One 1911, 2 slides ... is it possible?

saands · December 12, 2002, 07:04 PM

I have a Springfield full-sized 1911 in 45acp and a 460 Rowland conversion kit. The 460 kit is a little bit of a chore to mount and unmount and I was wondering if it would be possible to get a Colt Series70 slide (I've seen some on sale recently) and mount the 460 kit in that. How closely toleranced were these slides manufactured? Close enough that if I buy one that I could reasonably expect it to fit?

What do you think?

Thanks,
Saands

HSMITH · December 12, 2002, 07:21 PM

If your Rowland barrel is "drop-in" then yes, just buy another slide to put it in. The Gold Cup is about the only Colt that you can't swap parts around pretty easily.

Occasionally you will hit a snag, but on stock guns they are pretty easily corrected.

Ledbetter · December 12, 2002, 07:27 PM

You will have to fit a new slide stop for the new slide unless you get very lucky.

saands · December 12, 2002, 07:35 PM

The Rowland is "drop-in" and it "dropped in" to my Springfield slide just fine ...

I wasn't counting on a slide stop, that is good to know. It means an extra $20 or so ... but I can live with that.

I guess I was most worried about the fit to the frame rails ... is it safe to say that that won't be an issue, 'cuz I don't want to get into lapping a slide to fit a frame when I don't want the frame lapped! If it came to that, I guess I'd have to make a frame rail substitute on the mill and use that for lapping the slide and that sounds like WAY TOO MUCH TROUBLE!

Thanks for the help,
Saands

Jim V · December 12, 2002, 07:43 PM

CDNN has Colt Series 70 slides in stock. There should be no trouble dropping one on your Springfield frame.

Slide
Firing Pin & Spring
Firing Pin Stop/Block
Slide Stop
Barrel Bushing
Recoil Spring Guide
Recoil Spring Plug
Sights?

saands · December 12, 2002, 07:59 PM

Jim V: CDNN is exactly where I saw them. They have some right now with sights and the 460 kit came with everything but the extractor, firing pin, firing pin stop, and the slide stop if it turns out to be required.

Thanks,
Saands

Jim V · December 13, 2002, 01:56 AM

I've been thinking of getting one or two of the slides to put on one of my 1911s that needs a slide transplant. One slide set up for everyday use and one with a comped barrel for the occasional pin match.

I have all the internals for the slides in my parts boxes.

stans · December 13, 2002, 06:51 AM

I have a nice switch top gun. A Colt Delta Elite Stainless 10mm and a Springfield 45 ACP top end. I rarely shoot the 10, but the 45 has been my IPSC gun for several years.

Ledbetter · December 13, 2002, 01:31 PM

I have done this with a Commander. It came with a comp'd slide and I bought another because I wanted to save wear and tear, etc.

I bought a take-off from a guy here who was using the frame for a new project. The slide came with everything mentioned by Jim V, except for the slide stop, plus a barrel and link.

I put in the standard recoil spring and tried new barrel links until I found the one that yielded the tightest lock up and best accuracy.

The slide will not lock back with the stop I had been using, which functions flawlessly with the original slide. This is the only remaining problem; I need to make some measurements with the micrometer and fit a new stop, I think.

Regards.

terez · September 3, 2004, 06:26 PM

Along the same idea......I want to use a 40 cal commander top end on my ser 80 govt 45 frame. Is this ok?

saands · September 3, 2004, 06:34 PM

It seems that if you go to a smaller case head like the 40, then usually they use a taller ejector ... I have not done this, but I was told that I would have a hard time making what you want to do work when I inquired about doing it with a 10mm ... sorry for the bad news. But ... now that I am thinking about it, I probably was also thinking about trying to use a 45acp slide ... so don't give up hope until this is confirmed

Saands

swith · September 3, 2004, 10:36 PM

Unless the very heavy recoil springs of the .460 wont let the slide fully retract? Nor would there be any need of a different ejector or firing pin stop, to my knowledge.

1911Tuner · September 4, 2004, 11:34 AM

Quote:

I put in the standard recoil spring and tried new barrel links until I found the one that yielded the tightest lock up and best accuracy.
_____________________

Um...Uhhhh...

Link too long= Delayed linkdown timing, and limited barrel linkdown. Might wanna keep a close check on the front corners of the locking lugs for flanging and radiused corners. Also inside the slide at the rear of the lugs.

Link too short= aybe no unlocking at all unless the pistol is held on the horizontal plane...and maybe still have a crash between locking lugs and slide lugs even then. Check for damage noted above.

Locking on link= Eventually beating the link pin hole in the lower lug into an egg-shape and causing linkdown timing problems. Maybe break the lower lug.
maybe shear the upper lugs...All bad JuJu. Vertical lockup is correctly achieved by supporting the lower lug and feet on the slidestop pin. If it locks on the link, it's not stable. Acccuracy suffers and maybe the gun breaks...
depending on how tight it's locking on the link.

Luck!

Tuner

Ledbetter · September 15, 2004, 05:26 PM

Tuner,

Thanks for the tips. Haven't had those problems yet, but will keep an eye out.

Geoff Timm · September 15, 2004, 06:23 PM

It has been my experience that slides are not all that interchangeable. I recommend professional fitting. That being said, multi-caliber, multi-barrel and slide 1911s are a fine old tradition.

I once met a machinist who had a poly caliber 1911. With a .38/45 conversion unit, he could shoot as well as a .38 Special Gold Cup.

Geoff
Who will stick with .45 ACP, thank you.

Wallew · October 17, 2004, 01:30 PM

What are the CUP pressures of the .460 Rowland. You might want to make sure that their slide IS NOT BEEFED UP because it has to be.

Having said that, IF you are having a 'minor' fitting problem, consider using automotive lapping compound. Start at about 320, go to 400 and then to 600. It should solve the 'fitment problems' with your .460 slide.

And that fix is a lot CHEAPER than buying ANY NEW PARTS at all.

Lapping compound is CHEAP.

saands · October 17, 2004, 05:56 PM

Wallew: The 460 kit doesn't come from Clark Custom with its own slide ... but they do caution that the 460 should only be installed on a high quality 1911 platform. I chose to get an additional slide just to be able to quickly swap calibers ... I now have the ability to shoot 45acp, 460 Rowland, and 22LR on the same frame with essentially the same trigger feel. It's a great solution IMHO.

Saands

Wallew · October 19, 2004, 12:21 AM

Saands,
I concour. IT IS A GREAT SETUP. And you get three guns in one. WAY TO GO. I'm a frugual guy myself and that type of setup is great!

saands · October 19, 2004, 12:23 PM

By the way ... the 460 generates up to 28,200 psi as apposed to the 21,000 psi that the 45acp is supposedly limited to ... while the lugs (barrel and slide) need to be up to the task, I think that the brake/comp on the muzzle attenuates a lot of the battering that the rest of the slide would normally take with that kind of pressure boost. It is the mildest feeling magnum I have ever shot.

Saands

Wallew · October 19, 2004, 01:21 PM

Saands,
I agree that 'felt recoil' will be GREATLY REDUCED by compensating any firearm. MY concern was the pressure inside the barrel BEFORE the bullet leaves the barrel. That's all.

AND 28,500 SHOULD BE no big deal FOR ANY BARREL. I was worried that it would be TWICE OR THREE TIMES THAT. Thanks for the first hand knowledge.

Harry Bonar · January 18, 2005, 09:38 PM

Dear Sir:
Do not be fooled; I've NEVER seen a "drop-in anything! You will need to do some fitting.

Dave Sample · January 19, 2005, 01:07 AM

Amen ,Harry. I just can't bear to comment on this one. Sorry.

brickeyee · January 19, 2005, 01:41 PM

The ejector is the biggest problem. Some milling of either the slide or the ejector will be required to change head sizes between 9 mm and 45 ACP. Other head sizes may exhibit similar problems. i have made switch tops both ways (milling the ejector and milling slides) and prefer the ejector change.
A full length guide rod will allow self contained uppers for easy swapping.

December 12, 2002, 07:04 PM	#1
saands Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 1999 Posts: 1,573	One 1911, 2 slides ... is it possible? I have a Springfield full-sized 1911 in 45acp and a 460 Rowland conversion kit. The 460 kit is a little bit of a chore to mount and unmount and I was wondering if it would be possible to get a Colt Series70 slide (I've seen some on sale recently) and mount the 460 kit in that. How closely toleranced were these slides manufactured? Close enough that if I buy one that I could reasonably expect it to fit? What do you think? Thanks, Saands

December 12, 2002, 07:27 PM	#3
Ledbetter Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2000 Location: California USA Posts: 4,533	One Caveat You will have to fit a new slide stop for the new slide unless you get very lucky.

December 12, 2002, 07:43 PM	#5
Jim V Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 1999 Location: SE Michigan - USA Posts: 4,038	CDNN has Colt Series 70 slides in stock. There should be no trouble dropping one on your Springfield frame. Slide Firing Pin & Spring Firing Pin Stop/Block Slide Stop Barrel Bushing Recoil Spring Guide Recoil Spring Plug Sights? __________________ *MOLON LABE* If it ain't metal, single stack & single action, it ain't a 1911 no matter what it looks like. 1911 Forum THE TUBBY CURMUDGEON

December 13, 2002, 01:56 AM	#7
Jim V Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 1999 Location: SE Michigan - USA Posts: 4,038	I've been thinking of getting one or two of the slides to put on one of my 1911s that needs a slide transplant. One slide set up for everyday use and one with a comped barrel for the occasional pin match. I have all the internals for the slides in my parts boxes. __________________ *MOLON LABE* If it ain't metal, single stack & single action, it ain't a 1911 no matter what it looks like. 1911 Forum THE TUBBY CURMUDGEON

September 3, 2004, 06:26 PM	#10
terez Junior Member Join Date: August 29, 2004 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 3	1911 top ens swaps Along the same idea......I want to use a 40 cal commander top end on my ser 80 govt 45 frame. Is this ok?

December 12, 2002, 07:21 PM	#2
HSMITH Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2002 Posts: 2,019	If your Rowland barrel is "drop-in" then yes, just buy another slide to put it in. The Gold Cup is about the only Colt that you can't swap parts around pretty easily. Occasionally you will hit a snag, but on stock guns they are pretty easily corrected.

December 12, 2002, 07:35 PM	#4
saands Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 1999 Posts: 1,573	The Rowland is "drop-in" and it "dropped in" to my Springfield slide just fine ... I wasn't counting on a slide stop, that is good to know. It means an extra $20 or so ... but I can live with that. I guess I was most worried about the fit to the frame rails ... is it safe to say that that won't be an issue, 'cuz I don't want to get into lapping a slide to fit a frame when I don't want the frame lapped! If it came to that, I guess I'd have to make a frame rail substitute on the mill and use that for lapping the slide and that sounds like WAY TOO MUCH TROUBLE! Thanks for the help, Saands

December 12, 2002, 07:59 PM	#6
saands Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 1999 Posts: 1,573	Jim V: CDNN is exactly where I saw them. They have some right now with sights and the 460 kit came with everything but the extractor, firing pin, firing pin stop, and the slide stop if it turns out to be required. Thanks, Saands

December 13, 2002, 06:51 AM	#8
stans Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2001 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 838	I have a nice switch top gun. A Colt Delta Elite Stainless 10mm and a Springfield 45 ACP top end. I rarely shoot the 10, but the 45 has been my IPSC gun for several years.

December 13, 2002, 01:31 PM	#9
Ledbetter Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2000 Location: California USA Posts: 4,533	I have done this with a Commander. It came with a comp'd slide and I bought another because I wanted to save wear and tear, etc. I bought a take-off from a guy here who was using the frame for a new project. The slide came with everything mentioned by Jim V, except for the slide stop, plus a barrel and link. I put in the standard recoil spring and tried new barrel links until I found the one that yielded the tightest lock up and best accuracy. The slide will not lock back with the stop I had been using, which functions flawlessly with the original slide. This is the only remaining problem; I need to make some measurements with the micrometer and fit a new stop, I think. Regards.

September 3, 2004, 06:34 PM	#11
saands Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 1999 Posts: 1,573	It seems that if you go to a smaller case head like the 40, then usually they use a taller ejector ... I have not done this, but I was told that I would have a hard time making what you want to do work when I inquired about doing it with a 10mm ... sorry for the bad news. But ... now that I am thinking about it, I probably was also thinking about trying to use a 45acp slide ... so don't give up hope until this is confirmed Saands

September 3, 2004, 10:36 PM	#12
swith Junior member Join Date: September 3, 2004 Posts: 11	dunno why the slide stop would need changing. Unless the very heavy recoil springs of the .460 wont let the slide fully retract? Nor would there be any need of a different ejector or firing pin stop, to my knowledge.

September 4, 2004, 11:34 AM	#13
1911Tuner Senior Member Join Date: May 17, 2004 Location: NC Piedmont/Foothills Posts: 666	Hit the Links Quote: I put in the standard recoil spring and tried new barrel links until I found the one that yielded the tightest lock up and best accuracy. _____________________ Um...Uhhhh... Link too long= Delayed linkdown timing, and limited barrel linkdown. Might wanna keep a close check on the front corners of the locking lugs for flanging and radiused corners. Also inside the slide at the rear of the lugs. Link too short= aybe no unlocking at all unless the pistol is held on the horizontal plane...and maybe still have a crash between locking lugs and slide lugs even then. Check for damage noted above. Locking on link= Eventually beating the link pin hole in the lower lug into an egg-shape and causing linkdown timing problems. Maybe break the lower lug. maybe shear the upper lugs...All bad JuJu. Vertical lockup is correctly achieved by supporting the lower lug and feet on the slidestop pin. If it locks on the link, it's not stable. Acccuracy suffers and maybe the gun breaks... depending on how tight it's locking on the link. Luck! Tuner __________________ If your front porch collapses and kills more than three dogs...You just might be a redneck

September 15, 2004, 05:26 PM	#14
Ledbetter Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2000 Location: California USA Posts: 4,533	Tuner, Thanks for the tips. Haven't had those problems yet, but will keep an eye out. __________________ Regards, Ledbetter from thefiringline TFL #4573 NRA for Life Winchester Canyon Gun Club for Life

September 15, 2004, 06:23 PM	#15
Geoff Timm Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2004 Location: Florida Posts: 472	It has been my experience that slides are not all that interchangeable. I recommend professional fitting. That being said, multi-caliber, multi-barrel and slide 1911s are a fine old tradition. I once met a machinist who had a poly caliber 1911. With a .38/45 conversion unit, he could shoot as well as a .38 Special Gold Cup. Geoff Who will stick with .45 ACP, thank you.

October 17, 2004, 01:30 PM	#16
Wallew Junior member Join Date: October 3, 1999 Posts: 910	What are the CUP pressures of the .460 Rowland. You might want to make sure that their slide IS NOT BEEFED UP because it has to be. Having said that, IF you are having a 'minor' fitting problem, consider using automotive lapping compound. Start at about 320, go to 400 and then to 600. It should solve the 'fitment problems' with your .460 slide. And that fix is a lot CHEAPER than buying ANY NEW PARTS at all. Lapping compound is CHEAP.

October 17, 2004, 05:56 PM	#17
saands Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 1999 Posts: 1,573	Wallew: The 460 kit doesn't come from Clark Custom with its own slide ... but they do caution that the 460 should only be installed on a high quality 1911 platform. I chose to get an additional slide just to be able to quickly swap calibers ... I now have the ability to shoot 45acp, 460 Rowland, and 22LR on the same frame with essentially the same trigger feel. It's a great solution IMHO. Saands

October 19, 2004, 12:21 AM	#18
Wallew Junior member Join Date: October 3, 1999 Posts: 910	Saands, I concour. IT IS A GREAT SETUP. And you get three guns in one. WAY TO GO. I'm a frugual guy myself and that type of setup is great!

October 19, 2004, 12:23 PM	#19
saands Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 1999 Posts: 1,573	By the way ... the 460 generates up to 28,200 psi as apposed to the 21,000 psi that the 45acp is supposedly limited to ... while the lugs (barrel and slide) need to be up to the task, I think that the brake/comp on the muzzle attenuates a lot of the battering that the rest of the slide would normally take with that kind of pressure boost. It is the mildest feeling magnum I have ever shot. Saands

October 19, 2004, 01:21 PM	#20
Wallew Junior member Join Date: October 3, 1999 Posts: 910	Saands, I agree that 'felt recoil' will be GREATLY REDUCED by compensating any firearm. MY concern was the pressure inside the barrel BEFORE the bullet leaves the barrel. That's all. AND 28,500 SHOULD BE no big deal FOR ANY BARREL. I was worried that it would be TWICE OR THREE TIMES THAT. Thanks for the first hand knowledge.

January 18, 2005, 09:38 PM	#21
Harry Bonar Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2004 Location: In the Vincent, Ohio general area. Posts: 1,804	"Drop-In Dear Sir: Do not be fooled; I've NEVER seen a "drop-in anything! You will need to do some fitting.

January 19, 2005, 01:07 AM	#22
Dave Sample Junior member Join Date: December 10, 2004 Location: Prescott, AZ Posts: 1,002	Amen ,Harry. I just can't bear to comment on this one. Sorry.

January 19, 2005, 01:41 PM	#23
brickeyee Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2004 Posts: 3,351	The ejector is the biggest problem. Some milling of either the slide or the ejector will be required to change head sizes between 9 mm and 45 ACP. Other head sizes may exhibit similar problems. i have made switch tops both ways (milling the ejector and milling slides) and prefer the ejector change. A full length guide rod will allow self contained uppers for easy swapping.