Revolver philosophy and reliability vs. semiauto guns - Page 2

tallball · October 31, 2014, 11:02 AM

I am sorry if I seemed rude in my previous post. I was in a hurry. I have owned somewhere between 15 and 20 revolvers in my life, probably closer to 20. One gave me problems the first time I took it shooting, so I cleaned it thoroughly and went out to the range again. It acted up the second time, so I got rid of it. The rest have all been completely reliable. You were sold a defective revolver. Smith and Wesson needs to honor their warranty.

I've owned about a dozen semi-autos. Coincidentally, one gave me problems so I got rid of it. The rest have been fine.

In my mind the only real difference is that even the best semi-autos will malfunction if it happens to encounter a defective round of ammunition, and that is extremely rare. Other than that, IMHO a good modern firearm will be reliable. You just got unlucky and got a bad one.

Bowdog · October 31, 2014, 11:16 AM

I shoot about 3000 rounds a season. Most in SAA .45 Colt, Ruger Vaquero and Taylor & Co.(Uberti). Light loads and full house. Screws come loose, it is a fact of life.

davem · October 31, 2014, 11:18 AM

Dear Darker: just started reading thread.... First, IMHO a semi-auto has less parts and is more reliable than a revolver. The troubles begin with shooters that don't shoot a semi-auto correctly and get stove pipe jams, etc. from limp wrist holds, etc.
On the revolvers, you need a top quality and Smith and Wesson used to be tops, they made they own screws in the factory, whole deal. I don't like the looks of the new Smith & Wessons and I don't think the guns are as good as what they made years ago. The old guns may be blued steel but they were works of art. I have all the various sized frames and have never had any trouble with the screws loosening up. On the other hand you are doing a lot of shooting. I am a neat freak, always stripping down the revolvers and cleaning them (I have a lot of semi-autos as well). IAE it seems to me you ought to be able to run 1,000 min through a handgun without troubles. I ran 2,0000 through a Browning HP before I decided to do more than routine cleaning and strip it down and do it up right. If the screws are loosening up on every session then maybe there was some type of manufacturers flaw. See if you can get new screws, if they are backing out maybe lightly tap and distort the threads to make them fit tighter and see if that works (provided you have the back up set of screws/bolts).
I'm sure years ago if you called the factory and explained the situation they would have taken the gun back and made it right but today- probably not.
When it comes to firearms, I'll pay more to get more. Quality is everything. Buy your girlfriend drug store candy and eat at McDonalds but don't ever skimp on firearms.

Darker Loaf · October 31, 2014, 02:01 PM

RE silvermane_1: Yeah, you've noticed a trend, too, huh? It's so sad. I buy quality to avoid QC issues. Maybe I should just stick to Keltec and Taurus or something, and if I get a bad one, just throw it in a pond and by a new one.

I've heard nothing but good things about Smith's customer service. I'm just not looking forward to sending yet another gun back in. I'm crossing my fingers that they won't be like Arsenal or EAA and tell me that they've "fixed" my gun, when really they just put the same parts back in the same places without doing anything--or frankly even listening to me when I tell them what I've seen go wrong.

Darker Loaf · October 31, 2014, 02:12 PM

I didn't intend to start the thread to flame revolvers, but more so to express my frustration with what should be a reliable and IS a fun, accurate, and seemingly well-made gun. But even with my horrible track record with firearms, this revolver takes the cake. And since I've been unlucky with firearms in the past and am new to revolvers, I wanted feedback (which I've gotten) on if the screw-backing out was normal or if it had something to do with the rapidity of which I've fired the gun or something else I'm missing.

It sounds like some very experienced revolver owners suggest one of two things:

1) The screw backing out is normal maintenance on revolvers. No normal firearm I've ever owned or fired (other than some terribly tight-fitted 1911's) has needed maintenance every 100-200 rounds to go "BANG!"

NOTE: The most frustrating screw-backing out is the strain screw (did I get the name right this time?), because that's what's causing the reliability issues. I think the rear sight should stay put now, though, that I've blue locktited it. I've blue locktited the strain screw, too, so maybe I'll be OK now? I'm just worried since the factory red locktited side-plate screw backed out after vigorous firing that my blue locktited screws will back out easily after a 200-300 round session.

2) S&W should service/warranty my gun.

The redneck/handyman in me just sees this a maintenance issue, because how could a factory screw up screws? By having a too-large a diameter screw-hole or too-small a diameter screw?

buck460XVR · October 31, 2014, 02:30 PM

Quote:

It's so funny that you should say this, since if you had read my OP (as others have pointed out), the side-plate screw was factory red locktighted. So, S&W shouldn't be in the business of making guns if that's your logic.

I have serious doubts as to S&W using an inappropriate thread locker designed for bigger fasteners and requiring heat to disassemble on screws that are intended to be removed. I've used thread locker on many screws on my S&W and other firearms. But never Red. Even then I regularly check screws for loosening after extended range sessions. Just the nature of the beast....and I have some beasts. Some of the problems may be related to the expansion and contraction of dissimilar metals...I dunno. But I know Red Loctite isn't the solution. If you are having problems with your new S&W revolver, contact their CS. It is very good and they have a very fast turn around on warranty issues.

MrBorland · October 31, 2014, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darker Loaf

It sounds like some very experienced revolver owners suggest one of two things:

1) The screw backing out is normal maintenance on revolvers.

This is the second time it seems you feel you've been told this in this thread, but numerous people have indicated to you that this isn't normal. I offered it several times, and one time explicitly.

tallball · October 31, 2014, 04:24 PM

Not normal to me, either. The one that finally came loose on mine was the one that held the ejector rod onto the barrel of a single-action revolver. I correctly or incorrectly put the blame onto myself for not handling the ejector rod carefully when I was a teenager.

Driftwood Johnson · October 31, 2014, 05:54 PM

I too have mentioned that I have dozens of S&W revolvers, I have never had a screw, including the strain screw, back out on any of them. Not in over 40 years of shooting.

I did mention that frame screws tend to back out on the Colt Single Action Army, but that is not what we are talking about here.

Darker Loaf · October 31, 2014, 07:31 PM

Re MrBorland: I meant only to summarize what some others have commented on. Yes, less people think it's just a maintenance issue vs. a warranty issue, but those are the two takes on my revolver.

I am just in partial denial, because I don't want to believe that I've gotten another junker from a reputable company that I have to send back in.

JeffK · October 31, 2014, 07:40 PM

Quote:

...less people think it's just a maintenance issue vs. a warranty issue...

Sounds like about one person thinks it's a maintenance issue vs. a warranty issue.

silvermane_1 · November 1, 2014, 04:27 AM

Re: Darker Loaf, well it may seem that way my friend, but i sure do hope S&W makes that PC 986 right, if not try to find Charter Arms in 9mm, or if you like SAA, one of the Ruger Blackhawk 357/9mm converts, or the uber rare Ruger -Sixs DA in 9mm, but as you can see from my sigline, i'm pretty much a Ruger "fan boy"

, but i never had any problems with the exception of my mini-14, and that is well known problem having to do with aftermarket mags being used with them.

Darker Loaf · November 1, 2014, 02:56 PM

My next firearm purchase will likely be the new LCR 9mm. I really want a DAO only revolver, and the factory triggers on centerfire LCRs are pretty smooth. It'd be a fun gun to learn how to shoot a subbie on. Though, perhaps I should wait as to not catch the kinks of a new release.

Ruger firearms are decent though my 22/45 has some bobbles before reverting it to Mark II VQ internals. Now it runs admirably. I miss my Buckmark--I should have never sold it, but my 22/45 is admittedly a more accurate gun. I shall not talk about my 10-22 here.

I'd like to see what the the 986 would feel like with a trigger job and a DAO trigger. I really hope I can get this gun figured out. I really like it.

silvermane_1 · November 2, 2014, 01:14 AM

Re Darker Loaf, hmm, to be honest i didn't know or must have forgot about, that Ruger made a LCR in 9mm, but a good buy nonetheless, and i still hope the S&W makes the PC 986 right for you.

peggysue · November 2, 2014, 05:25 AM

Get a Taurus

davem · November 3, 2014, 11:02 AM

Darker- I wasn't sure of your situation. I do clean my revolvers after 200-300 round session which consists of the bore and chambers, then I'll strip after maybe 2,000 rounds to clean every part. If you have screws backing out every 200-300 shots something is wrong. All things are manufactured to certain tolerances and normally all is well but sometimes you simply get a slightly too large tap and too small screw and there's a problem. I'd call the factory.

Real Gun · November 3, 2014, 03:55 PM

Could be worse...could be an old style single action that comes with its own screwdriver. I don't think this experience with the 9mm is enough to come on questioning the validity of the entire universe of revolvers. Just call it in.

James K · November 3, 2014, 07:41 PM

IMHO, the main "defect" in an auto pistol is the magazine, and it is one of the (if not THE) major problem areas. Obviously, a revolver eliminates that area of concern (OK, OK, I know about the Dardick, but there are not many of those!), along with feeding and ejection problems. That alone should make a good revolver more reliable than an auto pistol.

That being said, I have had two handguns break in ways that were totally disabling, and not easily repairable. One was an S&W that broke its hammer stud, the other was a Colt in which the entire top of the hammer broke off. I have had problems with auto pistols, but nothing that could not be easily repaired if parts were available. (I don't consider a repair that includes removing a revolver sideplate to be an easy one for the average person.)

Jim

Model12Win · November 3, 2014, 07:54 PM

Get a Ruger security six or GP100.

Only 1 screw and it's to the grips!

silvermane_1 · November 4, 2014, 03:41 AM

Model12win, im thinking that Darker Loaf wants a reliable wheelgun chambered in 9mm, don't think Ruger made a GP100 in 9mm, i know they made the -Six series in 9mm, but those are rare as hen's teeth, and even rarer seen on the used market.

Darker Loaf · November 4, 2014, 07:49 PM

I know that my particular gun isn't enough for me to write off the entire world of revolvers. In part I used that bombass to start the debate, but it DID vex me, and I wanted feedback on something that I wouldn't normally get much of a response on.

And yes, I really wanted a 9mm revolver. Barring that'd I'd want a 10mm/.40 S&W or a .45 ACP revolver. But 9mm is the best for me, because all the pistols I own are in 9mm. It makes things really simple and cheap.

**44 AMP** · November 5, 2014, 01:16 AM

There is little that is as vexing as a gun that doesn't work right.

I would like to point out that sweeping generalities about auto pistols covers a broader range of design variations than generalities about revolvers.

SO when I hear how reliable 9mm autos are, I think of my P.08 Luger, and snicker.

I am in the camp that says screws coming loose OCCASSIONALLY on a revolver is normal. Certain combinations of design and caliber seem more prone to this, but finding some screw slightly loose on a revolver is something that happens. It doesn't happen to every revolver, or to everyone who has revolvers, but it happens once in a while.

Screws that come loose regularly are another matter, and screws that come loose after the use of the proper Loctite mean that the problem is serious, and needs expert attention.

Your 9mm S&W having several screws come loose is a defective gun. It needs to go to S&W, and possibly more than once. Factories are people too, and sometimes need more than one "shot" at identifying and fixing what actually is the problem.

Finding two, three or more screws loose after firing a couple hundred rounds, every time you do it isn't normal, and isn't normal maint for revolvers.

buckhorn_cortez · November 5, 2014, 01:24 PM

Screws can, and do, back out. You can:

1. Complain about it.
2. Send the gun back to the manufacturer.
3. Fix it yourself.

I always choose No.3, because the fix is easy. The last gun I bought that had a loose screw problem right out of the box was a S&W Jerry Miculek Model 625 revolver - and it was the strain screw. The gun continually malfunctioned until I fixed it.

Buy a torque screwdriver and a bottle of PURPLE threadlocker liquid. Purple is made for small, fine thread screws and will keep them in place while still allowing them to be removed if needed.

Buy a copy of the Pocket Ref for finding torque values and you should be good to fix your screw problems.

The use of a torque screwdriver aids in ensuring that the screws are seated to their maximum tightness without over tightening. When putting in several screws on a flat surface (like a side plate) do not tighten a screw to its maximum value and then do the next one.

Think of the screws like lugs nuts on a wheel and sequentially tighten them in increments until they are all seated and relatively tight, and then go over them at the maximum torque value - and then do it one more time as you will find that seating the screws will inevitably leave one or more loose after you think you've got it to the maximum.

Darker Loaf · November 5, 2014, 03:14 PM

That's some good feedback. I appreciate it. I've never heard of purple locktite. I'll have to check it out. That and maybe some new tools.

buckhorn_cortez · November 5, 2014, 03:33 PM

I will add two other suggestions learned from successful and unsuccessful attempts at fixing screw problems.

1. Always clean the screws, and if possible, the screw hole with alcohol prior to reseating the screw. I would assume most people are like me and wipe their guns down, lubricate guns, etc. In the process, oil will seep around the screw's head and work its way down the threads.

If you try and reseat the screw using a thread lock compound, you may find the locking compound will not cure fully because of the oil. I wipe the screws with alcohol and take a small artist's brush and clean out the screw hole with alcohol to make sure there is no oil to interfere with the locking compound.

2. Sometimes the screw threads get worn. You can usually figure this out if the screws are loose in the hole and wobble slightly when you push on them laterally (try to wiggle them) with the heads just proud of the surface. If the screw feels like it is loose, it's probably worn and needs replacement.

You can get replacement screws from Midway, Brownell's, etc. in both blued and stainless.

October 31, 2014, 02:12 PM	#30
Darker Loaf Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2012 Posts: 715	I didn't intend to start the thread to flame revolvers, but more so to express my frustration with what should be a reliable and IS a fun, accurate, and seemingly well-made gun. But even with my horrible track record with firearms, this revolver takes the cake. And since I've been unlucky with firearms in the past and am new to revolvers, I wanted feedback (which I've gotten) on if the screw-backing out was normal or if it had something to do with the rapidity of which I've fired the gun or something else I'm missing. It sounds like some very experienced revolver owners suggest one of two things: 1) The screw backing out is normal maintenance on revolvers. No normal firearm I've ever owned or fired (other than some terribly tight-fitted 1911's) has needed maintenance every 100-200 rounds to go "BANG!" NOTE: The most frustrating screw-backing out is the strain screw (did I get the name right this time?), because that's what's causing the reliability issues. I think the rear sight should stay put now, though, that I've blue locktited it. I've blue locktited the strain screw, too, so maybe I'll be OK now? I'm just worried since the factory red locktited side-plate screw backed out after vigorous firing that my blue locktited screws will back out easily after a 200-300 round session. 2) S&W should service/warranty my gun. The redneck/handyman in me just sees this a maintenance issue, because how could a factory screw up screws? By having a too-large a diameter screw-hole or too-small a diameter screw? Last edited by Darker Loaf; October 31, 2014 at 02:17 PM.

November 1, 2014, 04:27 AM	#37
silvermane_1 Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2011 Location: Burien,WA Posts: 897	Re: Darker Loaf, well it may seem that way my friend, but i sure do hope S&W makes that PC 986 right, if not try to find Charter Arms in 9mm, or if you like SAA, one of the Ruger Blackhawk 357/9mm converts, or the uber rare Ruger -Sixs DA in 9mm, but as you can see from my sigline, i'm pretty much a Ruger "fan boy" , but i never had any problems with the exception of my mini-14, and that is well known problem having to do with aftermarket mags being used with them. __________________ Rugers:SR1911 CMD,MK 3 .22lr 6",Sec. Six '76 liberty .357 4",SRH .480 Ruger 7.5",Mini-14 188 5.56/.233 18.5", Marlins: 795 .22lr 16.5",30aw 30-30 20",Mossberg:Mav. 88 Tact. 12 ga, 18.5",ATR 100 .270 Win. 22",S&W:SW9VE 9mm 4",Springfield:XD .357sig 4", AKs:CAI PSL-54C, WASR 10/63, WW74,SLR-106c

November 2, 2014, 01:14 AM	#39
silvermane_1 Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2011 Location: Burien,WA Posts: 897	Re Darker Loaf, hmm, to be honest i didn't know or must have forgot about, that Ruger made a LCR in 9mm, but a good buy nonetheless, and i still hope the S&W makes the PC 986 right for you. __________________ Rugers:SR1911 CMD,MK 3 .22lr 6",Sec. Six '76 liberty .357 4",SRH .480 Ruger 7.5",Mini-14 188 5.56/.233 18.5", Marlins: 795 .22lr 16.5",30aw 30-30 20",Mossberg:Mav. 88 Tact. 12 ga, 18.5",ATR 100 .270 Win. 22",S&W:SW9VE 9mm 4",Springfield:XD .357sig 4", AKs:CAI PSL-54C, WASR 10/63, WW74,SLR-106c Last edited by silvermane_1; November 2, 2014 at 01:35 AM.

November 4, 2014, 03:41 AM	#45
silvermane_1 Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2011 Location: Burien,WA Posts: 897	Model12win, im thinking that Darker Loaf wants a reliable wheelgun chambered in 9mm, don't think Ruger made a GP100 in 9mm, i know they made the -Six series in 9mm, but those are rare as hen's teeth, and even rarer seen on the used market. __________________ Rugers:SR1911 CMD,MK 3 .22lr 6",Sec. Six '76 liberty .357 4",SRH .480 Ruger 7.5",Mini-14 188 5.56/.233 18.5", Marlins: 795 .22lr 16.5",30aw 30-30 20",Mossberg:Mav. 88 Tact. 12 ga, 18.5",ATR 100 .270 Win. 22",S&W:SW9VE 9mm 4",Springfield:XD .357sig 4", AKs:CAI PSL-54C, WASR 10/63, WW74,SLR-106c

November 5, 2014, 01:16 AM	#47
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,791	There is little that is as vexing as a gun that doesn't work right. I would like to point out that sweeping generalities about auto pistols covers a broader range of design variations than generalities about revolvers. SO when I hear how reliable 9mm autos are, I think of my P.08 Luger, and snicker. I am in the camp that says screws coming loose OCCASSIONALLY on a revolver is normal. Certain combinations of design and caliber seem more prone to this, but finding some screw slightly loose on a revolver is something that happens. It doesn't happen to every revolver, or to everyone who has revolvers, but it happens once in a while. Screws that come loose regularly are another matter, and screws that come loose after the use of the proper Loctite mean that the problem is serious, and needs expert attention. Your 9mm S&W having several screws come loose is a defective gun. It needs to go to S&W, and possibly more than once. Factories are people too, and sometimes need more than one "shot" at identifying and fixing what actually is the problem. Finding two, three or more screws loose after firing a couple hundred rounds, every time you do it isn't normal, and isn't normal maint for revolvers. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

October 31, 2014, 11:02 AM	#26
tallball Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2014 Posts: 2,444	I am sorry if I seemed rude in my previous post. I was in a hurry. I have owned somewhere between 15 and 20 revolvers in my life, probably closer to 20. One gave me problems the first time I took it shooting, so I cleaned it thoroughly and went out to the range again. It acted up the second time, so I got rid of it. The rest have all been completely reliable. You were sold a defective revolver. Smith and Wesson needs to honor their warranty. I've owned about a dozen semi-autos. Coincidentally, one gave me problems so I got rid of it. The rest have been fine. In my mind the only real difference is that even the best semi-autos will malfunction if it happens to encounter a defective round of ammunition, and that is extremely rare. Other than that, IMHO a good modern firearm will be reliable. You just got unlucky and got a bad one.

October 31, 2014, 11:16 AM	#27
Bowdog Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2010 Location: East Tennessee Posts: 112	I shoot about 3000 rounds a season. Most in SAA .45 Colt, Ruger Vaquero and Taylor & Co.(Uberti). Light loads and full house. Screws come loose, it is a fact of life.

October 31, 2014, 11:18 AM	#28
davem Junior member Join Date: October 4, 2004 Posts: 458	Dear Darker: just started reading thread.... First, IMHO a semi-auto has less parts and is more reliable than a revolver. The troubles begin with shooters that don't shoot a semi-auto correctly and get stove pipe jams, etc. from limp wrist holds, etc. On the revolvers, you need a top quality and Smith and Wesson used to be tops, they made they own screws in the factory, whole deal. I don't like the looks of the new Smith & Wessons and I don't think the guns are as good as what they made years ago. The old guns may be blued steel but they were works of art. I have all the various sized frames and have never had any trouble with the screws loosening up. On the other hand you are doing a lot of shooting. I am a neat freak, always stripping down the revolvers and cleaning them (I have a lot of semi-autos as well). IAE it seems to me you ought to be able to run 1,000 min through a handgun without troubles. I ran 2,0000 through a Browning HP before I decided to do more than routine cleaning and strip it down and do it up right. If the screws are loosening up on every session then maybe there was some type of manufacturers flaw. See if you can get new screws, if they are backing out maybe lightly tap and distort the threads to make them fit tighter and see if that works (provided you have the back up set of screws/bolts). I'm sure years ago if you called the factory and explained the situation they would have taken the gun back and made it right but today- probably not. When it comes to firearms, I'll pay more to get more. Quality is everything. Buy your girlfriend drug store candy and eat at McDonalds but don't ever skimp on firearms.

October 31, 2014, 02:01 PM	#29
Darker Loaf Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2012 Posts: 715	RE silvermane_1: Yeah, you've noticed a trend, too, huh? It's so sad. I buy quality to avoid QC issues. Maybe I should just stick to Keltec and Taurus or something, and if I get a bad one, just throw it in a pond and by a new one. I've heard nothing but good things about Smith's customer service. I'm just not looking forward to sending yet another gun back in. I'm crossing my fingers that they won't be like Arsenal or EAA and tell me that they've "fixed" my gun, when really they just put the same parts back in the same places without doing anything--or frankly even listening to me when I tell them what I've seen go wrong.

October 31, 2014, 04:24 PM	#33
tallball Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2014 Posts: 2,444	Not normal to me, either. The one that finally came loose on mine was the one that held the ejector rod onto the barrel of a single-action revolver. I correctly or incorrectly put the blame onto myself for not handling the ejector rod carefully when I was a teenager.

October 31, 2014, 05:54 PM	#34
Driftwood Johnson Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2014 Location: Land of the Pilgrims Posts: 2,033	I too have mentioned that I have dozens of S&W revolvers, I have never had a screw, including the strain screw, back out on any of them. Not in over 40 years of shooting. I did mention that frame screws tend to back out on the Colt Single Action Army, but that is not what we are talking about here.

October 31, 2014, 07:31 PM	#35
Darker Loaf Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2012 Posts: 715	Re MrBorland: I meant only to summarize what some others have commented on. Yes, less people think it's just a maintenance issue vs. a warranty issue, but those are the two takes on my revolver. I am just in partial denial, because I don't want to believe that I've gotten another junker from a reputable company that I have to send back in.

November 1, 2014, 02:56 PM	#38
Darker Loaf Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2012 Posts: 715	My next firearm purchase will likely be the new LCR 9mm. I really want a DAO only revolver, and the factory triggers on centerfire LCRs are pretty smooth. It'd be a fun gun to learn how to shoot a subbie on. Though, perhaps I should wait as to not catch the kinks of a new release. Ruger firearms are decent though my 22/45 has some bobbles before reverting it to Mark II VQ internals. Now it runs admirably. I miss my Buckmark--I should have never sold it, but my 22/45 is admittedly a more accurate gun. I shall not talk about my 10-22 here. I'd like to see what the the 986 would feel like with a trigger job and a DAO trigger. I really hope I can get this gun figured out. I really like it.

November 2, 2014, 05:25 AM	#40
peggysue Junior member Join Date: May 20, 2014 Posts: 1,835	Get a Taurus

November 3, 2014, 11:02 AM	#41
davem Junior member Join Date: October 4, 2004 Posts: 458	Darker- I wasn't sure of your situation. I do clean my revolvers after 200-300 round session which consists of the bore and chambers, then I'll strip after maybe 2,000 rounds to clean every part. If you have screws backing out every 200-300 shots something is wrong. All things are manufactured to certain tolerances and normally all is well but sometimes you simply get a slightly too large tap and too small screw and there's a problem. I'd call the factory.

November 3, 2014, 03:55 PM	#42
Real Gun Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2004 Location: SC Posts: 2,743	Could be worse...could be an old style single action that comes with its own screwdriver. I don't think this experience with the 9mm is enough to come on questioning the validity of the entire universe of revolvers. Just call it in.

November 3, 2014, 07:41 PM	#43
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	IMHO, the main "defect" in an auto pistol is the magazine, and it is one of the (if not THE) major problem areas. Obviously, a revolver eliminates that area of concern (OK, OK, I know about the Dardick, but there are not many of those!), along with feeding and ejection problems. That alone should make a good revolver more reliable than an auto pistol. That being said, I have had two handguns break in ways that were totally disabling, and not easily repairable. One was an S&W that broke its hammer stud, the other was a Colt in which the entire top of the hammer broke off. I have had problems with auto pistols, but nothing that could not be easily repaired if parts were available. (I don't consider a repair that includes removing a revolver sideplate to be an easy one for the average person.) Jim

November 3, 2014, 07:54 PM	#44
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	Get a Ruger security six or GP100. Only 1 screw and it's to the grips!

November 4, 2014, 07:49 PM	#46
Darker Loaf Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2012 Posts: 715	I know that my particular gun isn't enough for me to write off the entire world of revolvers. In part I used that bombass to start the debate, but it DID vex me, and I wanted feedback on something that I wouldn't normally get much of a response on. And yes, I really wanted a 9mm revolver. Barring that'd I'd want a 10mm/.40 S&W or a .45 ACP revolver. But 9mm is the best for me, because all the pistols I own are in 9mm. It makes things really simple and cheap.

November 5, 2014, 01:24 PM	#48
buckhorn_cortez Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2010 Posts: 857	Screws can, and do, back out. You can: 1. Complain about it. 2. Send the gun back to the manufacturer. 3. Fix it yourself. I always choose No.3, because the fix is easy. The last gun I bought that had a loose screw problem right out of the box was a S&W Jerry Miculek Model 625 revolver - and it was the strain screw. The gun continually malfunctioned until I fixed it. Buy a torque screwdriver and a bottle of PURPLE threadlocker liquid. Purple is made for small, fine thread screws and will keep them in place while still allowing them to be removed if needed. Buy a copy of the Pocket Ref for finding torque values and you should be good to fix your screw problems. The use of a torque screwdriver aids in ensuring that the screws are seated to their maximum tightness without over tightening. When putting in several screws on a flat surface (like a side plate) do not tighten a screw to its maximum value and then do the next one. Think of the screws like lugs nuts on a wheel and sequentially tighten them in increments until they are all seated and relatively tight, and then go over them at the maximum torque value - and then do it one more time as you will find that seating the screws will inevitably leave one or more loose after you think you've got it to the maximum. Last edited by buckhorn_cortez; November 5, 2014 at 01:34 PM.

November 5, 2014, 03:14 PM	#49
Darker Loaf Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2012 Posts: 715	That's some good feedback. I appreciate it. I've never heard of purple locktite. I'll have to check it out. That and maybe some new tools.

November 5, 2014, 03:33 PM	#50
buckhorn_cortez Senior Member Join Date: July 30, 2010 Posts: 857	I will add two other suggestions learned from successful and unsuccessful attempts at fixing screw problems. 1. Always clean the screws, and if possible, the screw hole with alcohol prior to reseating the screw. I would assume most people are like me and wipe their guns down, lubricate guns, etc. In the process, oil will seep around the screw's head and work its way down the threads. If you try and reseat the screw using a thread lock compound, you may find the locking compound will not cure fully because of the oil. I wipe the screws with alcohol and take a small artist's brush and clean out the screw hole with alcohol to make sure there is no oil to interfere with the locking compound. 2. Sometimes the screw threads get worn. You can usually figure this out if the screws are loose in the hole and wobble slightly when you push on them laterally (try to wiggle them) with the heads just proud of the surface. If the screw feels like it is loose, it's probably worn and needs replacement. You can get replacement screws from Midway, Brownell's, etc. in both blued and stainless.

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