please read this

charleym3 · February 28, 2009, 02:16 AM

I've been reloadind for 25+ years and I made a mistake yesterday that could have killed me.
I was starting a load for IDPA ESR from scratch. New bullet and powder.
I'd gotten the powder,Bullseye, from a friend who was too busy to load anymore.
I set up my equipment, checked my charge weight and made up a sample of 6 rounds to chronograph.
I fired the test loads this morning and was shocked at how slow they were. About 150 fps slower. Something was weriously wrong.
I checked the chronograph, the charge weight, the bullet weight, the manual.
Then I glanced at the powder can. It didn't say "Bullseye". It said "Unique". I'd misremembered what I had gotten.
The only other pistol powder I have is Titegroup. There's no excuse to be made here, I just plain screwed up.
Then it dawned on me that if I'd set up for 2400 and loaded bullseye, I'd probably be in the hospital now or blead out and dead since I was shooting alone today.
I've said "I'm super careful when I reload so that I don't make mistakes". This time I did and if luck had not been with me, it could have been life changing.

Stay sharp. What we do can be damgerous.

I now humbally fall on my sword of arrogance.

dlb435 · February 28, 2009, 07:59 AM

Or dump the powded from the hopper into the wrong container. Did this once, thankfully the container was nearly empty. I only had to dispose of a small amount of powder.

rwilson452 · February 28, 2009, 08:43 AM

I never have more than one kind of powder on my bench. when I draw powder from "stores", I check it then check it again at the bench then check again when I load the hopper. I only store powder in the original container and use the oldest first.

Sevens · February 28, 2009, 09:00 AM

Thanks for sharing your goof for the rest of us to learn!

I like to run my bench in this manner-- when I'm ready to roll some loaded rounds, I write down the charge weight and powder type I'm aiming to make on a post-it note, and take that note down to the man cave after I've done my double & triple checking on the load if necessary.

I stick the post-it note to the powder measure, then retrieve that can from the powder cache. I pour that powder in to the measure and leave the can sitting right next to the measure. It's the only can allowed on the bench.

I set the measure and check it many, many times against the scale. The scale gets checked often against a known weight. I always know exactly the charge I'm trying to make because it stares at me from the bright-colored post-it note.

I charge 25, 50 or 100 cases (if it's .38 or .357, I charge in multiple of 6) and I make a couple extra to dump and weigh. Visual check on each charged case to make sure the powder level is the same in each. With this method... I have either 50 piece of double charged brass, or 50 pieces with the proper load in them.

I seat the bullets and put the loaded rounds in to a bowl. When all are done and I'm finished, only then do I empty the powder measure back in to the powder container. Then I snatch the post-it note that was stuck to the measure and write the rest of the load info on it, and tape it to the inside of the ammo box, and place the loaded rounds in the box.

Powder back in the cache, ammo box(es) to the ammo supply, and then I make an entry in my log of what I built, how many, all pertinent info, etc.

charleym3 · February 28, 2009, 09:29 AM

I follow all of the precautions. One powder, primer, and bullet combination on the bench. That's why this was such a stupid mistake. I knew in my head what kind of powder I had gotten out. Since there were only two choices in the locker it was simple to grab the silver 1 lb can compared to the black 8 lb keg.
The problem was that what I knew in my head was wrong. Any level of double checking would have caught it, but I didn't double check.

In my work I have gotten so used to being right that I forgot to question myself. I haven't loaded a single round in 4 years. I should have started over from the basics.
Okay lesson learned, now I need to see if this powder will push my chosen bullet fast enough to make power factor or if I need to change over to titegroup.

Thanks for letting me vent. It was quite sobering when I realized what I had done and what could have happened.

jjohnson · February 28, 2009, 10:38 AM

It's good of you to "cowboy up" and admit you screwed up so you can deliver
a sincere warning.

Been there.... because I had more than one powder on the bench **BAD PRACTICE** and got some Unique and Bullseye mixed up. Sure, no sweat if I'd loaded it as Bullseye - it would have given me very poor performance, but no harm done outside of being confounded. BUT, as you say, if I'd used that powder as Unique and it was really mostly Bullseye -

it could have been very bad indeed. This is especially true with the fastest powders I use like Red Dot, TiteGroup, Clays. You can imagine loading your .45ACP or 44 Special with what you thought would be a nice hefty charge of Unique instead one of those "low volume" fast powders.

I still have all my fingers and both eyes, more attributable to serendipity and Provenance than to my own skills and wisdom.

Thanks for reminding us - safety is NOT an option.

CrustyFN · February 28, 2009, 11:48 AM

Charley I'm glad it worked out good and you and your guns didn't get hurt. I know exactly what you are talking about. I have in stock and have used Titegroup, Bullseye and HS-6. I wasn't new to reloading but was just starting to load for 45 acp. I tried some with TG and liked them but wanted to try something different so I thought I would try the HS-6. I only allow one can of powder on the bench at a time. I finished loading and went to dump the powder back in the bottle like always and noticed I had grabbed TG by accident. I think keeping only one powder on the bench at a time was the best advice I ever got otherwise I would not have caught my mistake, and loading TG at HS-6 volume would be bad.
Rusty

Steviewonder1 · February 28, 2009, 02:48 PM

I have two Dillon SDB's next to each other on the bench. I have a tag around the powder resevoir that ID's the type of powder inside. Thankfully I have only 2 powders that I am currently using. One for 40S&W and one for 45ACP.

powerboatr · February 28, 2009, 02:53 PM

thanks for sharing, its got to be the season, i screwed up last week and wrecked my xd barrel with a bad load and subsequent FAILED to listen to my firearm.
https://www.thefiringline.com/forums...d.php?t=339281

good to hear you were not hurt.

as part of my refresher i took everything off the shelves, moved the bench and reset all my supplies and built up cartridges, opened every case and looked em over, its like going to a new store now, re-read my loading books and charts.

James R. Burke · March 1, 2009, 10:32 AM

Glad you made the post, and are o.k. Makes me rethink more every time I load. Agian glad your o.k.

HiBC · March 1, 2009, 10:44 AM

It is the nature of the human being to be fallible.That is why redudant systems,safety upon safety,are a good idea.That is why having enough humility to accept "It can happen to me" is a survival skill.
And,this is important not just at the loading bench.
It is good handling firearms.
Glad no harm came.

A_Gamehog · March 1, 2009, 04:02 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gMbu...eature=related

Another saftey standard not discussed much.

Something else to think about choosing primers the gun stores won't tell you.

February 28, 2009, 02:16 AM	#1
charleym3 Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2001 Location: Central NC Posts: 538	please read this I've been reloadind for 25+ years and I made a mistake yesterday that could have killed me. I was starting a load for IDPA ESR from scratch. New bullet and powder. I'd gotten the powder,Bullseye, from a friend who was too busy to load anymore. I set up my equipment, checked my charge weight and made up a sample of 6 rounds to chronograph. I fired the test loads this morning and was shocked at how slow they were. About 150 fps slower. Something was weriously wrong. I checked the chronograph, the charge weight, the bullet weight, the manual. Then I glanced at the powder can. It didn't say "Bullseye". It said "Unique". I'd misremembered what I had gotten. The only other pistol powder I have is Titegroup. There's no excuse to be made here, I just plain screwed up. Then it dawned on me that if I'd set up for 2400 and loaded bullseye, I'd probably be in the hospital now or blead out and dead since I was shooting alone today. I've said "I'm super careful when I reload so that I don't make mistakes". This time I did and if luck had not been with me, it could have been life changing. Stay sharp. What we do can be damgerous. I now humbally fall on my sword of arrogance. __________________ -When the need is great enough, limitations are meaningless. -Small helpings of experience become wisdom, while large servings become bitterness and despair. -I was once described as self-righteous and patronizing! I pointed out that I am actually arrogant & condescending. Last edited by charleym3; February 28, 2009 at 02:21 AM. Reason: typing errors

February 28, 2009, 08:43 AM	#3
rwilson452 Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2004 Location: Tioga co. PA Posts: 2,647	I never have more than one kind of powder on my bench. when I draw powder from "stores", I check it then check it again at the bench then check again when I load the hopper. I only store powder in the original container and use the oldest first. __________________ USNRET '61-'81

February 28, 2009, 09:00 AM	#4
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	Thanks for sharing your goof for the rest of us to learn! I like to run my bench in this manner-- when I'm ready to roll some loaded rounds, I write down the charge weight and powder type I'm aiming to make on a post-it note, and take that note down to the man cave after I've done my double & triple checking on the load if necessary. I stick the post-it note to the powder measure, then retrieve that can from the powder cache. I pour that powder in to the measure and leave the can sitting right next to the measure. It's the only can allowed on the bench. I set the measure and check it many, many times against the scale. The scale gets checked often against a known weight. I always know exactly the charge I'm trying to make because it stares at me from the bright-colored post-it note. I charge 25, 50 or 100 cases (if it's .38 or .357, I charge in multiple of 6) and I make a couple extra to dump and weigh. Visual check on each charged case to make sure the powder level is the same in each. With this method... I have either 50 piece of double charged brass, or 50 pieces with the proper load in them. I seat the bullets and put the loaded rounds in to a bowl. When all are done and I'm finished, only then do I empty the powder measure back in to the powder container. Then I snatch the post-it note that was stuck to the measure and write the rest of the load info on it, and tape it to the inside of the ammo box, and place the loaded rounds in the box. Powder back in the cache, ammo box(es) to the ammo supply, and then I make an entry in my log of what I built, how many, all pertinent info, etc. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

February 28, 2009, 09:29 AM	#5
charleym3 Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2001 Location: Central NC Posts: 538	I follow all of the precautions. One powder, primer, and bullet combination on the bench. That's why this was such a stupid mistake. I knew in my head what kind of powder I had gotten out. Since there were only two choices in the locker it was simple to grab the silver 1 lb can compared to the black 8 lb keg. The problem was that what I knew in my head was wrong. Any level of double checking would have caught it, but I didn't double check. In my work I have gotten so used to being right that I forgot to question myself. I haven't loaded a single round in 4 years. I should have started over from the basics. Okay lesson learned, now I need to see if this powder will push my chosen bullet fast enough to make power factor or if I need to change over to titegroup. Thanks for letting me vent. It was quite sobering when I realized what I had done and what could have happened. __________________ -When the need is great enough, limitations are meaningless. -Small helpings of experience become wisdom, while large servings become bitterness and despair. -I was once described as self-righteous and patronizing! I pointed out that I am actually arrogant & condescending.

February 28, 2009, 10:38 AM	#6
jjohnson Member Join Date: December 10, 2007 Posts: 72	Thanks! It's good of you to "cowboy up" and admit you screwed up so you can deliver a sincere warning. Been there.... because I had more than one powder on the bench BAD PRACTICE and got some Unique and Bullseye mixed up. Sure, no sweat if I'd loaded it as Bullseye - it would have given me very poor performance, but no harm done outside of being confounded. BUT, as you say, if I'd used that powder as Unique and it was really mostly Bullseye - it could have been very bad indeed. This is especially true with the fastest powders I use like Red Dot, TiteGroup, Clays. You can imagine loading your .45ACP or 44 Special with what you thought would be a nice hefty charge of Unique instead one of those "low volume" fast powders. I still have all my fingers and both eyes, more attributable to serendipity and Provenance than to my own skills and wisdom. Thanks for reminding us - safety is NOT an option.

February 28, 2009, 07:59 AM	#2
dlb435 Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2009 Posts: 654	Or dump the powded from the hopper into the wrong container. Did this once, thankfully the container was nearly empty. I only had to dispose of a small amount of powder.

February 28, 2009, 11:48 AM	#7
CrustyFN Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2006 Location: West Virginia Posts: 2,258	Charley I'm glad it worked out good and you and your guns didn't get hurt. I know exactly what you are talking about. I have in stock and have used Titegroup, Bullseye and HS-6. I wasn't new to reloading but was just starting to load for 45 acp. I tried some with TG and liked them but wanted to try something different so I thought I would try the HS-6. I only allow one can of powder on the bench at a time. I finished loading and went to dump the powder back in the bottle like always and noticed I had grabbed TG by accident. I think keeping only one powder on the bench at a time was the best advice I ever got otherwise I would not have caught my mistake, and loading TG at HS-6 volume would be bad. Rusty __________________ I don't ever remember being absent minded.

February 28, 2009, 02:48 PM	#8
Steviewonder1 Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2009 Location: John's Creek, Georgia Posts: 328	Mixed Powders I have two Dillon SDB's next to each other on the bench. I have a tag around the powder resevoir that ID's the type of powder inside. Thankfully I have only 2 powders that I am currently using. One for 40S&W and one for 45ACP.

February 28, 2009, 02:53 PM	#9
powerboatr Member Join Date: December 3, 2008 Location: North East Texas Posts: 42	thanks for sharing, its got to be the season, i screwed up last week and wrecked my xd barrel with a bad load and subsequent FAILED to listen to my firearm. https://www.thefiringline.com/forums...d.php?t=339281 good to hear you were not hurt. as part of my refresher i took everything off the shelves, moved the bench and reset all my supplies and built up cartridges, opened every case and looked em over, its like going to a new store now, re-read my loading books and charts. __________________ Retired Navy, living on a 365 day paid vacation full time grad student now using a dillon square deal reloader

March 1, 2009, 10:32 AM	#10
James R. Burke Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2009 Location: U.P. of Mich/Quinnesec Posts: 1,897	Glad you made the post, and are o.k. Makes me rethink more every time I load. Agian glad your o.k.

March 1, 2009, 10:44 AM	#11
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,288	It is the nature of the human being to be fallible.That is why redudant systems,safety upon safety,are a good idea.That is why having enough humility to accept "It can happen to me" is a survival skill. And,this is important not just at the loading bench. It is good handling firearms. Glad no harm came.

March 1, 2009, 04:02 PM	#12
A_Gamehog Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2009 Location: Central Oregun Posts: 563	With all the New reloaders lots are using the AR-15 type guns must watch this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gMbu...eature=related Another saftey standard not discussed much. Something else to think about choosing primers the gun stores won't tell you. __________________ "Happiness is knowing the Barred Owl is Eating the Spotted Owl and environmentalists are watching Nature take it's course"