Timing issue on H&R top-break revolver

Sevens · December 21, 2014, 04:52 AM

First, a pic or two.
Here's the revolver:

It is an H&R "22 Special" top-break chambered in .22LR and the timing is off enough where it doesn't carry up all the way to it's intended stop, but not so much that it's spitting lead or otherwise dangerous to shoot.

Sevens · December 21, 2014, 05:01 AM

I wish I could get this picture to focus better, but...

Here are the notches on the rear of the cylinder.

Easier for me to see than appears in the picture, but these are not "clean" at all.

Can a ham-fisted neophyte clean this up without completely wrecking the function of this revolver, or is it far more involved than that?

And while on the subject, what causes a revolver to end up this way? By the looks of it, the pawl just tore this apart when the cylinder was somehow obstructed from free motion?

hartcreek · December 21, 2014, 09:09 AM

First off have you cleaned it yet? H&Rs are such a PITA for most folks with the pins that it probably never has been cleaned properly. A good cleaning and then relubeing could solve your problem.

Dixie Gunsmithing · December 21, 2014, 11:30 AM

This could have been over the metal on the ratchet teeth being soft. I'm not sure if you can still buy these extractors new, but Numrich may have them, and if not, you may have to look at other dealers. H&R parts used to be easy to get, but since Remington bought them, and discontinued the revolvers, things wont get better.

If you cant find a new extractor, you might find someway of adding some metal back, via TIG, and reshaping the teeth. However, I would look for another gun in poor shape, with an extractor in it, to use first. Look on eBay for one.

Last, you might check the cylinder stop, to see if it drops out of the cylinder before it starts to turn. It could be worn, and could cause the pawl to push hard on the ratchet teeth.

g.willikers · December 21, 2014, 11:48 AM

If the effort and expensive to cure it isn't justified, it might still be useful as is.
Sometimes changing the way you use it can alter its behavior.
Like using it double action, without staging the trigger, might motivate the cylinder to rotate that little bit farther, needed to lock up better for the next shot.
Just a thought.

Sevens · December 21, 2014, 11:59 AM

Truth is, it shoots pretty well as is. I snagged it simply because the top-break concept just seems interesting to me.

The proper design is somewhat odd (at least IMO) right from the get-go simply because the cylinder stop is just that -- a stop and not a lock. The cylinder is pushed to the end of it's travel and comes to rest at the stop location, but it is not LOCKED there, and never was locked there, even when it was new/unused.

James K · December 24, 2014, 12:19 AM

IIRC, H&R Revolver production ceased long before Remington acquired the name and assets. The original company went out of business in 1986. A new company, called H&R 1871, was formed in 1991 (a period of intense anti-gun activity) but never resumed production of revolvers. Marlin took them over in 2000, then Remington acquired Marlin in 2007. AFAIK, there was no H&R handgun production after 1986.

Edited to add: The above is true for H&R, which was the subject of the original post. But copies of some H&R revolver models were made up to 1999 under the New England Firearms name.

Jim

December 21, 2014, 04:52 AM	#1
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	Timing issue on H&R top-break revolver First, a pic or two. Here's the revolver: It is an H&R "22 Special" top-break chambered in .22LR and the timing is off enough where it doesn't carry up all the way to it's intended stop, but not so much that it's spitting lead or otherwise dangerous to shoot. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss. Last edited by Sevens; October 29, 2015 at 03:38 PM.

December 21, 2014, 05:01 AM	#2
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	I wish I could get this picture to focus better, but... Here are the notches on the rear of the cylinder. Easier for me to see than appears in the picture, but these are not "clean" at all. Can a ham-fisted neophyte clean this up without completely wrecking the function of this revolver, or is it far more involved than that? And while on the subject, what causes a revolver to end up this way? By the looks of it, the pawl just tore this apart when the cylinder was somehow obstructed from free motion? __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss. Last edited by Sevens; March 15, 2015 at 01:17 PM.

December 21, 2014, 11:48 AM	#5
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	If the effort and expensive to cure it isn't justified, it might still be useful as is. Sometimes changing the way you use it can alter its behavior. Like using it double action, without staging the trigger, might motivate the cylinder to rotate that little bit farther, needed to lock up better for the next shot. Just a thought. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

December 21, 2014, 11:59 AM	#6
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	Truth is, it shoots pretty well as is. I snagged it simply because the top-break concept just seems interesting to me. The proper design is somewhat odd (at least IMO) right from the get-go simply because the cylinder stop is just that -- a stop and not a lock. The cylinder is pushed to the end of it's travel and comes to rest at the stop location, but it is not LOCKED there, and never was locked there, even when it was new/unused. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

December 24, 2014, 12:19 AM	#7
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	IIRC, H&R Revolver production ceased long before Remington acquired the name and assets. The original company went out of business in 1986. A new company, called H&R 1871, was formed in 1991 (a period of intense anti-gun activity) but never resumed production of revolvers. Marlin took them over in 2000, then Remington acquired Marlin in 2007. AFAIK, there was no H&R handgun production after 1986. Edited to add: The above is true for H&R, which was the subject of the original post. But copies of some H&R revolver models were made up to 1999 under the New England Firearms name. Jim Last edited by James K; December 24, 2014 at 12:41 AM.

December 21, 2014, 09:09 AM	#3
hartcreek Junior member Join Date: April 22, 2014 Location: Washington Posts: 1,549	First off have you cleaned it yet? H&Rs are such a PITA for most folks with the pins that it probably never has been cleaned properly. A good cleaning and then relubeing could solve your problem.

December 21, 2014, 11:30 AM	#4
Dixie Gunsmithing Moderator Emeritus Join Date: April 27, 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,923	This could have been over the metal on the ratchet teeth being soft. I'm not sure if you can still buy these extractors new, but Numrich may have them, and if not, you may have to look at other dealers. H&R parts used to be easy to get, but since Remington bought them, and discontinued the revolvers, things wont get better. If you cant find a new extractor, you might find someway of adding some metal back, via TIG, and reshaping the teeth. However, I would look for another gun in poor shape, with an extractor in it, to use first. Look on eBay for one. Last, you might check the cylinder stop, to see if it drops out of the cylinder before it starts to turn. It could be worn, and could cause the pawl to push hard on the ratchet teeth.