My bullets don't seem to be going in the case straight?

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

The cartridge in question is a 45/70: When the bullet is fully seated, there is a slight buldge where the base of the bullet pushes out the case wall on one side of the cartride. It looks like my bullet is not seated perfectly. I've noticed this before and I'm wondering why. It is more pronounce with lead bullets, perhaps because they are 0.001" wider. Is this a problem with my die? I'm using a Lee die in a Rockchucker press. I'm wondering if I need a bullet specific seater cup (or whatever it's called). Any thoughts?

[wncchester]

All manufactored things have a tolerance range for dimensions. If you have a minimum tolerance size die - tight - and a minimum tolerance expander plug the necks will be on the minimum side of operating diameter. The seated bullet will then expand the neck as neccessary to get itself into the neck and the bulge you mention will be formed. If those tolerances had run to the large side of the range no such bulge would likely occur. That's no condemnation of any brand, they all do it on a case by case basis! (Pun in there)

And yes, your over-size bullets will indeed make the bulge a bit more prononced.

Since the bulge is due to machining tolerances it will be a crap shoot if you buy another set of dies hoping it will be closer to what you want. Dies within a brand vary as much as they do between brands so changing the color of the box the dies come in is no guarentee of improvement.

A 45-70 is no precision varmit round so, if it were mine, I'd just live with it.

[Grandpa Shooter]

Have you actually measured your bullets to see if they are uniform? A digital caliper is a "must have" in my reloading bag of tools. Set your calipers at the correct dimension for your bullets and try turning them in the calipers to see if they are round. If you set them slightly loose you will be able to check very quickly both overall width at the base, and by rotating them, check for out of round.

It is more likely out of spec bullets in my opinion.

[Sevens]

Before I worried about the bullet sitting in the case straight, I would roll a loaded round on a flat table top and look directly at the bullet (ignoring the brass case entirely) and you should be able to see if that bullet is rolling properly or if it's off-kilter.

Like when you chuck a drill bit in to your drill-- to look at it while it sits there, you can't tell a thing, but spin the drill up and you'll see immediately if that drill bit it bent or chucked in there improperly.

Try that with your loaded rounds and see if the bullet looks "right" when you roll it.

[gandog56]

A whole new meaning to the term "roll your own"!

[Nekron]

What about your seating die insert? Are you using the proper shape for the bullet?

[HOGGHEAD]

There are several different things that could be causing your problem.
1. Die allignment with your shell holder
2. I will not critique Lee dies, other than to say that I do not have any.
3. Buy a Lyman M-Die for your 45-70. It makes belling easy, and fully adjustable.
4. Could be your bullets are out of round??

If you do not want to spend any money then I would first check die alignment with your shell holder. This is a major cause of a lot of peoples run out problems. Tom.

[flashhole]

Any of the sliding sleeve seat dies will provide significantly improved axial alignment over a conventional design die. Hornady makes the least expensive, Redding and Forster have good ones too.

This link shows a Hornady die.

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech...h_notes.htm/49

[langenc]

When seating the bullet-

get it started about 1/3 of the total into the case-

Turn the cartridge case in the shell holder about 180 degrees and

then seat the rest of the way.

If it gets started crooked it might straighten out on the second 'seating'.

[SL1]

I'll second the recomendations for:

1. Stepped expander (like Lyman "M" die, but others make it and you should check to see if you have one, already). This actually expands the case mouth to 2 different diameters. The small diameter is like all expanders, about 0.002" smaller than the bullet. But, the second step, at the case mouth, is about 0.001 over bullet diameter. I adjust my die so that the bullet base slides by finger pressure about 1/32" into the case mouth and stops at the "step." This allows me to start the bullet much straighter than with an expander that simple flares the case mouth like a funnel. The funnel-shaped flare allows the bullet to tip, while the cylindrical expansion down to a step tends to make it straight.

2. Seating dies with sleeves that align the bullets are also a big help. I use Hornady, Forster and Redding, and all work.

If you don't want to spend the money for these dies, then the advice to start the bullet a little way into the case with the press, then turn the cartidge 180° before finishing the seating may help. Also, a seating nose punch that tends to center the bullet might help, too. But, frankly, most of the seating punches for specific bullets have been a waste of money for me. They just don't fit the bullets that well.

Also, make sure your seating dies don't have any crud built-up inside, especially if you are using lead bullets. The lube has a habit of building-up and lead shavings can, also.

Good luck.

SL1

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

I think I figured it out. I believe my bullet seating cup is slightly irregular. You can't see it with the naked eye, but the exterior of it varies by 1.5/1000th of an inch. Also there is a very slight ring (opposite of the buldge) on the top of the bullet where the contact is made with the seating cup. I checked the bullets and they are uniform 0.459". I think I'll call Lee and see if they'll send me a new cup. Thanks for all the replies. I don't know if I could have figured it out without you guys' help.

Thanks!

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

Hats off to Lee Precision. I called them and they are shipping me a new seating plug! Even though they don't seem to think that's the problem. I guess I'll find out next week.

[629 shooter]

When the bullet is fully seated, there is a slight bulge where the base of the bullet pushes out the case wall on one side of the cartride.

My Dillon Square Deal loads 357 rounds like you described and they still shoot very accurately - resizing with a Lee die (in a separate press) eliminated the "case bulge" but the accuracy is basically the same. But the ammo sized with the Lee die looks much better.

I have bought factory .444 Marlin ammo that displayed the "case bulge". Again, shot extremely well.

[sc928porsche]

On a straight or slight taper case like the 45-70 and also pistol cases, the sizing die reduces the case smaller than the bullet diameter. The object of this is to insure that they will fit all weapons in that caliber and to put tension on the bullet to help hold it in place. When you crimp, the crimp is applied to the mouth of the case causing the case to hold tighter to the bullet. You will always notice a slight "bulge" in the case where the bullet is inside the case. Depending on the inside diameter of the sizing die and the outside diameter of the bullet will determine how much of a "bulge" you will see.

[snuffy]

The cartridge in question is a 45/70: When the bullet is fully seated, there is a slight buldge where the base of the bullet pushes out the case wall on one side of the cartridge.

Notice he said on one side of the cartridge. That indicates the bullet is entering off center or at an angle. Then that means upon firing the bullet will hit the lead into the rifling at an angle. Not conducive to accuracy!

The ONLY solution to this is a seating die that holds both the case and bullet tightly and in perfect alignment when starting to seat. Those seating dies cost lots of extra money, but they're worth it! This all assumes that the sizer has done a good, straight job of sizing the case, and the belling,(for cast boolits), is symmetrical.

[BigJakeJ1s]

Hornady seating dies have the sliding alignment sleeve, and they don't cost a whole lot. The seater by itself is $20 at midway, and the whole set is $40.

Andy

[totalloser]

I had a similar problem seating 180 grain plated bullets in .40 s&w. I was setting the expander to only open the case mouth a little way down. Once I set it to open it farther down, it never did it again. Looked pretty ugly, and I noticed a marked loss of accuracy. I don't know if this is the same thing, but might be worth a peek. Good luck!

[Nnobby45]

Try the old pros' trick of seating the bullet in the case a little ways, then turning it in the shell holder 180 degrees, then seating it the rest of the way.

After that, consider that there's a difference in brass thickness from one side of the case to the other.

Find a friend with a concentricity gage (or buy one) who can check the case brand new, after firing, after sizing, and then after bullet seating. You'll see where the misalignment happens. The dial on the gage measures how much it "wobbles" out of alignment.

Improper sizing can pull things out of alignment. On the other hand, a well made die, properly adjusted, can straighten things out. And everything can be undone by the seating die if it's improperly adjusted, or just not made right.

[crazylegs]

I had the same problem once upon a time. I had a sizing die with embeded brass in the carbide so I sent it off to be cleaned up. Well evidently the cleaning was a little to rigarous Come to find out my sizing die was sizing the cases out of round. I bought a new die and that fixed it. Take just a case that's been resized and measure it for concentricity. It could be several problems. all of which have been discussed.
Crazylegs

[snuffy]

Jay, you said that the lead bullets are where the problem starts. Are you pushing the expander far enough into the mouth of the cases? With 45/70 dies, the expander is the second die, it also has a flaring section on it. It must be pushed farther into the case to properly flare the mouth, just like a pistol die would. Lead boolits need more flare than a jacketed bullet would. You should be able to set the boolit on the end of the case, sitting on or "in" the flare without it falling off.

Not flaring enough can cause what you're seeing. The flare will be removed while seating and crimping. Having all the cases trimmed to the same length goes a long way to getting a consistent flare and crimp.

[Dillonhelp]

Having seen this in lots of straight wall cartridges, the easiest solution is to loosen the die lock rings, run a case/cartridge up into the die, and tighten the lock ring ONLY-don't tighten any set screw-with the case up in the die. There is significant play between male and female threads on the 7/8-14 thread size. If you merely spin the die in and tighten the lock ring, the die tips a bit due to the tolerances. Tightening the lock ring under a load keeps the die straight.

[totalloser]

+1 Snuffy. That's what I was getting at, but you stated it much better.

[MrApathy]

I have had hell of a time getting lee seating dies to seat bullets straight it can be done. Hornady seating dies are much better just takes all the trouble of using lee seating die away.

it is possible to get the lee dies to go better it takes some fine time adjusting the die body so you have a tight taper. belling just enough is very important.
sometimes I would use a taper die before seating another time I used a second seating die one to give an initial small seat and allign the bullet as best as could be done the other to finish seating worked great but dont need it anymore since I got hornady seating dies which come 2 two seating plugs that in my experience work great for any bullet you can come up against to seat.

[Nnobby45]

First off, if you're seeing lead shavings you haven't expanded the case mouth enough.

Second. Avoid, like the plague, any die that both seats and crimps in the same operation. Imagine trying to seat a bullet that's trying to crimp it before it's done seating.

Avoid like the double plague, any old die sets that size and expand in one operation. Picture sizing, then flaring the case, then pulling the flared portion back through the sizing portion of the die. In order to have any flare left, it must first be sized to great excess, so that when it comes back through the sizer, it has to spring back to flare.

Different dies stations should perform different functions.

Yes, I know, many rounds have been loaded on the above mentioned dies, but technololgy has moved on.

The concentricity checker I mentioned in my previous post will tell you exactly where the problem develops.

[BigJakeJ1s]

There's no need to avoid a using die that is capable of crimping while seating. Simply adjust the die body upwards to avoid the crimp if you want. Then, when you get tired of the extra step, you won't have to buy a different seating die.

My experience with roll crimping while seating with a Hornady die works much better than my Lee FCD, and saves a step to boot. I don't have experience with a taper crimped cartridge though.

Andy