The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Dave McCracken Memorial Shotgun Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old December 19, 2008, 10:20 AM   #1
Super-Dave
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 1, 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 795
Sabot slugs vs rifle slugs...

Supose you had a rifled barrel and a smooth barrel.

You mount a scope on your shotgun.

Will the sabot slugs be more accurate than the rilfed slugs?

If so how much accuracy difference will you see at 100 yards?
__________________
If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever.

George Orwell
Super-Dave is offline  
Old December 19, 2008, 10:29 AM   #2
hogdogs
Staff In Memoriam
 
Join Date: October 31, 2007
Location: Western Florida panhandle
Posts: 11,069
Well in theory the sabot should be a more consistent shooter but shotguns ain't real keen on playing along IMO... Too many variables. Some folks may disagree but I think the full mag tube to which the barrel is mounted will have different properties full than empty when the gun is fired. For ultimate accuracy a dedicated slug gun in a single shot platform. That removes many possible variables from the equation but most often makes up for it with the "flinch factor" caused by increased felt recoil of the lighter gun.
Brent
hogdogs is offline  
Old December 19, 2008, 10:44 AM   #3
jaymag
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 4, 2005
Location: springfield,MA
Posts: 239
How far is your shots?

I feel no need to change to rifled barrel,where I hunt.My scoped browning a-5 smooth bore works great up to 80yds.Most shots are even closer.Whith a smooth bore you can also follow up with buckshoot rounds.If you are taking 100yd + shots go with a rifled barrel with sabots all day!
jaymag is offline  
Old December 19, 2008, 10:45 AM   #4
Dave McC
Staff In Memoriam
 
Join Date: October 13, 1999
Location: Columbia, Md, USA
Posts: 8,811
Like life in general, this is a series of tradeoffs.

As a very loose rule, sabots(Pronounced as in sabotage) from a rifled barrel will be more accurate than rifled slugs from a smoothbore. Scoping with a good quality scope can help take advantage of that intrinsic accuracy potential.

Trouble is, rifled barrels are good for only Sabot rounds. With rifled slugs, they lead up fast and oft are difficult to delead so they function as before with sabots.

As for any size of shot, from 00 to 9s, forget it. Patterns past 10 feet would be laughable.

Most of us, including Yr Humble Scrivener, prefer the versatility of a smoothbore even if we give up some accuracy. My best smoothbore venison tool gives me sub 4" groups at 100 yards from the bench. My pet 30-30 Winchester does about the same after a trigger job and some bedding tweaks.

As for scopes, they're fine until you jump up a 10 pointer at 10 yards that's out of sight in about 2 seconds and all you saw in the scope was hair. Deer like the thick places best.

Been there, done that. Of course, I didn't shoot.

Average shot opp where I hunt was maybe 30 yards. Closest kill since 1990 was about 8 feet. Longest was about 65 yards. That happened once. A peep sufficed for both.

Of course, YMMV. I hunt like a bowhunter, which I was for 20 some years. Getting close and personal is a real rush, better IMO than sniping one at max range. Did that also.

It may no longer apply, ammo has moved on. But, early sabots meant longer blood trails than a slug of bore width making a big hole.

HTH....
Dave McC is offline  
Old December 19, 2008, 11:32 AM   #5
hogdogs
Staff In Memoriam
 
Join Date: October 31, 2007
Location: Western Florida panhandle
Posts: 11,069
YUP!!!! What Dave said... I am quite capable of 5-6 inch groups off hand with a smooth bore 18 inch 20 gauge barrel cyl. choke with just a single bead. at 65 yards and I doubt I will need that but am willing to go out to 85. I also have a 28 inch smooth bore gun should I wanna go that route.
I have no desire to spend money on a rifled barrel and scope to shoot $abot slugs. It ain't like the woods will magically open up allowing me to spot a deer that is 125 yards away...
But this is america and to each his own...
Brent
hogdogs is offline  
Old December 19, 2008, 11:56 AM   #6
Ruger4570
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 3, 2005
Location: Rochester, New York
Posts: 2,136
I have 2 rifled barrel shotguns that are both very accurate at 100 yards. I guess it is questionable how much better they are or if needed at ranges less than 100. I have 2 Ithaca Deerslayers, the old version with smooth bores and with the slugs they like, 4 and 5 inch groups at 100 yards is quite common.
The areas I hunt have a variety of conditions, from right in your face trees and brush to close to 200 yard clear shots in places.
I prefer a scope on all my hunting guns, rifles or shotguns. I use 1.5 to 5 or 6 power scopes set at the lowest power. If a deer jumps up close, at 1.5 power there is hardly any magnification at all. In fact you can shoot with both eyes open and not notice anything but the crosshair.
It is amazing how accurtate you can be even at 1.5 power. Generally whenever I have seen a deer 100 yards + I have always had the time to crank up the power if needed.
Ruger4570 is offline  
Old December 19, 2008, 06:18 PM   #7
wpcexpert
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 28, 2008
Location: Central Arkansas
Posts: 791
I finally decided to run some slugs thru my 26" barrel 870. Just the plain ole Rem 2 3/4 Slugger. At 50yds, off a bench, with the bead, I touched all 3 slugs. It surprised the crap out of me.

I'm looking for a scope mount for it. I've seen the ones that mound in between the buttstock and the action, but not so sure about the security of it.
__________________
When once a republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.
- Thomas Jefferson
wpcexpert is offline  
Old December 19, 2008, 07:42 PM   #8
hogdogs
Staff In Memoriam
 
Join Date: October 31, 2007
Location: Western Florida panhandle
Posts: 11,069
WPC, If you are cloverleafing 50 yard shots... IMHO YMMV I think you got it down pat... Once a guy has the POA/POI thing figured out with the bead, what more can a scope do? For me only, a scope would just be added weight and worry in the woods.
Have fun either way!
Brent
hogdogs is offline  
Old December 19, 2008, 10:08 PM   #9
troy_mclure
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 17, 2008
Location: gulf of mexico
Posts: 2,716
my mossy 500 with smooth bore deer slayer bbl will put 1oz lead slugs in a 6" group at 100m.
it will put 7/8oz saboted slugs in a 3" group at 100m.

ill shoot lead slugs in heavy brush, and sabots in more open areas.
__________________
There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."
troy_mclure is offline  
Old December 20, 2008, 03:08 AM   #10
Al Thompson
Staff Alumnus
 
Join Date: May 2, 1999
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 3,611
I've found that while the groups off the bench can look great with a bead, I *REALLY* need some sort of rear sight to keep my head down on the stock when shooting at game.
__________________
http://www.scfirearms.org/
Al Thompson is offline  
Old December 21, 2008, 10:29 AM   #11
Super-Dave
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 1, 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 795
So is the most reasonable estimate...


6" groups with a smooth bore barrel with scope and rifle slugs at 100 yards.


3" groups with a rifled barrel with scope and sabot slugs at 100 yards.





.
__________________
If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever.

George Orwell

Last edited by Super-Dave; December 21, 2008 at 11:19 AM.
Super-Dave is offline  
Old December 21, 2008, 10:51 AM   #12
skydiver3346
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 22, 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,222
slugs touching with iron sights?

Wow, you embarrass me bro. I have trouble touching my .12 ga slugs with my Vari-X III scope on my 870 (fully rifled barrel). Good shooting man.
By the way, you don't need to fool with a scope if you are grouping that good. Good hunting.
skydiver3346 is offline  
Old December 21, 2008, 09:26 PM   #13
Dave McC
Staff In Memoriam
 
Join Date: October 13, 1999
Location: Columbia, Md, USA
Posts: 8,811
Super Dave, there is no reasonable estimate.

What there is will be determined by you, your shotgun and a variety of slugs.

Go shoot them. See what happens with real stuff in the real world.

For what it's worth, the two tightest rifled slug groups I've yet seen from a smoothbore were fired from a Model 97 with full choke and bead sight.

Cloverleafs.

Does this mean we should all get old 97s with full chokes?

No, it means THAT load,shooter and shotgun were exceptionally accurate.

And have I mentioned how much I loathe "VS" threads?...
Dave McC is offline  
Old December 21, 2008, 10:33 PM   #14
troy_mclure
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 17, 2008
Location: gulf of mexico
Posts: 2,716
i grew up in ohio where it is shot gun only deer season(or muzzleloader).
i would spend weeks shooting before deer season.

that mossy 500 still shoots slugs way more accurately than my mossy 9200.
im lucky to get a 6" group with anything at 75m.
__________________
There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."
troy_mclure is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:56 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.05887 seconds with 8 queries