whats the deal here?

redranger1 · September 11, 2005, 04:06 PM

guys, i need some help! i have a got a 9mm beretta. which also shoots a 9mm lugeror a 9x19. but i have some brass that has 9x21 stamped on the head. and finally i have got some winchester ammo that is 9x23. i have exhausted all of my books trying to find out info and what will work where etc. but havent fouund a thing! does anybody know anything about these?

Jeeper · September 11, 2005, 04:38 PM

"Normal" 9mm is 9x19 also called 9mm Luger. The 19 is the length. Therefore 9x21 and 9x23 are longer cases and wont work in your gun. They are mainly used as rounds in IPSC. Basically they are different like a 38 and 357 or 44mag and special. There are other differences but they are basically just longer.

redranger1 · September 11, 2005, 04:42 PM

so what type of guns shoot these rounds? anybody need them, i obviously cant use the loaded one, i recon i could trim the unloaded 9x21 down though.

Ozzieman · September 11, 2005, 06:18 PM

Spanish semi-automatic pistol in 9x23 Largo (Bergmann Bayard) caliber, manufactured by GABILONDO Y CIA, ELGOIBAR (ESPANA) in 1940

Since most of the 9/23 are Berdan primed and you cant reload berdan unless you find some way to remove the primer. Not easy.
Berdan does not have the center hole like a conventional primer used in the US. Instead it has two smaller holes that are not centered in the primer pocket, there for a standard die with the primer pin will break off when trying to resize the cartrage.
As cheep as 9mm is stay with it, but also be carful most cheep european 9mm is also berdan primed

redranger1 · September 11, 2005, 06:30 PM

the 9x23 that i have is winchester manufactured 125 gr silvertip hp. a very nice lookin round, just useless to me. the 9x21 that i have is 500 rounds of unprimed brass ready to be loaded.

Quantrill · September 12, 2005, 08:58 AM

Going in the other direction; 9X18 is 9mmMackarov and that will SOMETIMES work in a 9mm Luger. There is also the 9mmCorto, 9mmshort and 9mmKurtz which are all the same cartridge known here as the .380acp. Quantrill

Jeeper · September 12, 2005, 11:29 AM

Since 9x19 brass is so cheap to buy I cant imagine wanting to waste your time by trimming anything. Take the 9x21 and stick it on ebay and they buy the correct brass for your gun. There are a lot of guns that can shoot 9x21. I am not trying to be critical of you but it seems that you are rather inexperienced with loading. I would really try to stick with using the right components until you get more experienced. This will prevent a lot of problems for you.

hivel37 · September 12, 2005, 11:57 AM

Ditto Jeeper. 9x19 is way too plentiful to mess with trimming anything else.
Trimming small cases is a painful exercise.

redranger1 · September 15, 2005, 09:21 AM

jeeper, your right. i have never really reloaded anything before. i have inhereted all of my grandfathers reloading stuff and just dont have a place to set it up and do it myself. ive slowly been goin through it all and figuring out what i want to keep and organizing it all. thanks guys fer all the help.

September 11, 2005, 04:06 PM	#1
redranger1 Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Location: Iberia, MO Posts: 59	whats the deal here? guys, i need some help! i have a got a 9mm beretta. which also shoots a 9mm lugeror a 9x19. but i have some brass that has 9x21 stamped on the head. and finally i have got some winchester ammo that is 9x23. i have exhausted all of my books trying to find out info and what will work where etc. but havent fouund a thing! does anybody know anything about these? __________________ -Nathan

September 11, 2005, 04:38 PM	#2
Jeeper Senior Member Join Date: November 1, 2001 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 776	"Normal" 9mm is 9x19 also called 9mm Luger. The 19 is the length. Therefore 9x21 and 9x23 are longer cases and wont work in your gun. They are mainly used as rounds in IPSC. Basically they are different like a 38 and 357 or 44mag and special. There are other differences but they are basically just longer. __________________ Gun control theory - A woman raped and strangled is morally superior to a woman with a smoking gun and a dead rapist at her feet.

September 11, 2005, 04:42 PM	#3
redranger1 Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Location: Iberia, MO Posts: 59	so what type of guns shoot these rounds? anybody need them, i obviously cant use the loaded one, i recon i could trim the unloaded 9x21 down though. __________________ -Nathan

September 11, 2005, 06:18 PM	#4
Ozzieman Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 6,117	Probably not reload Spanish semi-automatic pistol in 9x23 Largo (Bergmann Bayard) caliber, manufactured by GABILONDO Y CIA, ELGOIBAR (ESPANA) in 1940 Since most of the 9/23 are Berdan primed and you cant reload berdan unless you find some way to remove the primer. Not easy. Berdan does not have the center hole like a conventional primer used in the US. Instead it has two smaller holes that are not centered in the primer pocket, there for a standard die with the primer pin will break off when trying to resize the cartrage. As cheep as 9mm is stay with it, but also be carful most cheep european 9mm is also berdan primed

September 11, 2005, 06:30 PM	#5
redranger1 Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Location: Iberia, MO Posts: 59	the 9x23 that i have is winchester manufactured 125 gr silvertip hp. a very nice lookin round, just useless to me. the 9x21 that i have is 500 rounds of unprimed brass ready to be loaded. __________________ -Nathan

September 12, 2005, 08:58 AM	#6
Quantrill Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 1999 Location: Arizona, USA Posts: 725	Going in the other direction; 9X18 is 9mmMackarov and that will SOMETIMES work in a 9mm Luger. There is also the 9mmCorto, 9mmshort and 9mmKurtz which are all the same cartridge known here as the .380acp. Quantrill

September 12, 2005, 11:29 AM	#7
Jeeper Senior Member Join Date: November 1, 2001 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 776	Since 9x19 brass is so cheap to buy I cant imagine wanting to waste your time by trimming anything. Take the 9x21 and stick it on ebay and they buy the correct brass for your gun. There are a lot of guns that can shoot 9x21. I am not trying to be critical of you but it seems that you are rather inexperienced with loading. I would really try to stick with using the right components until you get more experienced. This will prevent a lot of problems for you. __________________ Gun control theory - A woman raped and strangled is morally superior to a woman with a smoking gun and a dead rapist at her feet.

September 12, 2005, 11:57 AM	#8
hivel37 Senior Member Join Date: August 24, 2004 Location: Hill Country Posts: 522	Ditto Jeeper. 9x19 is way too plentiful to mess with trimming anything else. Trimming small cases is a painful exercise.

September 15, 2005, 09:21 AM	#9
redranger1 Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Location: Iberia, MO Posts: 59	jeeper, your right. i have never really reloaded anything before. i have inhereted all of my grandfathers reloading stuff and just dont have a place to set it up and do it myself. ive slowly been goin through it all and figuring out what i want to keep and organizing it all. thanks guys fer all the help. __________________ -Nathan