Is the pump-action shotguns magazine that second barrel?

usmarine · January 19, 2005, 05:19 AM

I mean where pump-action shotguns keep their ammo.
How does chambering work?

PSE · January 19, 2005, 09:04 AM

UH, yes. thats were the ammo is. its called a tube magazine.
whats up? does the USMC not cover combat shotguns any longer?

Crosshair · January 19, 2005, 09:08 AM

If you mean the tube under the barrel, yes. Chambering works by the magazine spring pushing rounds toward the reciever. When you pump the action back, the spent shell is ejected. When you slide it back, a round gets fliped into line with the bore and pushed in with the bolt. That's the basics of it, someone could probably explain it better than me.

mete · January 19, 2005, 10:36 AM

The basics are that after you fire you pull back the forend. That extracts and ejects the empty case.At that point the shell carrier [the long hinged piece on the bottom] drops down and a round comes on to the carrier from the tubular magazine .You then push the forend forward and the carrier rises and puts the round up in front of the bolt and the bolt moves the round forward into the chamber. The rearward movement of the bolt has already cocked the hammer so the gun is ready to fire.

Lord_Nikon · January 19, 2005, 02:12 PM

I'm getting scared. Aparrently the marines don't teach recruits how any weapons function any more.

NSO_w/_SIG · January 19, 2005, 02:44 PM

They haven't shown him how to use a search button either.

I mean every single thread is of such a basic nature all the answers could easily be found by merely closing your eyes, rolling your mouse and clicking on a random thread.

Sorry sometimes I just think people post stuff just to see their name on the screen or their post count go up.

38splfan · January 19, 2005, 11:07 PM

Your reply was unneccessary and not in the spirit of this forum.

It was a valid question. I cannot speak for the Marines, but the Army does not cover the shotgun unless you are in an MOS or a combat situation that requires it's use. It is possible that usmarine just doesn't have the same experience with weapons outside of his/her service arms.

For those of you who took a moment to say something constructive to my fellow servicemember, thank you.

For NSO w/SIG: if you can't come up with anything more than a blind accusation, keep your fingers off the bloody keyboard.

For usmarine: yes, the tube under the barrel is the magazine. When you pull the slide back, it pushes a shell onto the carrier and simultaneously ejects the empty. When you push it forward, the carrier moves up and pushes the round into the chamber.
Hope that helps you. Keep on doing what you do. From an Army Grunt to a Devil Dog.... Hoorah, carry on!

Lord_Nikon · January 20, 2005, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 38splfan

I cannot speak for the Marines, but the Army does not cover the shotgun unless you are in an MOS or a combat situation that requires it's use.

They don't teach the M4 either? Or the M16? Or the M9? Etc, etc, ad nauseum...

I wonder what they do teach.

Nimitz87 · January 20, 2005, 12:31 AM

wow....not to offend you or anything but thats just bad that you dont know how a pump shot gun works...

dont mean to offend anyone but i really doubt that hes a Marine....anyone else notice the lower case m....

Lord_Nikon · January 20, 2005, 12:31 AM

Exactly.

chris in va · January 20, 2005, 12:46 AM

In other forums we call this a 'troll'.

38splfan · January 20, 2005, 12:47 AM

Lord_Nikon:

The weapon that was used for BRM instruction when I was in basic training (2002), and the one currently instructed with, is the M-16.
The M-4 is not yet Army-Wide, as such it is up to the individual unit to teach personnel to use what weapons are in the units armsroom.
For example, the combat shotgun is widely used by MP's and Infantry, so they train with it.
The M-9 is also primarily an special use weapon. (MP's, officers, etc.) and as such is not tought during Basic Rifle Marksmanship.

I am not saying that it is a good system, and I wish that all servicemembers had more familiarization with all weapons, but we don't. This is one of the items on my "If I ran the Army.." list.

The fact remains, most US Army personnel will never see official training on the shotgun, pistol, or other special purpose weapons unless their unit has the weapons. Once again I am not speaking for the Marines as I am not familiar with their training standards.

As far as I am aware, as the M-4 makes it's way into the ordnance mainstream, the M-16's will be refurbed and distributed to training units, so it does not appear that there will be much change in the Army marksmanship program.

Another pertinent observation: I saw the combat shotgun used very little in Mosul while I was there, except as a breaching tool. The units that we worked with had breaching team personnel carrying two weapons. The M-4 as a primary, and the breaching shotgun (pistol grip, don't know the model) slung snug and out of the way.

once again this is my personal experience and not necessarily the same throughout the service. It is based on the best information possible from two years of experience and research from the US Army MOS library online.

Edit: After reading the additional posts, just let me re-iterate that, as usual, I am not trying to offend anyone, and apologize if anyone feels that way.

Whether the poster is a Marine or not, NSO's post was very impolite and not in the spirit of civil conversation fostered by this board.

The rest of the info is an attempt to give a little more insight on the current Army Basic Rifle Marksmanship program, and to answer the question asked by Lord_Nikon. I hope it did so and would be happy to answer others as best as possible.

38splfan · January 20, 2005, 01:09 AM

After reading some of "usmarine"s posts, I feel very much like a jackass

If indeed usmarine is a Marine, he is lacking skills and knowledge related even to the M-16.
Either he is not a very high-speed Marine, or Corps BRM was ineffective.
His general lack of military knowledge now has me confused.
Most service-members have at least a little bit of military info/trivia stored in there. Especially regarding weapons function. And some of his questions are things the Corps should have answered, and now leave me with doubts about his service.
I hope that he would not intentionally adopt the name of a service he was/is not part of.

To all, I apologize.
To NSO in particular- While I do think that you were a bit impolite in your response, I apologize for my retort. Reading it now it seems offensive, and I regret not dissagreeing in a more polite manner. My most sincere apologies.

Lord_Nikon · January 20, 2005, 01:16 AM

Accepted happily.

NSO_w/_SIG · January 20, 2005, 07:47 AM

That is why at the top of my post I said "Based on all his threads".

Every single one of them he starts are of this nature.

That is like calling myself mr.mustang guy or something and then going into a mustang forum and asking what the two pipes coming out the back of my car are.

usmarine · January 20, 2005, 08:09 AM

...you've propably missunderstood.
I'm not a Marine, my friend is. He made me my profile. I wouldn't thought that he'll write this screen name and I don't know how to change it.
I'm sorry everyone, again.
I have my first gun just a few months ago and Jerry told me this site. And he has waken up my interesst to all sorts of weapons.

shaggy · January 20, 2005, 10:20 AM

Just to be clear, I don't think anyone here has a problem answering your questions, no matter how basic they may seem. I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I'm fairly certain most guys here are happy to answer all your questions and share their knowledge. I know I am. Someone answered all my stupid questions when I first got interested in guns and its only fair I return the favor by also helping out a new guy, now that I know a bit more.

That said, with a handle like "USMarine" people expect you to have more knowledge on weapons. "Marine" is a title that is earned - like doctor, esquire (lawyer), or judge. I can use the title "Esquire" after my name because I earned it by going to law school, passing the bar exam, and being admitted to practice law. If someone has the title "Doctor" in front of their name, its because they earned it by going to medical school and going through the lengthy process to practice medicine (or earning a doctoral degree in some specialized field of study). Similarly, the term "Marine" is a title that is earned by joining and serving your country in the United States Marine Corps.

I'm sure you meant no harm with that name but its not a title you earned, so perhaps you might consider a change. For what its worth, I hope you'll stick around and continue to ask and learn, though. You seem like you have a genuine interest and thats what a forum like this is all about; sharing knowledge.

too many choices!? · January 20, 2005, 10:56 AM

You jumped on one of your own(TFLers) thinking we were being anti social when if this guy is a US Marine I am a ham sandwich with cheese.....

I won't go so far as calling him a troll...but poser works just as well(I say this meanig no more harm than is due in using the name of the ARMED SERVICEES that have earned the titles....I don't think he took that name as an homage to them either.......if so Marines Rock or something would be better

.
You will find most people on this board don't like seeing the services used as an assumed title but one earned with BLOOD, SWEAT, and TEARS........... Don't pretend to be who u are not and you will be liked alot more

!

P.S A name change would eliminate these good natured ribbings

A shotgun is like any other gun with a tube magazine same idea as most lever action guns but with a pump cycler...

too many choices!? · January 20, 2005, 11:07 AM

Just did not know what to make of you with that name and those questions ...just didn't smell right. Thanx for the explaination I will have no more trouble responding to your questions and the ribbing will stop when I run out of jokes.....

Welcome to the board

.....May it be as good to you as it has been to me

ps If you do a search of the treads you can find alot of the basic imfo on most firearms out there it's fun and educational

. Without new questions then nobody gets to flex their mental muscle

IZinterrogator · January 20, 2005, 01:15 PM

TFL needs to have a range day in NE PA where usmarine could try out all of the weapons he has asked about. I'd take him myself, but my current location makes it slightly difficult. My normal location of Fort Hood wouldn't help either. Too bad, I try to replicate my company arms room in my collection (Mossberg 590A1, M9, AR-15). All I need now is a Benelli M4 Super90 and I'm set.

shaggy · January 20, 2005, 01:19 PM

IZinterrogator -

I'd be game for that. If someone can find me a range in eastern PA where full-auto is acceptable, I'd even bring a few MG's.

IZinterrogator · January 20, 2005, 04:00 PM

Quote:

If someone can find me a range in eastern PA where full-auto is acceptable, I'd even bring a few MG's.

If you're bringing the MGs, maybe we should hold off until I get my post-deployment leave dates finalized.

Nimitz87 · January 20, 2005, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by usmarine

I'm sorry everyone...

...you've propably missunderstood.
I'm not a Marine, my friend is. He made me my profile. I wouldn't thought that he'll write this screen name and I don't know how to change it.
I'm sorry everyone, again.
I have my first gun just a few months ago and Jerry told me this site. And he has waken up my interesst to all sorts of weapons.

no worries man

like shaggy said the title of a Marine is earned...so when someone puts that in there Handle/screen name its automatically asumed they are a Marine and have gone through the rigors of becoming one...

no harm no foul you didnt know.

i would suggest to you that you re-register....under a different name if you need help w/ that i'll be happy to assist you.

welcome to TFL....hopefully your rather "odd" way of intrudcing yourself and the replies you got wont scare you away from the great wealth of knowledge here....

good luck

Chad

38splfan · January 20, 2005, 08:59 PM

They are right, no biggie.
I owe all an apology for my over reactions, just caught me ona bad day

I would hate to think that I offended anyone and I apologize.
For those I jumped all over, I also apologize.
Wish I hadn't, and will try better to think before typing in the future.

Apologize to all.

43061 · January 21, 2005, 05:12 AM

I spent twenty-one years in the Army and cannot think of a single time I ever saw a shotgun.

I agree with what some of you wrote about earning titles, I’ve got a couple of them too, Police Officer and 1SG, USA, Ret. I hope this kid comes back no matter what name he uses though. I have some pretty basic questions about some things myself, for example, I don’t know anything about IDPA shooting, or 3 gun shooting, or goose hunting, or turkey hunting, or can you believe I’ve never shot a deer? Want to know why? I didn’t have a dad to teach me how to clean one after I shot it. I’ve always been too embarrassed to admit I didn’t know how to and its guys that make others feel stupid that rob them of the same experiences. Can we afford to keep doing that?

January 19, 2005, 05:19 AM	#1
usmarine Junior member Join Date: January 7, 2005 Location: New York, NY Posts: 26	Is the pump-action shotguns magazine that second barrel? I mean where pump-action shotguns keep their ammo. How does chambering work?

January 19, 2005, 02:12 PM	#5
Lord_Nikon Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 401	I'm getting scared. Aparrently the marines don't teach recruits how any weapons function any more. __________________ Despite the cost of living, have you noticed how it remains so popular?

January 19, 2005, 02:44 PM	#6
NSO_w/_SIG Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2004 Posts: 553	Based on all his threads They haven't shown him how to use a search button either. I mean every single thread is of such a basic nature all the answers could easily be found by merely closing your eyes, rolling your mouse and clicking on a random thread. Sorry sometimes I just think people post stuff just to see their name on the screen or their post count go up.

January 19, 2005, 11:07 PM	#7
38splfan Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2004 Location: Ft. Lewis/Tacoma, WA. Posts: 1,034	Nso Your reply was unneccessary and not in the spirit of this forum. It was a valid question. I cannot speak for the Marines, but the Army does not cover the shotgun unless you are in an MOS or a combat situation that requires it's use. It is possible that usmarine just doesn't have the same experience with weapons outside of his/her service arms. For those of you who took a moment to say something constructive to my fellow servicemember, thank you. For NSO w/SIG: if you can't come up with anything more than a blind accusation, keep your fingers off the bloody keyboard. For usmarine: yes, the tube under the barrel is the magazine. When you pull the slide back, it pushes a shell onto the carrier and simultaneously ejects the empty. When you push it forward, the carrier moves up and pushes the round into the chamber. Hope that helps you. Keep on doing what you do. From an Army Grunt to a Devil Dog.... Hoorah, carry on! __________________ "I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to others and I expect the same from them." - John Wayne Last edited by 38splfan; January 19, 2005 at 11:29 PM. Reason: Rewording.

January 20, 2005, 12:31 AM	#10
Lord_Nikon Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 401	Exactly. __________________ Despite the cost of living, have you noticed how it remains so popular?

January 19, 2005, 09:04 AM	#2
PSE Junior member Join Date: July 23, 2004 Location: stupids womb, SC Posts: 475	UH, yes. thats were the ammo is. its called a tube magazine. whats up? does the USMC not cover combat shotguns any longer?

January 19, 2005, 09:08 AM	#3
Crosshair Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2004 Location: Grand Forks, ND Posts: 5,333	If you mean the tube under the barrel, yes. Chambering works by the magazine spring pushing rounds toward the reciever. When you pump the action back, the spent shell is ejected. When you slide it back, a round gets fliped into line with the bore and pushed in with the bolt. That's the basics of it, someone could probably explain it better than me.

January 19, 2005, 10:36 AM	#4
mete Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2004 Location: NY State Posts: 6,575	The basics are that after you fire you pull back the forend. That extracts and ejects the empty case.At that point the shell carrier [the long hinged piece on the bottom] drops down and a round comes on to the carrier from the tubular magazine .You then push the forend forward and the carrier rises and puts the round up in front of the bolt and the bolt moves the round forward into the chamber. The rearward movement of the bolt has already cocked the hammer so the gun is ready to fire.

January 20, 2005, 12:31 AM	#9
Nimitz87 Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2004 Location: Cooper City,Fl Posts: 369	wow....not to offend you or anything but thats just bad that you dont know how a pump shot gun works... dont mean to offend anyone but i really doubt that hes a Marine....anyone else notice the lower case m....

January 20, 2005, 12:46 AM	#11
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	In other forums we call this a 'troll'.

January 20, 2005, 12:47 AM	#12
38splfan Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2004 Location: Ft. Lewis/Tacoma, WA. Posts: 1,034	Teaching. Lord_Nikon: The weapon that was used for BRM instruction when I was in basic training (2002), and the one currently instructed with, is the M-16. The M-4 is not yet Army-Wide, as such it is up to the individual unit to teach personnel to use what weapons are in the units armsroom. For example, the combat shotgun is widely used by MP's and Infantry, so they train with it. The M-9 is also primarily an special use weapon. (MP's, officers, etc.) and as such is not tought during Basic Rifle Marksmanship. I am not saying that it is a good system, and I wish that all servicemembers had more familiarization with all weapons, but we don't. This is one of the items on my "If I ran the Army.." list. The fact remains, most US Army personnel will never see official training on the shotgun, pistol, or other special purpose weapons unless their unit has the weapons. Once again I am not speaking for the Marines as I am not familiar with their training standards. As far as I am aware, as the M-4 makes it's way into the ordnance mainstream, the M-16's will be refurbed and distributed to training units, so it does not appear that there will be much change in the Army marksmanship program. Another pertinent observation: I saw the combat shotgun used very little in Mosul while I was there, except as a breaching tool. The units that we worked with had breaching team personnel carrying two weapons. The M-4 as a primary, and the breaching shotgun (pistol grip, don't know the model) slung snug and out of the way. once again this is my personal experience and not necessarily the same throughout the service. It is based on the best information possible from two years of experience and research from the US Army MOS library online. Edit: After reading the additional posts, just let me re-iterate that, as usual, I am not trying to offend anyone, and apologize if anyone feels that way. Whether the poster is a Marine or not, NSO's post was very impolite and not in the spirit of civil conversation fostered by this board. The rest of the info is an attempt to give a little more insight on the current Army Basic Rifle Marksmanship program, and to answer the question asked by Lord_Nikon. I hope it did so and would be happy to answer others as best as possible. __________________ "I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to others and I expect the same from them." - John Wayne

January 20, 2005, 01:09 AM	#13
38splfan Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2004 Location: Ft. Lewis/Tacoma, WA. Posts: 1,034	Wow! After reading some of "usmarine"s posts, I feel very much like a jackass If indeed usmarine is a Marine, he is lacking skills and knowledge related even to the M-16. Either he is not a very high-speed Marine, or Corps BRM was ineffective. His general lack of military knowledge now has me confused. Most service-members have at least a little bit of military info/trivia stored in there. Especially regarding weapons function. And some of his questions are things the Corps should have answered, and now leave me with doubts about his service. I hope that he would not intentionally adopt the name of a service he was/is not part of. To all, I apologize. To NSO in particular- While I do think that you were a bit impolite in your response, I apologize for my retort. Reading it now it seems offensive, and I regret not dissagreeing in a more polite manner. My most sincere apologies. __________________ "I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to others and I expect the same from them." - John Wayne

January 20, 2005, 01:16 AM	#14
Lord_Nikon Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 401	Accepted happily. __________________ Despite the cost of living, have you noticed how it remains so popular?

January 20, 2005, 07:47 AM	#15
NSO_w/_SIG Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2004 Posts: 553	Yup That is why at the top of my post I said "Based on all his threads". Every single one of them he starts are of this nature. That is like calling myself mr.mustang guy or something and then going into a mustang forum and asking what the two pipes coming out the back of my car are.

January 20, 2005, 08:09 AM	#16
usmarine Junior member Join Date: January 7, 2005 Location: New York, NY Posts: 26	I'm sorry everyone... ...you've propably missunderstood. I'm not a Marine, my friend is. He made me my profile. I wouldn't thought that he'll write this screen name and I don't know how to change it. I'm sorry everyone, again. I have my first gun just a few months ago and Jerry told me this site. And he has waken up my interesst to all sorts of weapons.

January 20, 2005, 10:20 AM	#17
shaggy Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2004 Posts: 1,519	"USMarine" Just to be clear, I don't think anyone here has a problem answering your questions, no matter how basic they may seem. I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I'm fairly certain most guys here are happy to answer all your questions and share their knowledge. I know I am. Someone answered all my stupid questions when I first got interested in guns and its only fair I return the favor by also helping out a new guy, now that I know a bit more. That said, with a handle like "USMarine" people expect you to have more knowledge on weapons. "Marine" is a title that is earned - like doctor, esquire (lawyer), or judge. I can use the title "Esquire" after my name because I earned it by going to law school, passing the bar exam, and being admitted to practice law. If someone has the title "Doctor" in front of their name, its because they earned it by going to medical school and going through the lengthy process to practice medicine (or earning a doctoral degree in some specialized field of study). Similarly, the term "Marine" is a title that is earned by joining and serving your country in the United States Marine Corps. I'm sure you meant no harm with that name but its not a title you earned, so perhaps you might consider a change. For what its worth, I hope you'll stick around and continue to ask and learn, though. You seem like you have a genuine interest and thats what a forum like this is all about; sharing knowledge.

January 20, 2005, 10:56 AM	#18
too many choices!? Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2004 Posts: 371	You should be sorry 38splfan..... You jumped on one of your own(TFLers) thinking we were being anti social when if this guy is a US Marine I am a ham sandwich with cheese..... I won't go so far as calling him a troll...but poser works just as well(I say this meanig no more harm than is due in using the name of the ARMED SERVICEES that have earned the titles....I don't think he took that name as an homage to them either.......if so Marines Rock or something would be better . You will find most people on this board don't like seeing the services used as an assumed title but one earned with BLOOD, SWEAT, and TEARS........... Don't pretend to be who u are not and you will be liked alot more ! P.S A name change would eliminate these good natured ribbings A shotgun is like any other gun with a tube magazine same idea as most lever action guns but with a pump cycler...

January 20, 2005, 11:07 AM	#19
too many choices!? Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2004 Posts: 371	U.S. Marine I don't think an apology is needed as no malice was intended..... Just did not know what to make of you with that name and those questions ...just didn't smell right. Thanx for the explaination I will have no more trouble responding to your questions and the ribbing will stop when I run out of jokes..... Welcome to the board .....May it be as good to you as it has been to me ps If you do a search of the treads you can find alot of the basic imfo on most firearms out there it's fun and educational . Without new questions then nobody gets to flex their mental muscle

January 20, 2005, 01:15 PM	#20
IZinterrogator Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2004 Location: Prescott Valley, AZ Posts: 2,457	I think the solution to usmarine's curiousity is obvious TFL needs to have a range day in NE PA where usmarine could try out all of the weapons he has asked about. I'd take him myself, but my current location makes it slightly difficult. My normal location of Fort Hood wouldn't help either. Too bad, I try to replicate my company arms room in my collection (Mossberg 590A1, M9, AR-15). All I need now is a Benelli M4 Super90 and I'm set. __________________ "If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!” - Samuel Adams

January 20, 2005, 01:19 PM	#21
shaggy Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2004 Posts: 1,519	IZinterrogator - I'd be game for that. If someone can find me a range in eastern PA where full-auto is acceptable, I'd even bring a few MG's.

January 20, 2005, 08:59 PM	#24
38splfan Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2004 Location: Ft. Lewis/Tacoma, WA. Posts: 1,034	Yup. They are right, no biggie. I owe all an apology for my over reactions, just caught me ona bad day I would hate to think that I offended anyone and I apologize. For those I jumped all over, I also apologize. Wish I hadn't, and will try better to think before typing in the future. Apologize to all. __________________ "I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to others and I expect the same from them." - John Wayne

January 21, 2005, 05:12 AM	#25
43061 Member Join Date: January 9, 2005 Location: Nebraska Posts: 45	I spent twenty-one years in the Army and cannot think of a single time I ever saw a shotgun. I agree with what some of you wrote about earning titles, I’ve got a couple of them too, Police Officer and 1SG, USA, Ret. I hope this kid comes back no matter what name he uses though. I have some pretty basic questions about some things myself, for example, I don’t know anything about IDPA shooting, or 3 gun shooting, or goose hunting, or turkey hunting, or can you believe I’ve never shot a deer? Want to know why? I didn’t have a dad to teach me how to clean one after I shot it. I’ve always been too embarrassed to admit I didn’t know how to and its guys that make others feel stupid that rob them of the same experiences. Can we afford to keep doing that?