Hi, my name is AZRedhawk44, and I'm a...

[azredhawk44]

depressed reloader.

I don't mind reloading handgun cartridges. The straight walls, minimal friction with the dies and simplicity are easy to work with.

But oh, the woes of reloading the .308 winchester cartridge!

I started off about 3-4 years ago with this cartridge, using the RCBS "green box" full length sizing die in a RCBS Rockchucker press. I got a lot of broken decapping pins and stuck cases, and so I stuck that sizing die away in the back of the workbench.

I transitioned to Lee dies after having great happiness and satisfaction with their pistol dies. More stuck cases. And more. I used Hornady One-Shot... I used lube pads... didn't seem to matter. I grossly over-lubed just to make sure. I lubed the inside of the sizing die. Didn't matter.

I also started to see scratches when re-sizing. I always tumble my brass prior to resizing for a couple hours to knock all the gunk and residue off them, then shake all the walnut media off. Not sure where the scratches are coming from.

Disappointed with the Lee sizer after a final stuck case which proved impossible to remove (even drilling and tapping the flash hole did no good, just ripping out the threads in the press ram), I transitioned to a Forster die. Much happiness ensued with this die, until my scratches started to re-appear again.

Help me, guys. How do I prevent these scratches?

Also, are Federal cartridges just weaker on the extraction rim than other brass? I'm predominantly using Federal brass, but have had stuck cases with Winchester and NATO brass as welll... strangely, I've never had a stuck Remington case though...

I'm frustrated enough that I'm thinking of going purely retail with my .308 ammo, to the great sorrow of my billfold.

[BAD_KARMA]

The only time I have seen resizing dies start scratching was when I used a 45 ACP steel die without lube to see how long I could. I would say that your problem is lube. Have you used the Lee lube? It is very good. Put some on your finger and lube the case just under the shoulder. A little on a Q-tip for the inside of the neck.

If the die is scratching cases it is ruined. You will need a new size die. The other problem could be your shell holder. Try a new one.

[joneb]

I have a bolt action chambered in .308 win. that I reload for using a Rockchucker press and the RCBS FL group A two die set in the green box I use the RCBS case lube-2 and have no trouble sizing Fed, Rem, Win, Nosler or Norma brass as long as I lube every case all is well. I apply the case lube on a foam pad and roll the case on it, there is no need for lubing the neck or over lubing the case body just need a thin film. I remove the decapping pin/expander assembly and clean the die often. The lines on your cases are most likely from grit ?
I back off my sizer die as much as I can get away with in my rifle.
good luck jj

Oh ya, the shell holder should be a #3

[shepherddogs]

Is it just brass fired in one rifle? I got a Ruger VT in 308 with an oversized chamber. The brass would swell too big and get stuck in my sizing dies. I sent it back to Ruger and they replaced the barrel on it. Problem solved. I thought it was the lube I was using or something. Then I realized that cases fired from my other 308 never had the problem.

[azredhawk44]

Is it just brass fired in one rifle?

Yes, it is... My M1A Scout from Springfield.

Up until last week, I haven't had another .308 to compare against, but I just completed my M14 build on an Armscorp receiver and Kreiger/Criterion barrel.

Now, I need to go out and shoot it and then resize some of the resultant brass for comparison... but I need a new sizer die again.

Oh ya, the shell holder should be a #3

I'm using a Lee #2 shellholder... but that's the correct one for .308 Winchester.

I remove the decapping pin/expander assembly and clean the die often. The lines on your cases are most likely from grit ?

I'm at a loss as to how it gets in there. The dies are stored in their boxes, free from dust, when not in use. Cartridges are tumbled prior to sizing, all walnut remnants removed, and lubed.

Same precautions as my 357/44/45/9mm dies... heck, even my .30-30 dies. I don't have this problem with .30-30, using a Lee FL sizer for it.

What am I missing? I've definitely got some scratches in my die. I can see them. Can it be buffed out, or will my die lose tolerance from that?

Do Springer M1A's have notoriously sloppy chambers? Or, is it the extraction process while still hot that is making the brass expand so much and therefor the resizing process so difficult? Although that wouldn't explain my problem with scratches in the die.

[Sidetracked]

You managed to reply with more information between me reading the post and clicking the 'reply' button. I had a whole lot crap typed up, that doesn't fit with the new info you gave us. So...

I really don't know what to tell you.
Something is tearing up your die. Dirt, brass shavings, corrosion.... who knows. Only you can figure it out. (Corrosion would also be a big cause of sticking cases. Cases don't stick when lubed properly in a good die.)


As for the broken decapping pins - Were you trying to decap military crimped primers? The standard RCBS decapping dies are not designed for that. They make special tools for decapping military crimps.

Having your Lee die reamed by a gunsmith to remove the scratches would cost more than a set of competition dies. It's not an option, unless you like wasting money.

#1 Figure out what caused the scratches.
#2 Resolve the problem.
#3 Buy a new set of Lee dies, if that is what you prefer.

As for me... I have been reloading for 25 years now. I have used Lyman, RCBS, Hornady, Redding, and Lee dies. RCBS won for me. Redding gets my money when they have something RCBS doesn't, but otherwise it's RCBS. I will NEVER buy another Lee die. I have had too many quality control problems. The last set, 7.62x39, actually had a ring of steel shavings and burs on the neck, inside the sizing die.
Lee is the Bachmann of reloading. (Kudos to those that get the reference.)

Yes, most M1As including Springfields, have chambers approaching maximum specs. The nature of an autoloader requires easy chambering to ensure proper function, even when dirty.

[azredhawk44]

I've had a bit of an idea how this might be happening:

I'll admit I am not religious in cleaning my sizing dies. Probably a by-product as I started off reloading pistol cartridges with a carbide sizer.

I think that I am leaving the die with a thin coat of lube sitting at the entry to the sizing chamber, which is either dirty to begin with or gets dirty. I let this stuff congeal there, then come back and reload days or weeks later. Some of it gets pushed back into the sizing chamber between the walls of the clean/lubed cartridge and the die. Thus begin the scratches. After awhile the scratches act like the blood grooves on a sword... they provide drainage for the lubricant and any foreign material to enter to avoid the pressure of sizing.

I also haven't seen this in my 30-30 dies because I don't have the same degree of sizing to accomplish (being a manual action), and I shoot the lever gun far less than the .308.

Dillon has a carbide .308 sizing die, but it's $120. Is it worth it? Going forward, I will definitely clean my sizing die after every session to avoid this in the future.

Or should I just get another RCBS, Redding, Lee or Forster?

As for the broken decapping pins - Were you trying to decap military crimped primers? The standard RCBS decapping dies are not designed for that. They make special tools for decapping military crimps.

My very first batch of brass was NATO stuff, but it was only about 100 cases. I got a good deal on 1000 Federal cases, so that's my fodder of choice right now. Between the NATO and Federal brass, I bought about 500 mixed Remington and Winchester brass, by the 100 lot at Sportsman's Warehouse.

So yeah, I was decapping military primers to begin with. But I was breaking pins on commercial cases and on deprimed/reloaded NATO cases on which I removed the crimp. Had a similar problem with RCBS and 45acp, with an off-centered decapping assembly, and haven't been too eager to go back to RCBS since. In both instances, the decapping pin would splinter vertically on the down-stroke. Very weird. I warrantied the assembly, but got similar results with off-center hits on the flash hole.

[Sevens]

Confession time: I've never cleaned any of my reloading dies, ever.

I've been loading .223 since 1992 with Lee dies using a FL sizer and Lee lube-- all my brass has been LC as fired directly from U.S. Govt issued M-16's. That's the most I've done in bottlenecked rifle, but I've also loaded .30-06 in bottlenecked rifle. I've loaded a heap of .30 Carbine, and of course, all the pistol calibers with carbide dies.

Whatever your problem is, I would argue that is has nothing to do with dirt in your dies, or how well you clean them.

I would suggest you get a hold of 10 pieces of brass fired in someone else's rifle, and try to size those.

[Sidetracked]

It sounds like you're not much of an RCBS fan now. I can understand that, based on your experiences.

I don't think you need to shell out the cash for a Dillon Carbide die. If you still think the Lee die should be replaced, I would just buy another from one of the companies that uses harder steel. All the companies mentioned earlier are fine. The harder steel will be less likely to get scratched, and also less likely to become empregnated with grit.

Off center hits with RCBS decapping pins... I had the same problem with a few sets of dies. BUT in my case, I found an easy fix. Instead of tightening the knurled jam nut on the decapping rod by hand (like the instructions say), I started snugging them down with leather-wrapped pliers. Problem solved, perfectly centered.

[hodaka]

I have a mix of roughly 50:50 Lee and RCBS dies. I have broken a number of RCBS decapping pins, but never one from Lee. I have never stuck a case using Imperial sizeing lube or Lee lube. I have stuck a number with the One shot. Some of my dies leave scratches but I don't worry about it. The scratches don't effect anything. I would suspect, as previously posted, that the scratches are from the chamber of the rifle, not the dies. I rarely clean my dies either.

[wncchester]

"...I grossly over-lubed just to make sure. I lubed the inside of the sizing die. Didn't matter."

Even so, all of your problems are from insufficent, or improperly applied case lube. Especially so down near the base/web, that lower part of a case is where sticking occurs. Try applying a wax or tube type lube with your fingers, checking to be certain that a film of lube completely covers the lower portion. (It is critical that spray lubes be shaken before and during use or most of what you're spraying will be propellent.)

Dry, or nearly dry, cases not only stick but, even when they don't they allow brass to rub hard against the steel walls of a sizer and they gall (and it happens on carbide sizers also, so an occasional lubed case helps them too). That galling leaves tiny bits of the softer metal attached to the die as if it were welded on. The resulting bits of metal then scratch each successive case, making bigger scratches as it continues to get larger. The only way to get rid of galled brass is to lap it out. You can return it to the maker or do it yourself.

You can lap your scratching, galled sizers with a short length of split dowel wrapped with silicon carbide paper, 400 to 1000 grit, used wet or oiled and spun in a drill motor until clean.

You cannot hurt cabide dies this way at all and it is difficult to harm case hardened steel sizers unless you use coarser grits for a long time.

[TimRB]

This is a common problem. Little bits of brass are sticking to your die, and you need to clean them out. Clean your dies as you would a copper-fouled bore. If need be, use a little polishing compound or other light abrasive. Been there, done that.

Tim

[elkman06]

I too have never cleaned my 06, .270, .243, or 300wm dies in 5 yrs. I use RCBS green box as well and FL resize all of them. I did have a problem w/ a bent decapping pin/bolt assy once and replaced it w/ a new one I picked up at Cabelas. I definitely like the newer style pins. Was your die set new?
Sounds like something or some part of your process is allowing a bunch of brass to work into your dies. Too much lube is not a good thing. I have found that the thinnest adequate coating to be best. I just transitioned from RCBS water soluble lube to Lee oil based and am getting good results as well.
Good Luck
elkman06

[arizona hunter]

Are you putting some lube on the 308 cases? If you are full length sizing this is a must with any brand of dies.

I use Lee and RCBS dies for several cartridges and the only time I've ever had a problem was when I failed to lube the cases.

[joneb]

I'm using a Lee #2 shellholder... but that's the correct one for .308 Winchester.

I'm sorry the shell holder for RCBS is a #3

[azredhawk44]

I would suspect, as previously posted, that the scratches are from the chamber of the rifle, not the dies. I rarely clean my dies either.

Absolutely not, and blasphemies upon you for suggesting I have a scratched M1A chamber! I keep that puppy very clean, and I know for a fact it is the sizing die because:
1. I can see the scratches in there,
2. I can resize new retail brass and see (and feel ) the scratches in the cases.

I'm sorry the shell holder for RCBS is a #3

No big deal... each of the companies use a different number to denote that particular shell holder. I think I have an RCBS one and a Forster one, too, and they each have a different number on them.

Dry, or nearly dry, cases not only stick but, even when they don't they allow brass to rub hard against the steel walls of a sizer and they gall (and it happens on carbide sizers also, so an occasional lubed case helps them too). That galling leaves tiny bits of the softer metal attached to the die as if it were welded on. The resulting bits of metal then scratch each successive case, making bigger scratches as it continues to get larger. The only way to get rid of galled brass is to lap it out. You can return it to the maker or do it yourself.

Brass galling? I'll get some wooden dowel and 600+ grit sand paper to see if I can get it out of my Forster sizing die. Would Flitz polish be appropriate to use for this process, or should I use water or oil as described?

And I'll switch back to the Lee lube.

Also, would one of the nylon or bronze shotgun bore brushes spun in a drill help clean this out, or cause more damage?

[6thMichCav]

I would have to say--after reloading and shooting over 5,000 rounds--you are not the only one who has experienced scratching and tough case sizing with the .308.

I've shot and reloaded 8x57, .270, .243, 7x57, 7.62x54R, 8x56R, 6.5x55, and 7mm-08 (yes, you can see at one time I was a surplus guy). The ONLY cartridge that ever caused me these problems was the "everyday" .308 Win, and it was after I was pretty used to my reloading setup (generally RCBS everything, with a sprinkling of Lee and Lyman).

I have not found anything that has improved the situation, and I only use factory (non-surplus) brass. The two .308's I have owned were a Chilean 1912 re-bore, and a Tikka .308 Whitetail Hunter. It didn't matter whether the brass was Remington, Federal, or Winchester--I had hard neck sizing, hard case sizing (and I usually neck-size only), and bullet shaving on seating.

Had I not reloaded many, many rounds before trying the .308, I might have cashed it in and sold my tools and components. Luckily, I shoot my other rifles much more often, so the "scratchy" .308 can just sit there, and I'll take my 7mm-08 hunting this year.

[shepherddogs]

RCBS will repair or replace your stuck dies. I sent them 2 sizers and they got the stuck cases out and polished the inside just to be sure they were right. I don't even remember if they charged me. If they did it wasn't much. I just remember thinking what a great company. Anyway it turned out the barrel was the culprit. RCBS had me send 5 fired cases with the dies and measured them. They said the chamber was on the very limit of being too large, but was in spec. I sent the rifle back to Ruger with a note saying I didn't want a gun I couldn't reload for and they replaced the barrel. Problem never occurred again.

[Scorch]

I used to use waterless hand cleaner as a lube (the white lanolin-based kind without grit). Never had a stuck case, so I can't tell you how hard they are to remove from my dies.

The scratches are likely caused by carbon stuck to the outside of the case. I always tumble my brass before reloading, wiping it before lubing it. I have never seen the problem you are describing in any of my dies.

For small pieces of brass stuck to the dies and small scratches, you can polish your dies out with a small mandrel wrapped with steel wool.

[totalloser]

I just had a thought to share; What if it's just rust? This was mentioned earlier-corrosion, but if your storage area where your dies are sitting, is humid/cold, perhaps the steel is getting surface rust. Humidity is not your friend.

[The Lovemaster]

Rust is a good thought, but it's not a problem here in the desert where we live. Heck to us, 20% qualifies as "humid" and we're dying from it in the summer.