Any thoughts on the .41 Action Express?

Mike Davies · June 3, 2002, 11:19 PM

I put this in the handloading section...hope that's ok.
I came across a .41 AE conversion for a Browning Hi-Power, that includes the barrel, 2 magazines and a Lee die set. I understand that bullets and brass are difficult to find (at least as far as variety is concerned), but know little else about this cartridge. What was it originally designed to do, and in what gun? Is it a good conversion for a Browning HP?
Oh, btw...I haven't bought the conversion yet...I'm interested, but would like some input (warts and all) from forum members on this one.
Mike

sricciardelli · June 3, 2002, 11:31 PM

The .41AE was born around 1986. It's claim to fame is that it had a rebated rim, the same size as the 9mm, so it could be chambered in the existing 9mm's with nothing more than a barrel and magazine swap.

It was designed to launch a 175 grain JHP bullet at 1130 fps, however, when it hit the market it was loaded with a 200 grain JFP bullet at 1000 fps and a 180 grain JHP bullet at 1000 fps.

It is nearly impossible to convert any other brass to .41AE, unless you have a lathe and a lot of time.

As for "stopping power" if falls somewhere shy of the .41 Magnum.

stans · June 4, 2002, 05:35 AM

The rebated rim supposedly led to feeding reliability problems. Not having first hand experience with this cartridge, I cannot say for sure. It was an interesting idea that just never became popular. The .40 S&W overshadowed the .41 AE.

MADISON · June 4, 2002, 06:39 AM

I guess you can say that it is an old Israle version of the 40 S&W. One difference I note is that the .41 A&E uses a 170 to 190 grain 410 diameter bullet. The 40 uses a 4.0 diameter bullet.

Pampers · June 4, 2002, 07:06 AM

is available from IMI through Widener's www.wideners.com

Sierra 170 gr. .41 Magnum bullets work just fine.

Yr. Obt. Svnt.

Johnny Guest · June 4, 2002, 11:07 AM

- - - It is certainly not a common caliber, and you don't see pistold so chambered on every range.

My observations should be prefaced with the admission that I've zero first hand experience with the .41 AE.

I really think it was a good idea at the time of introduction, but it just couldn't compete with the .40 auto. There's not exactly a vast gap between 10 mm and the .40 that needs filling.

I understand this size cartridge doesn't do well 200 gr. bullets. The length in that weight makes seating depth/pressure fairly critical, not to mention frequently causing a bulge toward bottom of the case. I really hadn't heard of the preliability problems with the rebated rim, but it makes sense.

My major worry with this setup would be availability of ammo and components. Widener's price is $110/1000 (edited) for new brass, which is certainly okay-- far above price of once-fired .40 Auto, of course, but, hey . . . .

You just don't find much loaded ammo around. 10 mm is far more common. And you can find .40 auto anywhere pistol ammo is sold.

I like the Browning HP very much, but the .40 cal 180 loads are pretty usable. I don't think the slight increase in power with the .41 AE is worth the added problems in trying to feed the pistol. Of course, if you were short on ammo, you could re-install your 9 mm barrel.

FWIW - - -

Best,
Johnny

Mike Davies · June 4, 2002, 05:14 PM

Thanks for the replies!

I'm just curious about the .41AE at this stage, but it's an interesting propostion being able to "convert" my 9mmP BHP to a larger caliber, rather than springing for a new .40cal BHP.
Johnny Guest: Did you really say that .41AE brass was $110/100 ?

Mike

Pampers · June 5, 2002, 07:17 AM

There's noreason to consider the .41 AE if you already have a BHP in .40. If, however, you're like me, and have them only in 9 Mickey Mouse, the .41 AE is a great conversion.

With the .41 AE, you have a round for serious social intercourse, and the 9mm for plinking.

Yr. Obt. Svnt.

Johnny Guest · June 5, 2002, 10:53 AM

Mike Davies - - -
Yup, that's what I WROTE, though clearly not what
I meant. Thanks for catching the error. Corrected.

I've shot a little ammo loaded in cases that expensive, but not in any pistols!

Pampers--Agreed. It is primarily a matter of perspective and personal inclination. Not to argue with your conclusion, but my preference is a 9mm BHP with readily located, ultra-reliable factory ammo available over the .41 AE. In my part of the country, a good 9mm BHP, either new or used, brings about as much as a .40 version. One might consider watching out for a good trade. Best of luck to you, whatever your choice.

Johnny

WESHOOT2 · June 7, 2002, 08:56 PM

I love this cartridge.

I get an easy 800-850fps using the 'standard' 210g LSWC commonly found stuffed in 41 Mag cases. I get 1000-1100fps with the 170g Sierra (got the same with Speer's 180g Gold Dot, but they discontinued it, bastards).

WAY out-powers the 40 S&W, with lower pressures. Have considerable and extensive experience with it; good reliable feeder, particularly through CZ/EAA types, and also popular in the UZI sub-gun conversion.

Too expensive to buy (hahahahahahaha!); must be handloaded if you shoot much.
Cases last forever, if you can find them.........

WESHOOT2 · June 7, 2002, 08:58 PM

Have an old AH with a BHP conversion; they liked it too.

Gunslinger45 · June 8, 2002, 07:01 AM

I got a 41AE conv. for the BHP - pre-40S&W. Was the only way to get a big bore bullet in one of my favorite guns. Have had good luck over the years - really hits the metal plates with authority using 210 gr SWC .
Only beef I had was it wouldn't feed through the case feeder of my old Lee progressive - rebated rim went into the mouth of the case below it. Not a big deal - got smart and got a Dillon a few years ago anyway.
If the conv is a reasonable price - go for it, it's a fun addition to the toy box.

I kind of like the multi caliber concept - have a Ciener .22 and 400 Corbon conv for my 1911.

Pigshooter · June 10, 2002, 01:58 PM

In the 80s, all you ever heard was how it was a wasted concept; that it wasn't any great improvement over a 9mm, it reduced capacity, some frame designs could not take it, ad nauseum.

The same people who wrote about how the 40 was so great a few years later, of course.

It is a really excellent cartridge. And it will do everything the 40 will do, and then some. I'm considering a conversion for this 9mm compact witness. Just to be different.

BTW, the 50 AE also uses the same rebated rim concept. It uses a 44 mag rim, so that the DEs could be made to fire the 50 as well as the 44.

Futo Inu · June 13, 2002, 09:17 AM

Then you can neck the .41 to .355, for a ".357AE", and have THREE calibers in the same gun, if anyone makes a die set. Cool. Negatives noted above though.

stans · June 13, 2002, 10:00 PM

The 41 AE was necked down to .355 and it was called 9mm AE. It never seemed to catch on. These cartridges were ahead of their time.

June 3, 2002, 11:19 PM	#1
Mike Davies Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2000 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 376	Any thoughts on the .41 Action Express? I put this in the handloading section...hope that's ok. I came across a .41 AE conversion for a Browning Hi-Power, that includes the barrel, 2 magazines and a Lee die set. I understand that bullets and brass are difficult to find (at least as far as variety is concerned), but know little else about this cartridge. What was it originally designed to do, and in what gun? Is it a good conversion for a Browning HP? Oh, btw...I haven't bought the conversion yet...I'm interested, but would like some input (warts and all) from forum members on this one. Mike

June 3, 2002, 11:31 PM	#2
sricciardelli Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2001 Location: Montana Posts: 489	The .41AE was born around 1986. It's claim to fame is that it had a rebated rim, the same size as the 9mm, so it could be chambered in the existing 9mm's with nothing more than a barrel and magazine swap. It was designed to launch a 175 grain JHP bullet at 1130 fps, however, when it hit the market it was loaded with a 200 grain JFP bullet at 1000 fps and a 180 grain JHP bullet at 1000 fps. It is nearly impossible to convert any other brass to .41AE, unless you have a lathe and a lot of time. As for "stopping power" if falls somewhere shy of the .41 Magnum. __________________ http://stevespages.com/page8.htm

June 4, 2002, 06:39 AM	#4
MADISON Senior Member Join Date: January 1, 2000 Location: Roanoke, Virginia Posts: 2,678	.41 Action Express? I guess you can say that it is an old Israle version of the 40 S&W. One difference I note is that the .41 A&E uses a 170 to 190 grain 410 diameter bullet. The 40 uses a 4.0 diameter bullet.

June 4, 2002, 07:06 AM	#5
Pampers Senior Member Join Date: October 7, 2000 Location: In the Lost State of Franklin Posts: 482	.41 AE Brass is available from IMI through Widener's www.wideners.com Sierra 170 gr. .41 Magnum bullets work just fine. Yr. Obt. Svnt. __________________ Your Most Humble & Obedient Servant Fred J. Drumheller NRA Life NRA Golden Eagle

June 4, 2002, 11:07 AM	#6
Johnny Guest Moderator in Memoriam Join Date: August 28, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 4,123	As a curiosity, it might have some value - - - - - - It is certainly not a common caliber, and you don't see pistold so chambered on every range. My observations should be prefaced with the admission that I've zero first hand experience with the .41 AE. I really think it was a good idea at the time of introduction, but it just couldn't compete with the .40 auto. There's not exactly a vast gap between 10 mm and the .40 that needs filling. I understand this size cartridge doesn't do well 200 gr. bullets. The length in that weight makes seating depth/pressure fairly critical, not to mention frequently causing a bulge toward bottom of the case. I really hadn't heard of the preliability problems with the rebated rim, but it makes sense. My major worry with this setup would be availability of ammo and components. Widener's price is $110/1000 (edited) for new brass, which is certainly okay-- far above price of once-fired .40 Auto, of course, but, hey . . . . You just don't find much loaded ammo around. 10 mm is far more common. And you can find .40 auto anywhere pistol ammo is sold. I like the Browning HP very much, but the .40 cal 180 loads are pretty usable. I don't think the slight increase in power with the .41 AE is worth the added problems in trying to feed the pistol. Of course, if you were short on ammo, you could re-install your 9 mm barrel. FWIW - - - Best, Johnny Last edited by Johnny Guest; June 5, 2002 at 10:40 AM.

June 4, 2002, 05:35 AM	#3
stans Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2001 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 838	The rebated rim supposedly led to feeding reliability problems. Not having first hand experience with this cartridge, I cannot say for sure. It was an interesting idea that just never became popular. The .40 S&W overshadowed the .41 AE.

June 4, 2002, 05:14 PM	#7
Mike Davies Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2000 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 376	Thanks for the replies! I'm just curious about the .41AE at this stage, but it's an interesting propostion being able to "convert" my 9mmP BHP to a larger caliber, rather than springing for a new .40cal BHP. Johnny Guest: Did you really say that .41AE brass was $110/100 ? Mike

June 5, 2002, 07:17 AM	#8
Pampers Senior Member Join Date: October 7, 2000 Location: In the Lost State of Franklin Posts: 482	Johnnie Guest, There's noreason to consider the .41 AE if you already have a BHP in .40. If, however, you're like me, and have them only in 9 Mickey Mouse, the .41 AE is a great conversion. With the .41 AE, you have a round for serious social intercourse, and the 9mm for plinking. Yr. Obt. Svnt. __________________ Your Most Humble & Obedient Servant Fred J. Drumheller NRA Life NRA Golden Eagle

June 5, 2002, 10:53 AM	#9
Johnny Guest Moderator in Memoriam Join Date: August 28, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 4,123	Um - - -Little typo, there. Mike Davies - - - Yup, that's what I WROTE, though clearly not what I meant. Thanks for catching the error. Corrected. I've shot a little ammo loaded in cases that expensive, but not in any pistols! Pampers--Agreed. It is primarily a matter of perspective and personal inclination. Not to argue with your conclusion, but my preference is a 9mm BHP with readily located, ultra-reliable factory ammo available over the .41 AE. In my part of the country, a good 9mm BHP, either new or used, brings about as much as a .40 version. One might consider watching out for a good trade. Best of luck to you, whatever your choice. Johnny

June 7, 2002, 08:56 PM	#10
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	WORSHIPPING AT THE 41AE ALTAR I love this cartridge. I get an easy 800-850fps using the 'standard' 210g LSWC commonly found stuffed in 41 Mag cases. I get 1000-1100fps with the 170g Sierra (got the same with Speer's 180g Gold Dot, but they discontinued it, bastards). WAY out-powers the 40 S&W, with lower pressures. Have considerable and extensive experience with it; good reliable feeder, particularly through CZ/EAA types, and also popular in the UZI sub-gun conversion. Too expensive to buy (hahahahahahaha!); must be handloaded if you shoot much. Cases last forever, if you can find them......... __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

June 7, 2002, 08:58 PM	#11
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	Have an old AH with a BHP conversion; they liked it too. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

June 8, 2002, 07:01 AM	#12
Gunslinger45 Member Join Date: August 22, 2001 Location: Springfield, Ohio Posts: 49	I got a 41AE conv. for the BHP - pre-40S&W. Was the only way to get a big bore bullet in one of my favorite guns. Have had good luck over the years - really hits the metal plates with authority using 210 gr SWC . Only beef I had was it wouldn't feed through the case feeder of my old Lee progressive - rebated rim went into the mouth of the case below it. Not a big deal - got smart and got a Dillon a few years ago anyway. If the conv is a reasonable price - go for it, it's a fun addition to the toy box. I kind of like the multi caliber concept - have a Ciener .22 and 400 Corbon conv for my 1911. __________________ Gunslinger Cogno, ergo, boom

June 10, 2002, 01:58 PM	#13
Pigshooter Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2001 Location: Euless, TX Posts: 334	In the 80s, all you ever heard was how it was a wasted concept; that it wasn't any great improvement over a 9mm, it reduced capacity, some frame designs could not take it, ad nauseum. The same people who wrote about how the 40 was so great a few years later, of course. It is a really excellent cartridge. And it will do everything the 40 will do, and then some. I'm considering a conversion for this 9mm compact witness. Just to be different. BTW, the 50 AE also uses the same rebated rim concept. It uses a 44 mag rim, so that the DEs could be made to fire the 50 as well as the 44.

June 13, 2002, 09:17 AM	#14
Futo Inu Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 1999 Location: Oklahoma City, OK, USA Posts: 3,624	Then you can neck the .41 to .355, for a ".357AE", and have THREE calibers in the same gun, if anyone makes a die set. Cool. Negatives noted above though.

June 13, 2002, 10:00 PM	#15
stans Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2001 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 838	The 41 AE was necked down to .355 and it was called 9mm AE. It never seemed to catch on. These cartridges were ahead of their time.