Is There Such a Thing As Too Light of a Trigger?

[TunnelRat]

Hi all,
I was doing some research today on some trigger kit installs for various pistols, basically killing time. I browsed a number of forums to get an idea of resulting trigger weight. What I found interesting is how defensive some individuals are in regards to the trigger pull weight of their carry pistols. A number of folks felt the need to rationalize their lighter triggers (finger should be off the trigger anyway, the only safety is the one between your ears, etc.) before anyone even questioned them about the weight, sort of a preemptive defense. This lead me to think, "if it's such a concern you bring it up automatically in a conversation, is it a good thing?"

I shoot DA/SA pistols. I just like them, I shoot them better than striker fired "safe-action" type pistols. But I've owned and carried just about every striker fired pistol on the market and felt safe with each of them. I've also put trigger kits (APEX, PRP) in a number of them. That said I never personally go below 5 lbs (assuming no manual safety). Even in my DA/SA pistols I usually put in some springs that lower the DA pull from say 10 lbs. to 8.5 lbs. So I'm not opposed to modification. But for some reason in my mind there is this I guess arbitrary line I won't cross.

What about others on this forum? Is there a trigger pull weight that you personally wouldn't go below? A number of folks on the other threads brought up that it makes them safer having lighter triggers as they can connect easier. But I've never had an issue connecting with a DA trigger, or say a 5.5 lb. striker trigger. This isn't me bragging, it's me legitimately questioning how much of an advantage you gain going below a certain level. Even these folks seem to impose a different level, say 3.5 lbs. You also hear folks saying a lightened trigger will be used against you in court, but usually no examples are given. I'd love to hear the thoughts of others.

P.S. - Please be nice to each other

-TR

[ritepath]

I have a less than 1# 308 single shot target rifle. It's almost zero fun to shoot because I have to look as I place my finger in the trigger guard, then be careful not to even brush it while sighting. I bought it to hunt with and it's too light for that and I can't sell it to anyone with a clear conscience.

So yeah a 1 pound trigger on my shield would be too light....I wouldn't mind 4 or 4.5 pounds

[dbc3]

I personally dont like the light triggers especially on my handgun. I would fear an accidental discharge. I know fingers always off the trigger but if i ever had to pull my xdm, ive shot it enough to know i could rest my finger on the trigger and be ready without worrying about the gun firing. I know thats not good practice but just saying. I have got use to the heavier triggers in all my long guns that i hunt with too.

[David spargenator]

I think for a handgun that your going to use defensively, you want a light trigger. I've got a double single revolver. And in double action, I swear the trigger is 20 pounds. I couldn't hit a house from 10 feet away with that thing. But when we're talking lighter triggers like with a glock. (5 pounds I believe) it's much easier to hit your target. Also it would be easier to do follow up shots. And I think the lighter the trigger. The less you'll move your site picture as you pull the trigger. And the more acurite you'll be.

[Tom Servo]

I think for a handgun that your going to use defensively, you want a light trigger.

Actually, there are a number of reasons not to have an overly light trigger on a self-defense weapon. One is the possibility of an unintended discharge under stress. Another is the possibility of such a modification being used against one in a prosecution.

Both reasons are behind the fact that many law-enforcement agencies require DA or heavy striker-fired triggers on duty weapons.

Beyond that, there are functional considerations. Getting the trigger pull below a certain weight often entails modification to the sear and other critical components. The process could result in failures to fire, or it could make the gun susceptible to firing when dropped.

We most frequently see shadetree gunsmithing on 1911's and revolvers, and one of the first tests I do when examining a used one is to cock the hammer and attempt to push it off.

[IMightBeWrong]

If you point the firearm up in high ready position and gravity pulls the trigger for you, it's too light.

[Aguila Blanca]

I shoot and carry 1911s -- single action all the way. I prefer a crisp trigger somewhere between 4-1/2 and 5 pounds. I test pistols -- I've had pistols that were marketed as "self-defense" pistols that came from the factory at 3 to 3-1/2 pounds. The difference between 3-1/2 and 4-1/2 pounds doesn't sound like a lot but it is -- I had trouble shooting those lighter triggers because the dang things kept going off before they were supposed to.

My lower limit is 4-1/2 pounds. I like 5, and I can live with 5-1/2 if it's clean and crisp.

[TXAZ]

I agree with the AD concern on a light pull. As for the 1 lb trigger referenced above, that's pretty scary to me.

[James K]

A one-pound trigger on anything but an "unlimited" target pistol would be highly dangerous in a defense gun. Not only would the possibility of a self-inflicted wound be increased, under some circumstances using such a gun for defense would be reckless and careless, possibly changing a "good shoot" into a mini-massacre and putting the shooter in a very bad situation.

Jim

[marine6680]

I have shot some light trigger 1911s... I would not want to be using one in a stressful situation. A Nighthawk I shot once... the first time, I was genuinely surprised at the break, maybe 2lb or a little less, I hit dead on POA though. I adjusted my expectations and all the rest went fine, and I made a nice tiny hole in the target. My fiance had trouble adjusting to the trigger, but she is less experienced. She loved the gun, but the trigger was off putting to her.


Sure, a lighter trigger helps with accuracy on the range, but in a defensive situation, no.


Fine motor skill goes out the window when under stress and the effects of adrenaline. The lighter trigger will not help much on keeping you accurate. There are so many physical and psychological factors at play in one of those situations, that accuracy is down to muscle memory/training rather than the trigger pull.

Now a trigger so heavy you can't hit with it is a problem always... But if the trigger is good enough to not get in the way, and you can make rapid hits in the critical zones on a target at 5-7 yards, then it is fine.

What a light trigger will do, is create a potential safety hazard... as even the best trained can fumble under stress, a finger may rest on a trigger by mistake... maybe not often, but it can happen. The mere thought that you may need to fire soon can drag that finger down into the trigger guard. Subconscious acts... they happen, its the brains way of "being prepared to face danger".


People defending the use of a light trigger with statements about the safety being between the ears and finger off the trigger... They are basically saying they are perfect and so finely trained that a surprise confrontation would not perturb them enough to shake them into making a mistake... Ever.


In my opinion (take it as its worth)... 5lb is the lower limit for a defensive gun in single action. If you can get a longer pull double action down that far, maybe a little lower (4lb) as the added pull length is a buffer... but I think 5-5.5lb is a good lower limit overall. In a DA/SA the SA pull may be a little lower, but you are already committed at that point, just don't get it much lower, as an accidental second shot isn't any better than a first accidental shot.

I would only recommend a SA gun with a 5lb trigger, for defensive use, to a person who is well versed in firearms and well trained/practiced or willing to do so. Actually I would only do so for a SA with any reasonable weight trigger really.

Just keep the triggers light/smooth enough to allow you to get reliable hits (in the critical areas, a one inch group is not really needed for such critical times) at reasonable combat distances, even when firing quickly, and you should be fine. If you need to get a trigger lower than 5lb to do that... you need more practice, not a lighter trigger.

[RX-79G]

A more complicated, but maybe more germane question would be: What's the lightest trigger a gun should have if that is the only thing preventing firing during holstering and handling?

There have been plenty of guns made that have 3.5# single action triggers, but those same guns are carried with a safety on or a DA trigger of much higher weight.


To the OP's specific question, there is likely a lower limit where the trigger pull would be so light that self loading gun would cause the trigger to move just from recoil. I imagine that happens around 2 pounds on a .45, for instance.

[44 AMP]

Absolutely! And it comes in two flavors...

There is "too light" for the user to safely use (varies more than just a bit, due to the user and situation), and there is "too light to be mechanically safe" (varies a bit with different guns, but is most often seen in semi autos).

Leaving aside, for the moment discussion about trigger pull weight for a defensive pistol (which has some valid points, specific to that application), and just loot at trigger pull in general.

Weight
creep
take up
overtravel
backlash
smoothness

ever think just how many things need to be "right" for a good trigger pull"

For me, in a semi auto, 3.5lb pull is as low as I think one should go. And this is because of the nature of the gun itself. Any lower and you start running the risk of the hammer being "jarred off" when the slide returns to battery.

This is not exactly the same thing as the hammer following the slide when it closes. When that happens, usually it doesn't fire. When the hammer stands at full cock briefly, then falls from the shock of the slide stopping, you get a BANG! Often you will get a burst of bangs, and besides being extremely dangerous, the Treasury boys really don't like that kind of noise.

You can have a heavier trigger, 5lbs or even more, and if its done right you can shoot it just as well as a lighter one.

The police are in a different place than the rest of us. As part of their job, they have to hold people at gun point. And they have to do that much more often than they have to actually shoot. A whisper light trigger in that situation is rather dangerous.

Also, around half the country lives where it gets a bit chilly for several months a year. You DON'T want a super light trigger if you may have to shoot wearing gloves!

[Sevens]

I'm of the "simple" camp in almost all areas of personal defensive carry.

--I carry a Glock 29 because years back, I fell in love with 10mm for reasons stuffed far more with emotion than anything tangible, so that's the "caliber" I wanted to carry. If anyone other than Glock made a tupperware 10 of this size/reliability, I'd have bought it instead and I'd own ZERO Glocks.

--I shoot it well and haven't touched the trigger in any way at all. IIRC, Glock calls it "5.5lbs" but it can be described simply as "crappy OEM Glock trigger but not that crazy NY Glock trigger." For what I need this pistol to do, the trigger is fine and I haven't given it any more thought. I don't think it's changed any in 5,000 rounds.

--I carry tupperware because it gets sweated on, dinged up, knocked in to stuff, and shot a lot. I have (silly, irrational) emotional attachments to many of my favorite handguns, but it's no issue whatsoever to respect my EDC for what it is: a tool. Ugly, solid, works all the time.

--This Glock is the only thing I carry. I don't ever switch it out for anything. I don't carry a BUG, I never, (EVER!) go shopping for other carry guns and I never have even the slightest inclination to get anything else I own in to my "carry rotation." Doesn't interest me at any level.

So about the only real "thinking" I ever put in to the trigger of my carry gun was "hey, can I shoot this pistol? Yes? Done."

...and I spend time, money, energy and emotion on all the other handguns I love dearly. And while I'm doing all of that, the G29 is sitting where it belongs, just like it is now. IWB.

[Nathan]

I have to be able to put my finger solidly on the trigger for it to be usable to me:

SA handgun - 2.5 lbs

CCW SA handgun - 3.75 lbs

Field Rifle - 2 lbs maybe .5 less

I have to be able to feel my touch the trigger. I shot a 2 oz trigger once and it was awful.. It broke too early. It was safe, but my sight pic was not "locked."

[4runnerman]

After reading this I went down stairs and checked mine. I have a 1911. The pull 3 times in a row was right at about 4 lbs. This has worked fine for me since day one.I don't think I would want it any lighter. Safety would be a issue with a light one. Now my Target rifles are all set to about 1 lb or so,but that is a different story. Finger is not on trigger till shot is ready, In fact round is not chambered till rifle is on target.

[geetarman]

I have CZ97 that I had a trigger done by Angus Hobdel. It was well liked by competition shooters and it scared the dickens out of me. If it was cold, you could not feel the hard spot before the break.

I took the gun back and had more pressure put in the trigger. It is NOT a gun I would carry. It is only for the range. Even with more pressure built in, it is very light. . . Take my word for it. I have to forewarn everyone who tries that gun out. As a consequence, the gun does not get shot a lot even though it is one of the most accurate .45s that I own.

[zincwarrior]

I shoot and carry 1911s -- single action all the way. I prefer a crisp trigger somewhere between 4-1/2 and 5 pounds. I test pistols -- I've had pistols that were marketed as "self-defense" pistols that came from the factory at 3 to 3-1/2 pounds. The difference between 3-1/2 and 4-1/2 pounds doesn't sound like a lot but it is -- I had trouble shooting those lighter triggers because the dang things kept going off before they were supposed to.

My lower limit is 4-1/2 pounds. I like 5, and I can live with 5-1/2 if it's clean and crisp.

Indeed. While I like light trigger for competition, I prefer a heavier trigger for carry.

SA with safety: a nice crisp 5 lb trigger is perfect.
DAO: 6lb but reasonably crisp is preferred. I'm less worried about accidently shooting then LIFE (TM) impacting that trigger in some manner.
DA/SA: I can't hang with a heavy DA first shot. Anything over 8.5lb is too much for me.

[David spargenator]

Well, I had 2 accidental discharges with a really light trigger when I was little. But now, I don't find it to be an issue. I think as long as your finger is out of the trigger guard until your ready to shoot your gonna be just fine. However I think the point your making about modifying the trigger can be an issue. I think it May cause some problems in the gun. So that's probably something to consider. It's usually best not to dick around with a perfectly good gun in my opinion.

[Knight cadet]

Too light of a trigger in a striker fired gun can also cause too light of a primer strike for reliable ignition.

I would also think that a light trigger could be set off much easier by inertial forces than a heavy trigger.

Whenever I've heard of someone bragging about their "hair trigger" I couldn't helpbut think that they're a little unstable too.

[WESHOOT2]

"Too light": for the user.

"Too light": mechanically unreliable.

There is no other definition.



My carry guns vary in 'weight' from 1.75lb (this is the gun, a custom 1911, I choose when I know my brain will be getting scared) up to my PT22's 800lb DA crank-n-yank.
My brain goes cold and slow when my brain gets scared; my trigger weight is something I logic through right then when aiming and getting ready to actually discharge what has now become my weapon.
Know what I mean?
Just me?

[zincwarrior]

Er...what?

[TBT]

I'm not trigger sensitive (I find the stock M&P trigger to be fine) but I don't like a long trigger or overly heavy trigger. 4-6lbs for me as long as it isn't a country mile to get to the boom.

[Skans]

I think what he meant was you can make a trigger so light that it is possible to make it so that it doubles, triples or goes full-auto on you. Also, if you lighten up the hammer spring there is a greater chance of light primer strikes.

[Safestuffer]

I have a s&w 66-1 that must have had some work done on it in the past. The double action is very smooth but the single action is very light, probably between a pound or two, and its not a good thing for reasons already mentioned in the thread.
Not only is the sa trigger unnecessarily light for range work, the da is now too light to reliably ignite all primers.
It's a lose lose all around, IMO.
4-5lbs SA is what I like.

[WESHOOT2]

Was the "er" directed towards my post?


Under stress, my brain experiences a certain response: it slows down my perspective of the movement of time.
Logic supersedes emotion; I get scared and the shakes later, afterwards.
So when I'm 'up on the trigger', it doesn't mattter if it's the 3lb SA pull of my NAA mini, or the 5.5lb creepy slidey "safe" break of my Witness(es), or the 1.75lb break of my TiN and NP3d Nowlin ignition group.
I follow the logical process of alignment and trigger......