My 870 and rifled slugs - is this normal???

Charles Johnson · April 9, 2001, 03:19 PM

I took my 870 to the rifle range Saturday and shot slugs at the 100yd line. I aimed at the very top of the frame expecting several inches of drop. Much to my surprise, I blew a hole right through the top of the frame! I thought slugs weren't supposed to be accurate at 100 yards. My 870 Express has a 28" smooth bore barrel and one bead sight. I was shooting 2 3/4" Federal 1oz hollowpoints. Just to see if this was a fluke, I aimed at a 5" diameter black target. The bead completely covered the target at this distance. I hit it 1" from dead center! I couldn't believe it. Just for good measure, I tried a couple more with near identical results. The holes were round - there was no evidence of tumbling. Are these shotguns zeroed at 100 yds or something? Previously I had tried it at 30 yards and it hit about 5" high. In contrast, my Beretta AL391 was dead on at 30 yards. I didn't try the Beretta at 100 yds.

Needless to say I was very impressed (as was another slug shooter who witnessed this). It sure was fun shooting this well at such a distance without a scope. Considering this, what would be a good idea for max distance at which to shoot a hog?

Dave McC · April 9, 2001, 03:51 PM

Congrats, sounds like you've lucked into a good combination.

The bad news is, it's not a 100 yard hog gun. But then, nobody else has one either.

Tha target is static,unmoving,and unlikely to tear you or a dog up with a bad hit.Nor will that target suffer for hours if the slug's a little off.

A more realistic way to gauge YOUR effective range is to see if you can place all your slugs on a pie plate(8-9") using the same positions you use in the field. Whatever range you start missing at is too far. I'd go for 10 yards less than that.

More to the point, if all hunters learned to hunt well enough that maximum range became more a theoretical issue than a real world one, we'd all be better off.

Hope this helps...

Kernel · April 9, 2001, 04:46 PM

A 28" bird barrel with an open bead sight and it shoots to point of aim at 100yds? That's luck, go spend $100 on lottery tickets before it wears off! A couple of questions: 1.) What choke are you using, is it fixed or a RemChoke? 2.) What are your groups like. From a bench if you can keep 5 shots inside 3" center-to-center you got yourself a sniper-shotgun, 5" is more typical. 3.) What's the exact brand and type of ammo you're shooting? Remember (or better yet write down) the specifics so you can buy the same exact kind next time. -- Kernel

Al Thompson · April 9, 2001, 05:43 PM

Just to put a different perspective on Dave's view, the problem with single beads as hunting sights is that the rear sight (your eye) is subject to moving while shooting at a critter.

If you have a vent rib, the clip on sights work just fine.

Otherwise limit your shots to 25 m or so..

Giz

Dave R · April 9, 2001, 06:25 PM

Charles, you are one lucky guy. I have never shot slugs through mine before. I just may have to try. Then I'll know how lucky you really are.

uglygun · April 9, 2001, 07:10 PM

That's pretty darned lucky, sounds like you've just got all the variables coming together just right on your shotgun along with the way you shoot it.

I recently got a Police 870 with an improved cylinder choke and when I took it out to the range I was happy enough that it put the slugs relatively within the same vertical plane of where I was aiming.

At 100 yards I did what you did by aiming for the top of the target stand and hoping that I'd be able to atleast hit paper at that range. I found that aiming about 20 inches above the center of the target actually put me about 6 inches high of the center of the target, I was expecting the rifled slug to show more drop but at 100 yards the drop was only about 15 inches below my point of aim.

My 870 isn't putting them into the point of aim like yours is doing but I was pleasantly surprised that the first rounds I was shooting through the gun were all hitting relatively close to my point of aim at 100 yards.

I do still want to get a rifled slug barrel so that I can scope it and put a whole bunch of saboted slugs into the targets with relatively decent accuracy.

Congrats on lucking out with your shotgun. I hope the luck keeps going for you. You aught to try out the other slugs from other manufacturers to see if it is just one brand of ammo that does this for you or if it's pretty much the entire lot of rifled slug loads out there.

Oh, and can you hear the rifled slug "buzz" as it goes down range? When I was out shooting my 12 gauge and using Remington rifled slugs I could actually hear the things as the "buzzed" down range to the target, my friend thought I was losing my head but every time I fired at the 100 yard paper I could hear that slug whistling like a bumble bee.

Bowser · April 9, 2001, 09:29 PM

What is your hold over/under at closer distances, 10 yards, 25, and 50?

Bowser.

Charles Johnson · April 10, 2001, 08:51 AM

Kernel: 1) It was a RemChoke Mod Choke. 2) I didn't try grouping as I was trying to save my shoulder for a long skeet session. I will group it this weekend and let you know. 3) I checked the ammo last night - Federal 2 3/4 Maximum 1oz hollow point rifled slugs. Funny thing is I bought these because WalMart didn't have Brenekkes (sp?) and my gun shop wasn't open yet. I'll try some different brands this weekend.

Next time I will shoot at 50 yards also. At 25-30 yards, it was hitting about 5" high, so theoretically it should be about 10" high at 50yds. I'll test this theory.

I thought this was better accuracy then I should have gotten, and all of y'all agree. It may be more than luck though. I bought this gun at my local gunshop for $320 even though I could have gotten an 870 for $250 at WalMart. I bought it at the gunshop because WalMart has irked me with their stupid rules (no ammo after 9pm, can't buy ammo at the same time as the gun, won't remove the trigger lock when you look at a gun). And of course I like to give my business to my friends at the shop. I'll have to keep principles in mind in the future when I purchase guns.

ronin308 · April 10, 2001, 10:41 AM

Don't ask why because it just might stop happening! lol Seriously I think that you may have hit on some ideal combination! From the things that I've experienced or seen, being able to have that accuracy with a bead sight is uncanny...

Dave McC · April 10, 2001, 12:10 PM

Mr. Johnson, kudos to you for supporting your local gunshop.More of US should do the same.

A coupla things....

I've used the Fed slugs on some herd control does with good effect. I like Brennekes, but doubt that blood trails would have been shorter with them.

Feel free to try other slugs, you should,IMO. I'd be ready to stock up on those Federals, if grouping supports what you've observed.

With a smoothbore, my guess is you should concentrate on the Forster style slug and Brennekes. Sabots occasionally work well in smoothbores, but mostly they're better in full rifled bbls.

Also consider the KO Brenneke. Last season's harvest shows they work well also. There's some old threads that may help you out, if the archives survived the recent problems here.

If not, ask away. Lots of experience shows up here, that's why it's the best site on the Net.

Kernel · April 10, 2001, 11:55 PM

The above average accuracy might be due to your modified choke, that's why I asked I've seen this before. Conventional wisdom says to use cylinder bore or improved with rifled slugs. A tighter choke would tend to squeeze the slug more, swedging it down to fit the barrel better. Tighter fit could lead to better accuracy. The risks is the slugs may stretch the choke tube after a while. If you see accuracy drop off a this may be the cause.

If you have the equipment mic your choke tube now, then check it after 5 or 6 boxes of slugs to see if it's grown larger. If it does buy another choke tube they're only $14. Before anything though check with Remington to see if they say it's okay to use a modified tube with slugs in your specific barrel (not all barrels are alike), there may be safety reasons not to. I'm pretty sure my 870's manual said to use cylinder bore or improved chokes only with slugs. -- Kernel

Charles Johnson · April 12, 2001, 01:03 PM

I have an update. I tried the same slugs (Federal 2 3/4"), but I forgot to change from the ic choke to mod. The ic choke gave immeasurable groups because only 2 of 5 hit the paper! Unfortunately, I didn't have any more of the Fed slugs so when I realized I hadn't swapped chokes, I only had Brenneke 2 3/4" High Velocity slugs left. These yielded a 6" group centered around the bullseye at 100 yds. Actually, the first round was right on the 10 ring. I will post a pic when I get home.

At 25 yards, the Brenneke was just a little high over point of aim. I'll measure and update later. I then ran out of Brenekkes before shooting at 50 yds, so I had to switch to Federal 3" Magnum High Shock slugs. The shot higher at 50. I'll post the measurement later as well. Sorry for the incomplete data - I was in a hurry last night, plus I wanted to sight in my brother's Marlin 444P.

trjake · April 12, 2001, 03:14 PM

I have one 870 w/ 18" barrel, and with a Winchester slug I had to aim at the bottom right of the target to get hits in the center at 100 yds. Go figure. And no, I don't use that particular slug anymore.

Dead · April 14, 2001, 06:55 PM

I have fired a Mossberg 9200, at 50 yards. Fired 50 rounds Standing, point shooting had one ragged hole in the middle of the paper.

That thing lined up perfectly for me.

Jeff Thomas · April 15, 2001, 02:57 PM

When I took a weekend Gunsite tactical shotgun class in Phoenix, we spent a little time sighting in (ghost rings) with slugs ... at 50 and 100 yards, as I recall. Certainly not rifle performance, and we didn't measure groups, but ... none of us would have felt too undergunned if we had to engage enemy targets at that range with slugs.

Mine was an 870, 18" cylinder bore with ghost ring sights, using the Federal rifled slugs. I'd estimate they were 6" groups, give or take ... I was impressed. Makes a damn big hole as well, obviously.

I suppose this is another reason shotguns have such a great reputation for versatility.

Regards from AZ

April 9, 2001, 05:43 PM	#4
Al Thompson Staff Alumnus Join Date: May 2, 1999 Location: South Carolina Posts: 3,611	Just to put a different perspective on Dave's view, the problem with single beads as hunting sights is that the rear sight (your eye) is subject to moving while shooting at a critter. If you have a vent rib, the clip on sights work just fine. Otherwise limit your shots to 25 m or so.. Giz __________________ http://www.scfirearms.org/

April 14, 2001, 06:55 PM	#14
Dead Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2000 Location: AoW Land, USA Posts: 1,968	I have fired a Mossberg 9200, at 50 yards. Fired 50 rounds Standing, point shooting had one ragged hole in the middle of the paper. That thing lined up perfectly for me. __________________ Dead [Black Ops] www.therallypoint.org

April 9, 2001, 03:19 PM	#1
Charles Johnson Member Join Date: January 16, 2001 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 73	I took my 870 to the rifle range Saturday and shot slugs at the 100yd line. I aimed at the very top of the frame expecting several inches of drop. Much to my surprise, I blew a hole right through the top of the frame! I thought slugs weren't supposed to be accurate at 100 yards. My 870 Express has a 28" smooth bore barrel and one bead sight. I was shooting 2 3/4" Federal 1oz hollowpoints. Just to see if this was a fluke, I aimed at a 5" diameter black target. The bead completely covered the target at this distance. I hit it 1" from dead center! I couldn't believe it. Just for good measure, I tried a couple more with near identical results. The holes were round - there was no evidence of tumbling. Are these shotguns zeroed at 100 yds or something? Previously I had tried it at 30 yards and it hit about 5" high. In contrast, my Beretta AL391 was dead on at 30 yards. I didn't try the Beretta at 100 yds. Needless to say I was very impressed (as was another slug shooter who witnessed this). It sure was fun shooting this well at such a distance without a scope. Considering this, what would be a good idea for max distance at which to shoot a hog?

April 9, 2001, 03:51 PM	#2
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Congrats, sounds like you've lucked into a good combination. The bad news is, it's not a 100 yard hog gun. But then, nobody else has one either. Tha target is static,unmoving,and unlikely to tear you or a dog up with a bad hit.Nor will that target suffer for hours if the slug's a little off. A more realistic way to gauge YOUR effective range is to see if you can place all your slugs on a pie plate(8-9") using the same positions you use in the field. Whatever range you start missing at is too far. I'd go for 10 yards less than that. More to the point, if all hunters learned to hunt well enough that maximum range became more a theoretical issue than a real world one, we'd all be better off. Hope this helps...

April 9, 2001, 04:46 PM	#3
Kernel Senior Member Join Date: November 21, 1999 Location: Madison, WI.... "78 Square Miles Surrounded by Reality" Posts: 923	A 28" bird barrel with an open bead sight and it shoots to point of aim at 100yds? That's luck, go spend $100 on lottery tickets before it wears off! A couple of questions: 1.) What choke are you using, is it fixed or a RemChoke? 2.) What are your groups like. From a bench if you can keep 5 shots inside 3" center-to-center you got yourself a sniper-shotgun, 5" is more typical. 3.) What's the exact brand and type of ammo you're shooting? Remember (or better yet write down) the specifics so you can buy the same exact kind next time. -- Kernel

April 9, 2001, 06:25 PM	#5
Dave R Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2000 Location: Idaho Posts: 6,073	Charles, you are one lucky guy. I have never shot slugs through mine before. I just may have to try. Then I'll know how lucky you really are.

April 9, 2001, 07:10 PM	#6
uglygun Senior Member Join Date: March 27, 2001 Location: Cowpie Ca Posts: 552	That's pretty darned lucky, sounds like you've just got all the variables coming together just right on your shotgun along with the way you shoot it. I recently got a Police 870 with an improved cylinder choke and when I took it out to the range I was happy enough that it put the slugs relatively within the same vertical plane of where I was aiming. At 100 yards I did what you did by aiming for the top of the target stand and hoping that I'd be able to atleast hit paper at that range. I found that aiming about 20 inches above the center of the target actually put me about 6 inches high of the center of the target, I was expecting the rifled slug to show more drop but at 100 yards the drop was only about 15 inches below my point of aim. My 870 isn't putting them into the point of aim like yours is doing but I was pleasantly surprised that the first rounds I was shooting through the gun were all hitting relatively close to my point of aim at 100 yards. I do still want to get a rifled slug barrel so that I can scope it and put a whole bunch of saboted slugs into the targets with relatively decent accuracy. Congrats on lucking out with your shotgun. I hope the luck keeps going for you. You aught to try out the other slugs from other manufacturers to see if it is just one brand of ammo that does this for you or if it's pretty much the entire lot of rifled slug loads out there. Oh, and can you hear the rifled slug "buzz" as it goes down range? When I was out shooting my 12 gauge and using Remington rifled slugs I could actually hear the things as the "buzzed" down range to the target, my friend thought I was losing my head but every time I fired at the 100 yard paper I could hear that slug whistling like a bumble bee.

April 9, 2001, 09:29 PM	#7
Bowser Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2001 Posts: 257	What is your hold over/under at closer distances, 10 yards, 25, and 50? Bowser.

April 10, 2001, 08:51 AM	#8
Charles Johnson Member Join Date: January 16, 2001 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 73	Kernel: 1) It was a RemChoke Mod Choke. 2) I didn't try grouping as I was trying to save my shoulder for a long skeet session. I will group it this weekend and let you know. 3) I checked the ammo last night - Federal 2 3/4 Maximum 1oz hollow point rifled slugs. Funny thing is I bought these because WalMart didn't have Brenekkes (sp?) and my gun shop wasn't open yet. I'll try some different brands this weekend. Next time I will shoot at 50 yards also. At 25-30 yards, it was hitting about 5" high, so theoretically it should be about 10" high at 50yds. I'll test this theory. I thought this was better accuracy then I should have gotten, and all of y'all agree. It may be more than luck though. I bought this gun at my local gunshop for $320 even though I could have gotten an 870 for $250 at WalMart. I bought it at the gunshop because WalMart has irked me with their stupid rules (no ammo after 9pm, can't buy ammo at the same time as the gun, won't remove the trigger lock when you look at a gun). And of course I like to give my business to my friends at the shop. I'll have to keep principles in mind in the future when I purchase guns.

April 10, 2001, 10:41 AM	#9
ronin308 Senior Member Join Date: April 9, 2001 Posts: 1,977	Don't ask why because it just might stop happening! lol Seriously I think that you may have hit on some ideal combination! From the things that I've experienced or seen, being able to have that accuracy with a bead sight is uncanny...

April 10, 2001, 12:10 PM	#10
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Mr. Johnson, kudos to you for supporting your local gunshop.More of US should do the same. A coupla things.... I've used the Fed slugs on some herd control does with good effect. I like Brennekes, but doubt that blood trails would have been shorter with them. Feel free to try other slugs, you should,IMO. I'd be ready to stock up on those Federals, if grouping supports what you've observed. With a smoothbore, my guess is you should concentrate on the Forster style slug and Brennekes. Sabots occasionally work well in smoothbores, but mostly they're better in full rifled bbls. Also consider the KO Brenneke. Last season's harvest shows they work well also. There's some old threads that may help you out, if the archives survived the recent problems here. If not, ask away. Lots of experience shows up here, that's why it's the best site on the Net.

April 10, 2001, 11:55 PM	#11
Kernel Senior Member Join Date: November 21, 1999 Location: Madison, WI.... "78 Square Miles Surrounded by Reality" Posts: 923	The above average accuracy might be due to your modified choke, that's why I asked I've seen this before. Conventional wisdom says to use cylinder bore or improved with rifled slugs. A tighter choke would tend to squeeze the slug more, swedging it down to fit the barrel better. Tighter fit could lead to better accuracy. The risks is the slugs may stretch the choke tube after a while. If you see accuracy drop off a this may be the cause. If you have the equipment mic your choke tube now, then check it after 5 or 6 boxes of slugs to see if it's grown larger. If it does buy another choke tube they're only $14. Before anything though check with Remington to see if they say it's okay to use a modified tube with slugs in your specific barrel (not all barrels are alike), there may be safety reasons not to. I'm pretty sure my 870's manual said to use cylinder bore or improved chokes only with slugs. -- Kernel

April 12, 2001, 01:03 PM	#12
Charles Johnson Member Join Date: January 16, 2001 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 73	I have an update. I tried the same slugs (Federal 2 3/4"), but I forgot to change from the ic choke to mod. The ic choke gave immeasurable groups because only 2 of 5 hit the paper! Unfortunately, I didn't have any more of the Fed slugs so when I realized I hadn't swapped chokes, I only had Brenneke 2 3/4" High Velocity slugs left. These yielded a 6" group centered around the bullseye at 100 yds. Actually, the first round was right on the 10 ring. I will post a pic when I get home. At 25 yards, the Brenneke was just a little high over point of aim. I'll measure and update later. I then ran out of Brenekkes before shooting at 50 yds, so I had to switch to Federal 3" Magnum High Shock slugs. The shot higher at 50. I'll post the measurement later as well. Sorry for the incomplete data - I was in a hurry last night, plus I wanted to sight in my brother's Marlin 444P.

April 12, 2001, 03:14 PM	#13
trjake Member Join Date: February 2, 2001 Posts: 65	I have one 870 w/ 18" barrel, and with a Winchester slug I had to aim at the bottom right of the target to get hits in the center at 100 yds. Go figure. And no, I don't use that particular slug anymore.

April 15, 2001, 02:57 PM	#15
Jeff Thomas Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 1998 Location: Texas Posts: 4,753	When I took a weekend Gunsite tactical shotgun class in Phoenix, we spent a little time sighting in (ghost rings) with slugs ... at 50 and 100 yards, as I recall. Certainly not rifle performance, and we didn't measure groups, but ... none of us would have felt too undergunned if we had to engage enemy targets at that range with slugs. Mine was an 870, 18" cylinder bore with ghost ring sights, using the Federal rifled slugs. I'd estimate they were 6" groups, give or take ... I was impressed. Makes a damn big hole as well, obviously. I suppose this is another reason shotguns have such a great reputation for versatility. Regards from AZ