Crimping on 223.

compglock17 · December 17, 2011, 10:58 AM

I was planing on crimping mine, light to medium, as they will be used in the AR platform and a large amont of rapid fire scinarios. I have heard I should crimp in the auto loader, but its not needed in my bolt guns. That sound about right to you all?

Jim243 · December 17, 2011, 11:00 AM

That is correct, but a light crimp on cases used in a bolt gun will not drasticly effect those either. Just do a VERY LIGHT crimp to insure that the case mouth is uniform all the way around the bullet and that will help accuracy.

Jim

compglock17 · December 17, 2011, 11:03 AM

Very good! Thanks Jim

savagelover · December 17, 2011, 11:53 AM

I have never used a crimp on the ammo for my AR...first plave the bullets have no cannalor spelling..that is a crimping groove on the bullet so no crimp can be used...

kraigwy · December 17, 2011, 12:27 PM

I've been shooting and loading 223s for a long time, longer then I'd like to admit, and I've never saw the need to crimp 223s, with or with out a cannalor. Even my match loads used at 600 & 1000 yards.

In fact I never crimp any of my rifle loads, the only exception was for my 45-70. But even then, when I started shooting with the BP Creedmor guys I found I was screwing up. These guys didn't crimp their lead LR BP rifles. Many, the ones winning the match didnt eve seat their bullet until just before they fired. Then they would hand seat the bullets.

Of course you can't do that with 223s but still you don't need a crimp. Just make sure the sizing die gets the neck sized propertly.

compglock17 · December 17, 2011, 12:42 PM

Will a light crimp hurt? Im just looking for high volume training and it would give me a bit of piece of mind, being new to rifle reloading, to have a crimp in the AR rounds. Minute detriment to accuracy is not a concern here. Now, when I get me 22-250 reloads going, I have no plans to crimp them, and will definitely be seeking all advise from here, as I am looking for the best accuracy I can get

mehavey · December 17, 2011, 01:09 PM

Light crimp (none of this DIY cannelure stuff) won't hurt.
Just be sure case lengths are "reasonably" uniform (or the crimps won't be)

CherokeeT · December 17, 2011, 01:38 PM

Light crimps should be fine, just to make the the case mouth is tight against the bulet. Otherwise, no crimp.

HJ857 · December 17, 2011, 03:33 PM

It seems to me that the first question to ask before answering anything is - are you using the crimp function of a seater die, or are you using a Lee FCD?

Second, do your intended bullets have a cannelure?

compglock17 · December 17, 2011, 05:43 PM

Lee FCD and yes they do.

chris in va · December 17, 2011, 05:57 PM

I FCD all my 223's just for the heck of it. Had one case mouth a bit out of spec and the bullet got set back more than I liked.

HJ857 · December 17, 2011, 11:15 PM

My AR usage is exactly the same as yours with a lot of competitions thrown in. The most I need is to hit a bowling pin size target at a hundred or so yards or a somewhat larger plate out to 200 yards. So benchrest accuracy is not even a consideration.

Most folks seem to believe that the crimp question is answered by a one size fits all response. I think your best bet is to test it. If crimping makes little or no difference, then it's not hurting anything and likely giving you some peace of mind that your bullets aren't going to move around in the casing after some hard abuse.

My feeling is that if the bullets have a cannelure, and you're seating to the cannelure, then the FCD makes no sense. Use the crimp in the seater die instead.

If you seat the bullets long and the cannelure doesn't make it all the way to the case mouth, then the FCD is a good solution. I use a cheap 55 grain bullet and my testing showed the cannelured version shot more accurately than the non-cannelure, so I use the cannelure types. However I seat them as long as possible while still fitting in to a PMag, the cannelure is not even close to being at the case mouth, so I use the FCD on them and I treat them as if they don't have a cannelure.

As stated by others, I crimp light. The FCD is fully capable of creating a "cannelure" in the bullet by basically squashing it to death. There's no good reason to crimp to that level. Just enough to ensure that the case mouth snugs up to the bullet and makes a nice smooth transition.

For me crimping is another step towards building the most reliable ammo possible. Using that same rationale, a case in which the primer inserts with too little force gets thrown out. A completed round that does not properly insert in to a case/chamber gauge gets disassembled.

If you use your AR and the ammo you make for it for tactical competition or if you think it's a defensive tool, then reliability is first and foremost, and in my experience all AR failures are ammo related.

Having said all that, I do also load a "match grade" AR round, and I don't crimp that, but I have far different expectations for those rounds.

And as always, it's just one person's opinion.

compglock17 · December 18, 2011, 01:19 AM

Thanks HJ. I do run the gun hard both in training/practice and in the comps I shoot and am a bit concerned of the bullet moving in the mouth. I like your suggestion of testing different loads as to FCD, crimping with the seating die and no crimp at all. I will give all three a shot (pun intended!) and see what works best for me. Looks like it all boils down to personal choice for what my needs are!

December 17, 2011, 10:58 AM	#1
compglock17 Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2011 Location: Ohio Posts: 103	Crimping on 223. I was planing on crimping mine, light to medium, as they will be used in the AR platform and a large amont of rapid fire scinarios. I have heard I should crimp in the auto loader, but its not needed in my bolt guns. That sound about right to you all? __________________ "You can't miss fast enough to win!" "Smooth is fast if you practice to be fast! Slow is just f__ing slow!" Words of wisdom from C!

December 17, 2011, 11:00 AM	#2
Jim243 Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2009 Location: Just off Route 66 Posts: 5,067	That is correct, but a light crimp on cases used in a bolt gun will not drasticly effect those either. Just do a VERY LIGHT crimp to insure that the case mouth is uniform all the way around the bullet and that will help accuracy. Jim __________________ Si vis pacem, para bellum

December 17, 2011, 11:03 AM	#3
compglock17 Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2011 Location: Ohio Posts: 103	Very good! Thanks Jim __________________ "You can't miss fast enough to win!" "Smooth is fast if you practice to be fast! Slow is just f__ing slow!" Words of wisdom from C!

December 17, 2011, 12:27 PM	#5
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	I've been shooting and loading 223s for a long time, longer then I'd like to admit, and I've never saw the need to crimp 223s, with or with out a cannalor. Even my match loads used at 600 & 1000 yards. In fact I never crimp any of my rifle loads, the only exception was for my 45-70. But even then, when I started shooting with the BP Creedmor guys I found I was screwing up. These guys didn't crimp their lead LR BP rifles. Many, the ones winning the match didnt eve seat their bullet until just before they fired. Then they would hand seat the bullets. Of course you can't do that with 223s but still you don't need a crimp. Just make sure the sizing die gets the neck sized propertly. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

December 17, 2011, 12:42 PM	#6
compglock17 Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2011 Location: Ohio Posts: 103	Will a light crimp hurt? Im just looking for high volume training and it would give me a bit of piece of mind, being new to rifle reloading, to have a crimp in the AR rounds. Minute detriment to accuracy is not a concern here. Now, when I get me 22-250 reloads going, I have no plans to crimp them, and will definitely be seeking all advise from here, as I am looking for the best accuracy I can get __________________ "You can't miss fast enough to win!" "Smooth is fast if you practice to be fast! Slow is just f__ing slow!" Words of wisdom from C!

December 17, 2011, 11:53 AM	#4
savagelover Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2011 Location: Alpine,,NY Posts: 254	I have never used a crimp on the ammo for my AR...first plave the bullets have no cannalor spelling..that is a crimping groove on the bullet so no crimp can be used...

December 17, 2011, 01:09 PM	#7
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,894	Light crimp (none of this DIY cannelure stuff) won't hurt. Just be sure case lengths are "reasonably" uniform (or the crimps won't be)

December 17, 2011, 01:38 PM	#8
CherokeeT Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2008 Location: Medina, Ohio Posts: 273	Light crimps should be fine, just to make the the case mouth is tight against the bulet. Otherwise, no crimp. __________________ God Bless America US Army, NRA Endowment TSRA Life, SASS

December 17, 2011, 03:33 PM	#9
HJ857 Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2007 Posts: 447	It seems to me that the first question to ask before answering anything is - are you using the crimp function of a seater die, or are you using a Lee FCD? Second, do your intended bullets have a cannelure?

December 17, 2011, 05:43 PM	#10
compglock17 Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2011 Location: Ohio Posts: 103	Lee FCD and yes they do. __________________ "You can't miss fast enough to win!" "Smooth is fast if you practice to be fast! Slow is just f__ing slow!" Words of wisdom from C!

December 17, 2011, 05:57 PM	#11
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	I FCD all my 223's just for the heck of it. Had one case mouth a bit out of spec and the bullet got set back more than I liked.

December 17, 2011, 11:15 PM	#12
HJ857 Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2007 Posts: 447	My AR usage is exactly the same as yours with a lot of competitions thrown in. The most I need is to hit a bowling pin size target at a hundred or so yards or a somewhat larger plate out to 200 yards. So benchrest accuracy is not even a consideration. Most folks seem to believe that the crimp question is answered by a one size fits all response. I think your best bet is to test it. If crimping makes little or no difference, then it's not hurting anything and likely giving you some peace of mind that your bullets aren't going to move around in the casing after some hard abuse. My feeling is that if the bullets have a cannelure, and you're seating to the cannelure, then the FCD makes no sense. Use the crimp in the seater die instead. If you seat the bullets long and the cannelure doesn't make it all the way to the case mouth, then the FCD is a good solution. I use a cheap 55 grain bullet and my testing showed the cannelured version shot more accurately than the non-cannelure, so I use the cannelure types. However I seat them as long as possible while still fitting in to a PMag, the cannelure is not even close to being at the case mouth, so I use the FCD on them and I treat them as if they don't have a cannelure. As stated by others, I crimp light. The FCD is fully capable of creating a "cannelure" in the bullet by basically squashing it to death. There's no good reason to crimp to that level. Just enough to ensure that the case mouth snugs up to the bullet and makes a nice smooth transition. For me crimping is another step towards building the most reliable ammo possible. Using that same rationale, a case in which the primer inserts with too little force gets thrown out. A completed round that does not properly insert in to a case/chamber gauge gets disassembled. If you use your AR and the ammo you make for it for tactical competition or if you think it's a defensive tool, then reliability is first and foremost, and in my experience all AR failures are ammo related. Having said all that, I do also load a "match grade" AR round, and I don't crimp that, but I have far different expectations for those rounds. And as always, it's just one person's opinion.

December 18, 2011, 01:19 AM	#13
compglock17 Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2011 Location: Ohio Posts: 103	Thanks HJ. I do run the gun hard both in training/practice and in the comps I shoot and am a bit concerned of the bullet moving in the mouth. I like your suggestion of testing different loads as to FCD, crimping with the seating die and no crimp at all. I will give all three a shot (pun intended!) and see what works best for me. Looks like it all boils down to personal choice for what my needs are! __________________ "You can't miss fast enough to win!" "Smooth is fast if you practice to be fast! Slow is just f__ing slow!" Words of wisdom from C!