy web page they book no hunts for Lion, not even "POR", nor do they have pictures of other successful Lion hunters on the site. They do list limited hunts for leopards(POR) and do show pics of successful leopards hunters. So again, the hunt was legal. The fact some are upset may be that it was a staged for T.V. hunt and was not all that ethical. The Maroi Conservancy charges $15,000 for Buffalo, that were not originally present in the area under their control. Wonder what the charge was for that lion........

[Jo6pak]

When you can buy your meat at the local grocery store, it is a slippery slope to damn those hunters who do not eat what they kill as "trophy hunters."

The brutal truth is that we are ALL sport hunters