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December 12, 2012, 05:50 PM | #251 | |
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One thing that people are missing with comments like
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There is talk that we may see a system like that is in place in FL. 8 hour class and permit issued by the local sheriff's office. There was a warning from a Anti to his fellow anti's while debating on the house floor the CCW bill that was up for vote last year and this is not word for word but, in a nut shell he said (There will be a time when we will not be able to place restrictions on CCW and the time is coming soon. We should pass this bill). The bill voted on last year was not a good bill for gun owners but was a good one for Anti's, we are not going to see that same bill passed in the coming months.The time for the anti's to place big restrictions on us was the day before yesterday.
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December 12, 2012, 05:59 PM | #252 | |
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December 12, 2012, 06:06 PM | #253 |
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"Marjory of IL law makers are pro 2nd amendment"
Good and I hope that Illinois residents get the best law possible. I don't want anyone to have to put up with what we have here in California. Fortunately, there are some counties that are essentially "shall issue" but I not in one of those. Last edited by jmortimer; December 12, 2012 at 07:08 PM. |
December 12, 2012, 06:13 PM | #254 | |
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December 12, 2012, 06:21 PM | #255 | |
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December 12, 2012, 06:32 PM | #256 | |
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December 12, 2012, 06:40 PM | #257 |
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Madigan and Quinn will do exactly what the Illinois legislature tells them to do. It's still a democracy.
Write good laws, and then make sure they are respected. Willie . |
December 12, 2012, 06:45 PM | #258 | |
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December 12, 2012, 06:53 PM | #259 |
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In the meantime, while your politicians scheme, Alan Gura is writing a petition for grant of cert in the Kachalsky case. He will probably now wait for a decision in Woollard as long as he can, till he has to file.
Should we get a positive decision in Woollard (before Gura must file) this will create the perfect circuit split (the law of the two States being near to identical) and almost guarantees that the SCOTUS takes up the case. If that is the case, then whatever scheme is in place, had better be a good one, or it will be a really short trip to the court for an immediate injunction against it (assuming that the Court finds in favor of Kachalsky). If I can see this, you better believe that the ramifications are seen by the IL politicos. The anti-gun crowd is losing and they know it. I tend to agree with Todd Vandermyde. IL gun owners hold all the cards. |
December 12, 2012, 07:06 PM | #260 |
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Rahm said on the news that he is against carry as every police chief in the country is against such. I supposed he asked everyone.
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December 12, 2012, 07:11 PM | #261 |
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Here's how it will go...gunnies to grabbers:
"You guys want at least training in place before 180 days are up? Fine. Please us! We want no more FOID. We want Chicago permanently out of the gun control biz (strong preemption). We want unlimited cutlery carry to go with our CCWs. We want full reciprocity with anything that even smells like another CCW permit. We want lock-boxes for our boomthings at any of the few places we'll let you disarm us. We want you all to do the Funky Chicken Dance in Daley Plaza. You think we're kidding? You're going to have to give us a LOT before we'll concede to training requirements and costs over $10. Because all we have to do is sit here, twiddle our thumbs and fart in your general direction and in 180 days we get constitutional carry and one hell of a party in downtown Chi-town baby. Leave your gangbanger friends behind if you know what's good for 'em." THAT is where we're at here.
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December 12, 2012, 07:16 PM | #262 |
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So with the law struck down, can I carry now? Since there isn't a law that says I can't? What law would be enforced if the existing one is unconstitutional?
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December 12, 2012, 07:47 PM | #263 | |
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December 12, 2012, 07:52 PM | #264 | |
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December 12, 2012, 08:39 PM | #265 |
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I don't think very many people understand what constitutional carry will look like in Illinois.
The laws that the ISRA was trying to pass previously (HB148 & HB 5745) would override local ordinances. Granted that municipal ordinances are misdemeanors, but still, the state is a patchwork of all sorts of different laws from city to city and constitutional carry wouldn't do anything to stop that. In 180 days - if they didn't either appeal or pass a carry law - you could carry without worrying about being arrested under lllinois AUUW/UUW law, but you could be arrested in some cities for violating a city's "no firearm in a vehicle" ordinance, (or something similar) and have to pay $75, give up your firearm, and all that... and yes each individual law can be challenged. But I don't think the NRA wants constitutional carry and having to deal with a mess like that. They want a state law that provides uniformity concerning the carrying of a firearm - for the whole state. And if all else fails - anti-gun municipalities can always arrest you for creating a public disturbance |
December 12, 2012, 09:18 PM | #266 | |
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December 12, 2012, 09:28 PM | #267 |
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K-MAc is right. Rahm is full of it. A large number of police chiefs and sheriff's are for CCW. Outside of Crook County the % is above 70% in favor. The Illinois Sheriff’s Association has long been in favor of concealed carry.
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December 12, 2012, 09:56 PM | #268 |
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I think Rahm's statement really shows what he cares about. Chiefs of large cities are against concealed carry, he doesn't care about anyone else.
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December 12, 2012, 11:02 PM | #269 | |
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Look at it like those cases where an offical screwed up DNA samples in a lab and put all cases under his/her purview in question. I'd try to be first in line if my rights had been violated like that.
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December 12, 2012, 11:35 PM | #270 |
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Waiting until 2015 for the law and regulations to be written and implemented is a farce. They can adopt any one of the existing laws of other states and be done with it, issuing permits within 90 days. I hope the law-abiding citizens of the state just start carrying, license or no license, beginning on the 4th of July.
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December 12, 2012, 11:47 PM | #271 | |
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You are, however, correct in that because IL has no pre-emption law that municipalities could throw up extra hurdles of their own short of a total ban such as extra training requirements, a special permit for the particular municipality, or mandating either OC or CC within said municipality, but the situation still wouldn't be all that much worse than trying to legally transport an unloaded firearm through said municipalities now. It seems to me that the $64,000 question here is whether the pro-CC legislators view California-style may-issue as better or worse than Constitutional Carry. If they think that Constitutional Carry is still better than May-Issue, then it could become their trump card against the anti-CC legislators. Given the comments that I've read from pro-CC IL legislators, it seems as though what I just described is the strategy: "Either do permits shall-issue or live with no permits at all." |
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December 13, 2012, 12:02 AM | #272 |
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Go shall issue, and chip away, like we did in AZ. We had no CCW at all in 1993, but in 1994 we got a Shall Issue law passed. Since we had state preemption, there was no patchwork of laws to worry about, so I agree, get your Shall-Issue in place AND a preemption law, and work your way up.
I'm thrilled this happened, and hope it leads to bigger wins. |
December 13, 2012, 12:27 AM | #273 |
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So in 180 days or 6 months, there will be some type of state law - finally!
Not sure why 6 months - most of the people on this section who are in law could sit down in a room and come out with a great law in 6 weeks. Anyway, what about the Ordinances like Chicago? They were pretty quick to get an ordinance on the books for owning firearms a year or so ago. After the 180 days, their current ordinance of no firearms outside the house, nor in your backyard, nor the front porch nor the garage (really!) will not be valid anymore. What if they do not have a new ordinance or will they for sure because they don't want to get taken to court? |
December 13, 2012, 01:04 AM | #274 |
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I have no doubt that one or more delay tactics will be employed. That notwithstanding, what rich irony there would be in the two thirds pro-gun majority resisting ANY carry bill, even shall issue, with the net result being so-called constitutional carry. I realize this wouldn't play out exactly like that, because the obvious intent of the court was to allow a licensing scheme to be developed. If more time were needed, the legislature would probably get it.
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December 13, 2012, 01:36 AM | #275 | |
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In the county I live in, Bureau County Illinois Sheriff John E. Thompson was interviewed in the local news paper two days ago. He is very much pro second amendment and very much in favor of citizens right to concealed carry. Still, I’m not getting my hopes up for shall issue CCW. I think it will be very limited. A few hundred permits issued, just to make it look good, then the remaining will be denied. |
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