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July 20, 2016, 07:50 PM | #1 |
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Double barrel project gun
Hey yall. I've always wanted a short double barrel, maybe 11-12'' (several inches in front of the hand-guard) with a full length butt stock. I have been perusing gunbroker to obtain a project double, but wanted advice from folks that have already been through the NFA process. Based on the research I have done, if I wanted to manufacture a previously purchased, legal length shotgun into an NFA SBS, I would first process the necessary paperwork, pay the $200 tax, and await the receipt of that tax stamp before cutting down said shotgun.
I do not know if I am comfortable cutting down the barrels myself, which would leave me with the option of having a gunsmith perform the work. If I went that route, what would that involve? I assume the gunsmith would have to also be a Class 3 dealer, but I do not know. All I am wanting done is the barrel cut down, the center void between the barrels filled (JB weld?), and cold blued. Maybe that wouldn't be too much to tackle myself after the necessary paperwork and stamp approval. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
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July 20, 2016, 09:16 PM | #2 |
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You are correct on the process.
If you take the barrels only to the gunsmith, there is no problem with him cutting them down. Don't take the action. Anyone can cut the barrels-as long as they aren't on the gun. |
July 20, 2016, 09:48 PM | #3 |
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The key here is who "makes" the SBS, and thus needs the license. If the gunsmith cuts down the barrels, HE has to have a manufacturer's license. You do not; you have to pay for the tax stamp to allow him to transfer the gun to you after the work is done. So, if you have a gunsmith with a manufacturers license make the SBS, you don't need a license, only the tax stamp to allow you to take possession of it.
But the tax stamp allows you to either take possession of an NFA firearm, or to manufacture an NFA firearm. So, alternatively, you can obtain the tax stamp, and then cut down the original shotgun; you are the manufacturer. You then can have any gunsmith finish up the job; he does not need any manufacturer's license to do that. (IIRC, though, you must accompany the SBS while he does the work and take it home when the store/shop is closed. It cannot be left at his shop while the work is in progress, like an ordinary shotgun could.) Jim |
July 20, 2016, 10:13 PM | #4 |
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Bill, you may be correct, but I can't find anything "official" that says that. If you have a cite I would appreciate it. (No, common sense is not enough - we are dealing with the federal government.)
So, basically, can any gunsmith (or anyone else) cut down a rifle/shotgun barrel below the 16"/18" limit without either having a tax stamp or a license, whether the barrel(s) are attached to a receiver or not? Jim |
July 20, 2016, 10:32 PM | #5 | |
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Quote:
If the OP takes in just the barrel to a gunsmith to have it shortened the gunsmith isn't "making" anything. When the OP then picks up the shortened barrel and assembles it to his receiver he "makes" the NFA firearm. Guys send off AR barrels all the time to have them shortened or shortened & threaded. Or they simply buy a short bbl upper when their stamp arrives. If you take the entire firearm to a gunsmith to have the bbls shortened. then yes, the gunsmith is the "maker".
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July 20, 2016, 10:55 PM | #6 |
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I am sure it will come as no surprise, but they seem to have made some changes in the rules, or in their interpretation of the rules, since I got that answer many years ago.
Jim |
July 21, 2016, 01:26 AM | #7 |
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Barrels are not a firearm.
The frame is the firearm. |
July 21, 2016, 09:57 AM | #8 |
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So, I could take the barrel assembly to a gunsmith have him cut it down and do the finishing work. It is not a NFA SBS item until it is assembled?
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July 21, 2016, 06:28 PM | #9 |
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Correct. You are the assembler.
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July 26, 2016, 10:26 AM | #10 |
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Actually.............the part with the "serial number" is considered to be the firearm. By the BATF-E, that is, not some wannabe lawyer.
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July 26, 2016, 11:55 AM | #11 |
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"...dealing with the federal government..." Makes no difference who's Federal government either. Ya'll get to comply with State law as well though.
We can have a short barrel on a shotgun(like 11 or 12"ers) if the barrel came like that out of the factory. No cutting one to below 18", by anybody though. "...having a gunsmith perform the work...." Legalities aside, I'd suggest you do that anyway. Barrels on doubles aren't always joined over the whole length and the rib, if there is one, may not be metal(never mind steel). After talking to the smithy/AFT about the laws. ATF's FAQ's say individuals cannot register an unregistered NFA firearm anyway. https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-...ional-firearms Also says the guy manufacturing SBS' must be licensed under the GCA and pay the required special (occupational) tax. https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/how-...l-nfa-firearms
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July 26, 2016, 04:41 PM | #12 | ||
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Quote:
Many firearms have their serial number in several places on the firearm....Glocks have it on barrel, slide and frame as do many FN/Browning Hi Powers. More accurately the frame or receiver MUST have a serial number. Quote:
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July 26, 2016, 04:50 PM | #13 | ||||
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Quote:
Note the term "not previously registered". A maker of an NFA firearm applies for his tax stamp BEFORE making the firearm. Quote:
Quote:
You are confusing "maker" vs "manufacturer". Anyone can be a maker, just submit the Form 1. Only licensees can pay the Special Occupational Tax to allow them to deal or manufacture NFA firearms. Quote:
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Need a FFL in Dallas/Plano/Allen/Frisco/McKinney ? Just EMAIL me. $20 transfers ($10 for CHL, active military,police,fire or schoolteachers) Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE |
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July 27, 2016, 02:15 PM | #14 |
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And here we have someone in Canada who doesn't understand the US laws giving advice.
And we have a "gunsmith" who doesn't understand what "frame or receiver" means. The "attack dogs" are out today- but they have no teeth. The frame or receiver is the "firearm." You can cut all the shotgun barrels you want, as short as you want-as long as you don't have the frame they go on. Barrels are unregulated. |
July 30, 2016, 12:28 PM | #15 | |
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Quote:
And if you apply for and receive the stamp, and take the barrels to a smith without the receiver, and you put the barrels back on after the cutting, you are the "maker". No issues.
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