85 gr bullets in .30 M1 Carbine

John Foley · February 3, 1999, 05:01 PM

Greetings,

I found some data, in the Hodgdon 1997 Reloaders Manual, for the following load:
85 grain bullet over 16.0 grains of H110 for a MV of 2356 fps. Sierra makes a 85gr RN for the .30 Mauser/ Tokarev (.308) 7.62x25.
I intend to try this combination. However, I have a few questions that I hope someone out there can answer.
1-Will I run into any seating depth, or cartridge OAL problems, with this bullet weight?
2-As this is a pistol bullet, designed for a maximum MV of about 1350 fps, what should I expect upon impact at 2350 fps.
Any info will be appreciated.
Simper Fi JRF

Walt Welch · February 3, 1999, 07:24 PM

John, why would you want to do that? I see no purpose for such a load.

If you are loading for pests, why not use a 110gr. hollow point? Also one company (Speer?) used to, and may still, make a bullet called the 'plinker.' This was basically a half-jacketed bullet, weighed 100gr., and was devastating on pests.

Your suggestion seems somewhat dangerous to me, as the light bullet combined with a slow powder may cause pressure fluctuations.

Hope this helps, Walt

Steve · February 4, 1999, 10:50 AM

Walt raises some good concerns. I personnaly have never seen or known anyone to load such light bullets in the carbine. My Hodgdon #26 Manual lists more options in the pistol section than the rifle section. It lists bullets as light as 77grs in both sections. In addition to Walt's comment, you also could have a very unstable bullet in flight. It may give very poor accuracy, plus if your using it for pest control, it may not do the job. Also, consider your own point, a pistol bullet at rifle velocities.

Yes, Speer still makes the Plinker. It is a 100gr half jacket bullet. It is constructed so that none of the exposed lead contacts the barrel. I have used these bullets on gophers and they work wonderful. They also function the action of my Inland carbine as if I were shooting 110gr ball.

Hope this helps. If you have any more questions, please post or email. :-)

Cheapo · February 4, 1999, 02:07 PM

John:

1. Use the Hodgdon OAL listing if they mention it. Otherwise, just seat to nominal OAL per the cartridge specs.

2. Does the Sierra manual, etc. really say the bullet is listed for maximum impact velocity of 1350 fps? What's your target? I believe that with critters up to coyote size, you'll have spectacular wounds and quick kills at shorter ranges, with a lot of hide damage. For "social" use, you could have either M16-style stopping power at 2000+ fps, or you could have failures to penetrate enough. As downrange speeds drop, it could be superior to std M1 carbine ball for stopping power, but that's not saying much according to reports I've heard.

3. In-flight stability should be great, as even the 110-gr. has a stability factor several times the minimum needed, at 1850 fps. A shorter, lighter bullet will be even more stable. IF you melt the core at extreme velocities from barrel friction, you could have mysterious "blue cloud" bullet blow-ups mid-flight, but I've never heard of these below 3500 fps.

4. If Hodgdon lists the load, the powder will almost certainly ignite reliably under that bullet. Since H110 is rather slow for pistols but fast for rifles, *reduced* loads are the only concern IMHO.

5. If it works for your intended target, this load could be an ideal urban social use/dense rural pest use load. Check out the downrange ballistics and see how short the max range is, and how pathetically low the velocities/energies are beyond 1,000 or even 600 yards...

John Foley · February 8, 1999, 05:27 PM

Steve and Cheapo,

Forgive me for not trying to reply to your separate posts in a single message. As you don't give your e-mail addresses I can't reply to you individually as I would prefer to do, as it's difficult to respond to all of the points you make this way.

I did receive a reply, from a Sierra representive, who stated that the bullet has been used in carbines with various results (I would be happy to forward it to you), if you would e-mail me. And I would answer your posts point by point.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

February 3, 1999, 05:01 PM	#1
John Foley Retired Screen Name Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 46	Greetings, I found some data, in the Hodgdon 1997 Reloaders Manual, for the following load: 85 grain bullet over 16.0 grains of H110 for a MV of 2356 fps. Sierra makes a 85gr RN for the .30 Mauser/ Tokarev (.308) 7.62x25. I intend to try this combination. However, I have a few questions that I hope someone out there can answer. 1-Will I run into any seating depth, or cartridge OAL problems, with this bullet weight? 2-As this is a pistol bullet, designed for a maximum MV of about 1350 fps, what should I expect upon impact at 2350 fps. Any info will be appreciated. Simper Fi JRF

February 3, 1999, 07:24 PM	#2
Walt Welch Senior Member Join Date: November 3, 1998 Location: Alamo, CA Posts: 424	John, why would you want to do that? I see no purpose for such a load. If you are loading for pests, why not use a 110gr. hollow point? Also one company (Speer?) used to, and may still, make a bullet called the 'plinker.' This was basically a half-jacketed bullet, weighed 100gr., and was devastating on pests. Your suggestion seems somewhat dangerous to me, as the light bullet combined with a slow powder may cause pressure fluctuations. Hope this helps, Walt

February 4, 1999, 10:50 AM	#3
Steve Junior Member Join Date: February 4, 1999 Posts: 2	Walt raises some good concerns. I personnaly have never seen or known anyone to load such light bullets in the carbine. My Hodgdon #26 Manual lists more options in the pistol section than the rifle section. It lists bullets as light as 77grs in both sections. In addition to Walt's comment, you also could have a very unstable bullet in flight. It may give very poor accuracy, plus if your using it for pest control, it may not do the job. Also, consider your own point, a pistol bullet at rifle velocities. Yes, Speer still makes the Plinker. It is a 100gr half jacket bullet. It is constructed so that none of the exposed lead contacts the barrel. I have used these bullets on gophers and they work wonderful. They also function the action of my Inland carbine as if I were shooting 110gr ball. Hope this helps. If you have any more questions, please post or email. :-)

February 4, 1999, 02:07 PM	#4
Cheapo Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 1998 Posts: 986	John: 1. Use the Hodgdon OAL listing if they mention it. Otherwise, just seat to nominal OAL per the cartridge specs. 2. Does the Sierra manual, etc. really say the bullet is listed for maximum impact velocity of 1350 fps? What's your target? I believe that with critters up to coyote size, you'll have spectacular wounds and quick kills at shorter ranges, with a lot of hide damage. For "social" use, you could have either M16-style stopping power at 2000+ fps, or you could have failures to penetrate enough. As downrange speeds drop, it could be superior to std M1 carbine ball for stopping power, but that's not saying much according to reports I've heard. 3. In-flight stability should be great, as even the 110-gr. has a stability factor several times the minimum needed, at 1850 fps. A shorter, lighter bullet will be even more stable. IF you melt the core at extreme velocities from barrel friction, you could have mysterious "blue cloud" bullet blow-ups mid-flight, but I've never heard of these below 3500 fps. 4. If Hodgdon lists the load, the powder will almost certainly ignite reliably under that bullet. Since H110 is rather slow for pistols but fast for rifles, reduced loads are the only concern IMHO. 5. If it works for your intended target, this load could be an ideal urban social use/dense rural pest use load. Check out the downrange ballistics and see how short the max range is, and how pathetically low the velocities/energies are beyond 1,000 or even 600 yards...

February 8, 1999, 05:27 PM	#5
John Foley Retired Screen Name Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 46	Steve and Cheapo, Forgive me for not trying to reply to your separate posts in a single message. As you don't give your e-mail addresses I can't reply to you individually as I would prefer to do, as it's difficult to respond to all of the points you make this way. I did receive a reply, from a Sierra representive, who stated that the bullet has been used in carbines with various results (I would be happy to forward it to you), if you would e-mail me. And I would answer your posts point by point.