May 24, 2002, 04:09 PM | #1 |
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.38 Loaded into .357 Case
In loading for my .357 mag I believe I goofed. I looked at the page on right side instead of the page on the left and mistook the .38 loading data for a .357 load. The .357 cases are loaded with Unique, 148 gr lead WC. The loads begin at 3.5 grs, the beginning load for a .38, and go up to 4.4 gr by .1 gr increment. The 4.4 gr load is still .1 gr below the beginning load for the .357 with Unique.
Question: I remember reading some where that you should not shoot this type of a load. That is don't put a .38 load into a .357 case. Definitely don't load a .38 with a .357 powder charge. Your thoughts. Should I just pop the bullets from the case and start over or is this possibily a "safe" load and don't do that again. Be more careful the next time. I am just glad that I rechecked after I loaded them and before they were fired. |
May 24, 2002, 04:14 PM | #2 |
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Let me make sure I understand: You used 38 special loads in a 357 case? As long as the loads are within specs for 38 (and therefore by definition not hotter than 357), you're probably OK.
However, if it were me, I'd pull them all and start over, since that's a pretty serious mistake. |
May 24, 2002, 04:23 PM | #3 |
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These are okay loads - - -
- - A little light for the larger capacity of the .357 case, perhaps, and you may not get the finest accuracy from them.
Every so often the topic of "Detonation" loads comes up again. This refers to a load of too little powder in a case creating some black magic overpressure situation causing the powder to explode raather than burn properly. The last couple of articles I read on the topic said they could NOT duplicate any hazardous condition nor cause any detonation. Consensus seems to be that 2.7 gr. Bullseye is an okay load in .38 Spl, and 3.5 in .45 ACP, BUT 5.4 in .38 and 7.0 in .45 is not. In other words, they think that the rare-as-hens'-teeth occurrence is really caused by double-charging a case. I would personally shoot the loads in question in MY .357 revolver for plinking, etc., but not be too disappointed if I didn't get gilt-edge accuracy. Best of Luck - - - Johnny Guest |
May 24, 2002, 05:41 PM | #4 |
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I believe I'd be more concerned with "sticking" one in the barrel than detonation myself. I've tried loads that light myself and did manage to stick one in the barrel of my Marlin Cowbou II lever gun. The shorter barrel revolvers didn't have any problems.
One thing's for certain though. Those starting loads are going to leave a lot of soot in the chambers because there won't be enough pressure built up to seal the case mouth against the sides of the chamber. I think I'd do like Bacchus suggests and invest in an inertia puller, pull the bullets and chalk it up to experience. |
May 27, 2002, 04:35 PM | #5 |
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Thanks to all for responding. I have decided to pull the bullets and reload using the suggested load for the .375 mag. This seems the safestest way to go. Again thanks to all. It is appreciated.
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May 27, 2002, 06:25 PM | #6 |
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Interesting.....just looked in an old (50s) Lyman manual and under pet loads found Unique spread from 3.0 to 8 gr for 25yd and 50yd target.
Pull em and feel better tho. Sam |
May 27, 2002, 07:56 PM | #7 |
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Yah. I'm looking at a 1969 Lyman Reloading Manual and it starts at 4.0 grs Unique for a 150 gr cast bullet (690 fps, 5" S&W Mdl 27) ... goes to 8.0 grs (1280 fps).
I've shot some 4.0 gr Unique loads with 150 gr cast SWC bullets from a 20 year old Ruger Blackhawk and they were quite accurate at 30 steps. |
May 31, 2002, 04:37 AM | #8 |
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i load 38 spcl for my father in 357 magnum cases for cowboy action shooting. never had a problem.
Scott |
May 31, 2002, 07:29 AM | #9 |
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I usually start 'spl' loads in .357 brass at low +P levels. The only problems I've had are with hard cast plain base SWC's not sealing the barrel under these light loads (3.2gr bullseye). HBWC's seem to seal very nicely at that level and give me around 700fps
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June 2, 2002, 01:06 PM | #10 |
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I have dammaged two 38 specials in load work ups:
1) Aluminum framed Colt Agent bent frame slightly at 240% of max Blue Dot load for 110 gr JHP 2) Rohn revolver split cylinder at 200% of +P LONGSHOT max loads for 158 gr. I did in a couple other 38 specials, one at 400% of LONGSHOT max load, but that was not in an incremental work up. The other was with AA#5 when a bullet got pinched in 9mm OAL in a 38 sp case. The bottom line here is that of the destructive testing I have done in 32 different calibers, the 38 specials have the largest safety margin. [CZ52s have the lowsest, loosing one at 101% and one at 117%] |
June 2, 2002, 01:17 PM | #11 |
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You are safe.
Using a 38special load inside of a 357mag case is perfectly safe, especially if you are using Unique. Unique and one other powder have the property that they do not detonate, even on light loads.
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June 2, 2002, 04:54 PM | #12 |
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I have to agree with Johnny on the detonation thing. I have read a lot about it and the consensus seems to be that if it does occur it is more likely to happen with light charges of a slow burning powder and again more likely in a rifle than a pistol.
I am thinking like Johhny again that it's more likely an overcharge (double charge) than a detonation. RAE does raise a serious concern about a bullet sticking in the barrel and then firing another round behind it...................I really think that this load is a mite to heavy for that though. If I had done that I would just fire them, and not worry about it. |
June 6, 2002, 09:48 AM | #13 |
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I have asked Hodgdon if detonation is a problem with reduced loads of H110 in 44 mag and 357 mag. I have been told the only risk there is a stuck bullet.
In the February 2001 "Handloader" magazine, John Haviland's article on reduced loads quotes Ron Rieber of Hodgdon as saying that there is a problem with reduced loads in cartridges with large powder capacities compared to their bore. The powder partially ignites sending the bullet into the bore and then lodging and stopping. The charge then fully ignites causing a pressure spike. He has been unable to reproduce this phenomena in the lab with a new barrel, however, in a rough throated .243 with a slow burning powder and reduced charge can make a pressure spike that will lock the bolt shut. IMR4895 is too fast a powder to get detonation. I have REAL problems with: obstructed bore wrong powder wrong powder charge wrong wieght bullet wieght magnum primers pinched bullet wrong cartridge But surpisingly, I have not had any problems with wrong bullet diameter [if not pinched] or detonation. |
June 6, 2002, 07:07 PM | #14 |
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"But surpisingly, I have not had any problems with wrong bullet diameter"
I know this does not make sense and I damn sure would not want to try it or see anyone else try it but I recall reading a long time ago that some expirements were done with oversize bullets in an otherwise safe load. If I recall correctly the bulet diameter was a minor factor in pressure when compared to powder charge etc. DON"T TRY IT This was just recalling something I read years ago in one of the gun rags. |
June 8, 2002, 11:59 AM | #15 |
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Actually, I don' t see what the deal is. As someone mentioned, as long as the loads are within specs, you should be okay. Remember cowboy action shooters load their 357s to 38special velocities all the time (750-900fps). Do some research and you may very well find that you're okay where you are.
I really don't believe that .1 of a grain will creat a life and death situation. Most of the load data is +/- 10 to 15% anyway to keep the lawyers happy. But if it makes you fell better, pull them down. Don't ever shoot anything you are not comfortable with.
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June 8, 2002, 03:57 PM | #16 |
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In the 60's Ackley wrote two books that describe shooting 8mm bullets in a 30-06. There was no increase in pressure at all. That was difficult to imagine until I thought of it in the time domain. If the peak pressure does not coincide with the increase in pressure needed to swage the bullet down, then the absolute peak pressure does not change.
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June 8, 2002, 07:44 PM | #17 |
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Clark my friend that may have been when and where I read it.............................I hate to admit it but I am old enough to have been reloading and such since 63! :O
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