Kel-Tec 3AT .380 vs Ruger LCP .380, which one to buy?

[Bill DeShivs]

The Ruger is thicker and heavier-but it "looks higher quality." Same gun, just bigger, somehow equates to "better."
Interesting!

[HowardCohodas]

The Ruger is thicker and heavier-but it "looks higher quality." Same gun, just bigger, somehow equates to "better."
Interesting!

Actually, fit, finish and style are always perceived quality attributes. And they frequently translate into representing the quality of the overall product. Thus their effectiveness in sales success.

[dave421]

Yeah, you're right. Having a gun that has actually been finished obviously doesn't "look higher quality" than a gun that you have to take a razor blade to so that you can remove all the flash from the frame. Obviously having a gun with a bbl & other areas so rough that you have to do the KT fluff & buff is equal quality to a gun that has a feed ramp worth of they name & other surfaces that appear to have been inspected by someone a bit more qualified than the retarded half-blind monkeys that KT uses.

Seriously, if you're trying to buy a car are you going to sit there and say that Car A looks just as good as Car B even though it has orange peel & runs throughout the paint & panels that don't line up?

KT's look like Dollar Store rejects. I've never owned or even seen a gun that has poorer quality control than KT. My old Hi-Point was better finished than my P3AT. So, does the Ruger look higher quality? Yep. Does it feel higher quality? Yep. Is it higher quality? So far it looks like it. After all, I've not seen a thousand different how-tos explaining how to get your brand new Ruger to feed reliably nor have I seen a very large majority of owners saying "My LCP has been perfect ever since I got it back from it's second trip to the manufacturer for repairs that should have never been necessary."

[Playboypenguin]

The Ruger is thicker and heavier-but it "looks higher quality." Same gun, just bigger, somehow equates to "better."
Interesting!

I am not a gunsmith, but I do have production experience and one thing I can say for sure is that the polymer portions of this gun are definitely better. They are better formed, better cast, and better finished. Also, if I am not mistaken, the Ruger uses glass filled nylon while the Kel-Tec just uses a non-reinforced Dupont polymer. If anyone has any information feel free to add it.

As far as the slides and barrels go, I think they are fairly comparable. The Kel-Tec uses 4140 Ordnance grade steel and the Ruger uses a through-hardened steel. I am not sure how these two materials compare but I do know that the finish work on the Ruger is superior. The surface and edges are more polished and the finish seems more consistent. The slide to frame fit is also more consistent.

So when you take that into consideration, if the internals of the Ruger are even equal to the Kel-Tec it would still be a superior product for the money.

[esco_6781]

I have been wondering the same, I would like to buy something that I will more often carry with me and maybe buy one for my girl friend. I am not sure which yet, but I found this website very informative.

http://www.tucsonguns.com/Range_Repo...elTec_P3AT.php

[obxned]

The KelTec had problems with early production, and is bad-mouthed forever. The Ruger has similar problems and gets great reviews in gun mags and on forums, even while new problems keep arising.

[Bill DeShivs]

Some people can not comprehend the Keltec line of guns.

[Bill DeShivs]

"So when you take that into consideration, if the internals of the Ruger are even equal to the Kel-Tec it would still be a superior product for the money."

Except that the Ruger is thicker and heavier than the Keltec!

[bobdat]

I had both brands. Here's what I think:

The Ruger LCP is better looking and feels better but it's heavier and thicker. If I'm going to make compromises toward a bigger gun, I might as well go to a 9mm.

I never fired the Ruger because I learned that it was not a traditional Ruger! What it is, is a piece of recalled crap - a knockoff of the original KelTec P3AT. The LCP is made at a new 5-year-old facility just set up in the mountains of Arizona, not in the Connecticut River valley by the original Sturm Ruger & Company with its highly skilled artisans and tool & die makers. It has the Ruger name just like a WalMart TV made in Chow Mein, China has the RCA name. That's as RCA-ish or Ruger-ish as it gets!

Also located in Prescott, Arizona is J&G Sales, a gunsmith and gun distributor operation begun in the early 1970's. Bill Ruger was friends with the owners of J&G and invested millions in Ruger Ranch real estate when Prescott was a very tiny town. J&G Sales, the "other" factory/sales/gunsmith operation, never achieved a good reputation for quality or efficiency in the gun trade over 30 years. Yet, Ruger drew upon their people when it set up its facility just up the road. They're very nice people but they certainly are NOT craftsmen in the old Ruger tradition.

Also, why buy a gun from a company like Ruger that took the Mini-14 Collapsible Stock 223, and 20 & 30 round magazines AWAY FROM YOU! Just like Winchester taking away Black Talon and restricting Ranger ammo from you stupid, undeserving civilians! Screw these companies for their discriminatory marketing policies and de facto government ass-kissing! I ditched my Rugers and I don't shoot Winchester ammo. Call me bitter, but I spend my money with companies that SUPPORT their customers, just like KelTec does.

Now, is my KelTec P3AT 380 a collector's piece with its fine European craftsmanship? No. Is it a fun-to-shoot range gun with target sights and that good all-day-shooting feel? No. Is it the smallest, lightest, most reliable 380 ever produced to date? YES!!! And, that's what this is all about.

Fellow shooters, I bought FOUR P3AT's in November and I fired all of them flawlessly, 100-200 rounds, non-stop. I kept one for my daily carry; gave one to my girlfriend for daily carry; one to my brother for daily carry and stuck one in the safe for "insurance". These are the absolutely smallest, lightest, most reliable and concealable 380 pocket pistols I ever found in 35 years of LE and CCW carry. They are about as perfect as perfect gets for under $300.

I live in Florida and wear shorts and tees almost 365. I jog and bike where pitbulls and other "wildlife" roam. This is my 'friend'. I believe the KelTec 380 is THE WAY to go for a reliable concealable 380 pocket pistol.

I hope your P3AT is as reliable and accurate as mine. Best of luck.

[rogertc1]

The LCP is made by J&G Sales in Prescott, Arizona (in the mountains north of Phoenix). I have never known of one quality assembly job that J&G ever did since I dealt with them in 1983 - that's 25 years of schlocky gun sales. They're very nice people but they certainly are NOT craftsmen in the old Ruger tradition.

So Ruger contracts out the gun....interesting.

[Jkwas]

So Ruger contracts out the gun....interesting.

If true I think we'd all like to hear more about it.

[Bill DeShivs]

J&G is a distributor, not a gun manufacturer. Where did you get this information?

[speedfan]

I have owned mine since 2006, excellent product. It is not much fun to shoot, but keeps the first rule of a gun fight from being broken. Gun Test magazine liked the Kel Tec a little better. I have found it accurate up to 25 feet, that and it fires everytime is all I ask of this small a pistol.

[hihosilver]

I went ahead and got a KT because I could not find a ruger for months. Then the recall. So I said screw it. So far 100% after 300 rounds of blunt nose WWB and EMC. I am trying to find some of the Hornady Critical defense ammo for my carry ammo, but thats hard to find also.

[bobdat]

"J&G is a distributor, not a gun manufacturer. Where did you get this information?"

Please see above post

What else can I tell you?

Oh, yeah. I have no connection with KelTec and nobody is my sponsor for anything.

[GaryD]

Upgrading from a 32 to a 380 isn't much. I downgraded from a 380 Colt Mustang to the KelTec 32 for obvious carry reasons.

I guess I am saying that you might go back to the 32.

I have now added a CrimsonTrace laser grip to the KelTec. One consideration that you may miss is that the CT laser grip fits both the 32 and the 380 KelTec (and its very reasonable at about $160 with a front grip switch) and I doubt that CT has a laser grip for the new 380 Ruger.

[Michael Bane]

Gentlemen;

I don't post here much, but I thought I needed to speak out on some misperceptions. Ruger LCPs are manufactured in Ruger's manufacturing facility in Prescott, AZ. I know this for a fact because I have visited the facility many times. The last time I was there, I spent several hours on the LCP line watching them be made. J&G is also in Prescott, but as several have noted, it is a distributor, not a manufacturer of firearms. On my LCP, which I have in front of me as I write, it reads: "RUGER • PRESCOTT • AZ • USA"

I like the LCP a lot...unlike many, I lump all the "mouse cartridges" — .22, .25, .32, .38 Special, .380, 9X18 — into the same category, which is that EVERYTHING is shot placement and multiple shots. I have a lot of rounds through my LCP at this point, mostly the hot Corbon DPXs, and it has been 100% reliable and accurate within its designed use (I tested it at 7 yards). I also have a Kel-Tec .32 that is impossible to break...I tried, with 500+ rounds of hot Spanish surplus ball a few years back.

BTW, I once had occasion to point a mouse gun — my old Scott-Mackenzie-build Colt Mustang.380, which for a decade was my pocket pistol of choice — at a miscreant's head. He was a big miscreant, too. He didn't even laugh once...he just locked his hands behind his head and asked me what he had to do to go on living. Worked okay in my book.

Back to lurking!!!!

Michael B
Outdoor Channel

PS: Under the rules of total disclosure, Ruger is a sponsor of my television programs. I also shoot Ruger Blackhawks in cowboy action shooting under the alias of Wolf Bane. Ruger 20-round Mini-14 magazines are on sale from Ruger at $29.95 here: http://shopruger.com/webapp/wcs/stor...astCatId=19655

[Dave Spaulding]

Gentlemen,

I don't spend much time on the various forums, but I felt compelled to speak up on this particular issue. The posting that Ruger does not make the LCP is FALSE. I have been to the Prescott facility (with Michael Bane actually...) and I can assure all that the LCP is made by Ruger and not by another company. I have seen the production in action and shot the guns right off the assembly line. If you do not like the LCP, that is certainly fine, but don't NOT buy them because you are under the mistaken impression that the gun is not made by the parent company.

Thanks for your attention.

Dave Spaulding

[Ace_Breaker]

Thanks for the information Dave. Not sure why, but Roger posted his statement as a question to validate that information on another link, then posted it as fact here. He, in the past, has made it clear that he is not a fan of the LCP. He is a huge Taurus fan, so knows his quality when he see's it!

[rantingredneck]

Thanks for the information Dave. Not sure why, but Roger posted his statement as a question to validate that information on another link, then posted it as fact here. He, in the past, has made it clear that he is not a fan of the LCP. He is a huge Taurus fan, so knows his quality when he see's it!

He was actually quoting from bobdat's post in this thread (immediately above his, since edited).

[Ace_Breaker]

My fault, I saw him post this elsewhere before I saw it here. Knowing he's not an LCP fan I thought he was being funny. My apologies Roger.

[rmarti]

I Own Both In A 380 Caliber. I Paid About $30 More For The Ruger. In Appearance The Ruger Looks Better And Feels Better.

I Enjoy Shooting The Kel Tec More At The Range Because Of The Shooting Action. I Feel That The Ruger Has A Slight More Kick Than The Kel Tec. So In Rapid Fire I Do Better With The Kel Tec.

The Ruger Pinches My Shooting Finger When I Insert It To The Middle Of My Finger. When I Squeeze The Trigger It Pinches Me On The Bottom And When I Release It Pinches Me On The Top. I Have To Mentally Place My Shooting Finger In The First Third Of The Finger So As Not To Get Pinched. I Do Not Have The Same Problem With The Kel Tec.

The Kel Tec Has Been Very Reliable On The Range With Factory Ammo;however, When I Use Reloads It Has A Tendency To Jam Because It Misfires. It Appears To Have A Softer Pin So It Does Not Strike As Hard.

Like I Said, I Have Both But Up Until Now I Like Carrying My Kel Tec In My Jeans Front Pocket. So As Not To Have An Outline Of The Gun, I Put One Of My Wife's Dress Shoulder Pads In Front Of My Gun. There Is Just A Smooth Appearance And It Is Easy To Get To If I Should Need It. I Also Never Put Any Other Intrusive Objects In The Same Pocket, Such As Keys Or Coins.

[Rex B]

This subject is being debated on every gun forum I know of. All the debates are about the same.

I currently own 14 pocket pistols in .380. In 2007 I bought my third P3AT, HC slide over navy grip. Never a FTF/FTE failure. I bought a LCP last month, considering it to replace the Keltec.
When I go to the range I take several pistols to test. After getting set up and target in place, the first thing I do is draw my carry pistol and empty the magazine.
Twice now, I have done this and been rewarded with a 'click' and no bang. This was because the trigger had not reset, and hammer was not in firing position. The P3AT has no 2nd strike capability. Nor does the LCP, since it's a copy. This is a feature you want in a gun you will bet your life one?

So today I carry a Colt Mustang Pocketlite. It's a little heavier, a little thicker. It's all metal but for two pieces (plus the grips), it's a straightforward mechanical action. It has a good safety. It's accurate and it doesn't hurt my hand. I'm OK with single-action only. I like that the safety works with the hammer down or up. It was expensive. It cost more used, no box, than both the P3At and LCP combined.

When the Sig P238 becomes available, I'll probably buy one of those.


As an aside, that trigger/hammer design Keltec uses is just true for the P3AT and PF9. The P32 and the P11 have doublestrike capability.

[Bill DeShivs]

The P32 does not have double strike capability. The P11 does.

[Rex B]

You are correct Bill. I just checked.

I don't like that a bit, but I haven't seen anyone else comment on it.
Is that a non-issue to everyone else?