First Rifle For Daughter - Page 2

Miss Stana · June 2, 2013, 02:36 PM

In Nevada, the legal hunting age is 12. So as soon as our children were old enough to take hunter safety and get their license, we took them hunting. Being married to a hunter, who believed in having a gun for every species, plus back ups, there were always several rifles for our children to choose from for their first hunt. They tried them out and picked what fit them best. Then if they got their deer, they kept the rifle. Great insentive. They chose 30-06, 270, and similar calibers. Most of the deer rifles we have are bolt actions, and even our smallest daughter handled the recoil fine. They all grew up shooting 22s.

std7mag · June 29, 2013, 08:39 AM

I admit I was a little shocked, when my daughter expressed an interest in hunting. I had given it up for several years.

I found a deal on a Weatherby Vangard in .243 Win.
The rifle fit her rather well. Although she is now 15 yrs old, and 6'2"...

As with the one post, she enjoys shooting my Mossberg in .22 WMR.
Not so much the Weatherby. She is plenty accurate with the Weatherby, she just doesn't enjoy shooting it. "too much recoil"

I'm looking into a stock that is lighter, stiffer, and with a higher comb that the Weatherby.
Something else to consider, the Vangard weighs almost 8lbs. I don't even like lugging it through the woods... lol

JASmith · June 29, 2013, 07:55 PM

from std7mag

Quote:

...She is plenty accurate with the Weatherby, she just doesn't enjoy shooting it. "too much recoil"...

What bullet weights has she tried?

If she hasn't already tried them already, try some of the Hornady or Nosler 80 gr all-copper bullets. Should the factory loads still be a bit stiff, handloading down to the starting loads will still give plenty of reach and lower the recoil even more.

The bullets should still work well for deer within reasonable hunting distances.

The recoil will be a lot closer to what one sees with 75 gr bullets in lightweight .223 Remington AR-15, bolt action, and single-shot rifles!

That will help her develop a level of comfort that could lead to a long-lasting affection for the rifle and cartridge...

std7mag · June 30, 2013, 11:01 AM

We have been shooting Federal 100 gr. sp, and have tried some Hornady Superperformance 95gr sst.

Have tried a few of the lighter weight varmint rounds also.

I think LOP is good for her, just needs a slightly higher comb, and a slightly different angle on the butt pad. (aka what Savage did for their Lady Hunter series stocks)

JASmith · June 30, 2013, 07:59 PM

The .243 is about as good as it gets for a light-recoiling deer rifle but one improve even that with lighter all-copper or premium bullets instead of the 100-gr class bullets.

Here are some numbers for a 6 lb rifle with 24" barrel:

Federal 100 gr PowerShock SP MV 2960 Recoli 12.7 ft-lb
Hornady 95 gr SST Superformance MV 3185 ft/sec Recoil 13.4 ft-lb
Barnes 80 gr TTSX MV 3350 Recoil 11.2 ft-lb
Hornady 80 gr Guilding Metal Expanding Superformance MV 3425 Recoil 11.9 ft-lb
80 gr can be loaded to 3000 ft/sec Recoil 8.5 ft-lb (some loads are even slower!)

That last item will still work better for deer-class game for reasonable hunting ranges than even the classic bullets weighing 100 gr. The interesting thing is that the 8.5 ft-lb is awful close to the recoil of the .223 Remington in deer-hunting loads.

The lower recoil energy, coupled with your improved stock and good supervision will allow her to develop some excellent shooting habits. She can move to higher velocities and heavier bullets as she gains more confidence.

std7mag · July 1, 2013, 06:17 AM

The really surprising thing is she enjoys shooting my Colt Navy 36cal, and especially my Colt Walker.
navy- .375 lead ball with 22 gr. pyrodex
Walker-.440 lead ball with 45 gr. pyrodex

Gotta luv old bowling pins...

Wyosmith · July 1, 2013, 08:31 AM

If recoil is a big problem it's best to look at a semi-auto instead of a bolt, lever or pump.
Consider that the 6.8SPC is in the same power range as the 257 Roberts and has less recoil in an AR-15 rifle than a 223 does in a bolt action.
Other than the AR-15, most semi-autos are heavier than a small girl would like to carry, but the Browning lightweight BAR is about the same weight as a mid range bolt gun and can be had in 243 and also 25-06

Maybe just looking at an auto is going to be a bigger help than just reducing the caliber to a 223 or something of that nature.

22-rimfire · July 1, 2013, 06:40 PM

I would suggest either 243 win or 7mm-08. It all sort of depends on their interest. If the rifle kicks a little that's fine but it depends on how much they are shooting.

I never particularly enjoyed shooting a 243 win from a bench and I was 15 when I bought a 243. I used it for both deer and varmints. Had a blast but I never really liked shooting from the bench as your preception of recoil is at it's max at that point. In the field, no big thing for rifles of this power level.

I just accepted the fact that I was shooting a "high powered rifle" and there would be recoil. I stayed away from 12 ga slugs... ooch. Still don't care much for them other than for "business".

jimbob86 · July 1, 2013, 07:03 PM

Quote:

I think LOP is good for her, just needs a slightly higher comb, and a slightly different angle on the butt pad. (aka what Savage did for their Lady Hunter series stocks)

There are comb raising kits available ....... I put one on my 721, which had a lot of drop to the stock (for use with the original iron sights) ...... with a scope on it, it was hard to maintain a good sight pic and a good cheek weld ..... so when the gun recoiled, you got pulled down into the comb ......getting whacked in the cheek on every shot made the relatively mild recoil of 270WIN out of a 9 lb. rifle seem worse than it was......

That and a good GI style leather sling ....... those make shooting that gun very pleasant.

JASmith · July 1, 2013, 07:15 PM

from std7mag --

Quote:

The really surprising thing is she enjoys shooting my Colt Navy 36cal, and especially my Colt Walker.
navy- .375 lead ball with 22 gr. pyrodex
Walker-.440 lead ball with 45 gr. pyrodex

Gotta luv old bowling pins...

OK, I'm starting to get the picture.

Those pistols with that much powder will rock back pretty good. So the magnitude of the recoil of the .243 is not likely the issue. She may not have expected that rifles DO recoil enough to be felt so she may not have snugged the butt close into her shoulder and gotten a good cheek weld. Slacking on those details will make the felt recoil much greater!

Stay the course with what you have described for making the rifle fit her better. That will help her get good pre-shot contact.

She may still have some arm growth left, so keeping the option for a thicker recoil pad in a few years may be wise. She is headed toward having a lifetime of fun shooting with that rifle!

Cheers!

jimbob86 · July 1, 2013, 10:28 PM

IME ....... expectation is 90% of recoil: "If you believe it will kick you in the face, it will." ........ if you are concentrating on the sight pic and the target reaction, you will not notice reasonable levels of recoil.

Doubt me? Ask yourself if you have ever remembered the sound or recoil of the shot when you shot a deer. I can always recall the reaction of the animal> a visual thing , but never the sound .... I can recall sound right up when the shot is taken, but after that, it's all visual ..... and if you are shooing at something that registers the hit, whether it is a live aimal or a milk jug full of water ..... immediate positive feedback negates or severely mitigates the negative feedback of recoil......

WV_gunner · July 3, 2013, 01:24 PM

My vote goes for .243 Winchester. My first gun was a lever 30-30, my dad had bought Remington ammo for it. I hated shooting that gun, kicked hard. I started deer hunting when I was 10. At the age, I was a bigger kid. I believe I was around 5'10" or so. Ended up getting a doe the last day of the season, the scope cut my face. Dad thought I couldn't handle the recoil of a little 30-30. He shot it, busted his nose real good. Turns out the ammo was severely overloaded, thanks Remington. So, my advice is check the ammo you buy and make sure the bullets look seated in the cases completely. These were so over filled the bullets couldn't be seated completely. Anyways, the .243 is good for long range and isn't a hard recoiler. I've hunted with one for years and been given a hard time about, many dont realize its a .308 necked down. I use Winchester Super X in my Savage 110. Last year I took a deer out at around 400 yards or so with a cheap scope.

jimbob86 · July 3, 2013, 01:39 PM

Quote:

My first gun was a lever 30-30, my dad had bought Remington ammo for it. I hated shooting that gun, kicked hard. I started deer hunting when I was 10. At the age, I was a bigger kid. I believe I was around 5'10" or so. Ended up getting a doe the last day of the season, the scope cut my face. Dad thought I couldn't handle the recoil of a little 30-30. He shot it, busted his nose real good. Turns out the ammo was severely overloaded, thanks Remington.

I'd bet the harsh percieved recoil was more a problem of a stock made for the original low profile irons and a scope mounted such that the shooters face was not in contact with it. That scope to the nose is a dead giveaway.

Think about it: If the shooters head has to be up off the stock to see through the scope, and the gun recoils rearward ..... the head will either get whacked with the scope or get yanked back and down by the neck, into the stock ......

If it was a case of "hot loaded" ammo, then extraction would become an issue ......don't ask me how I know that.

June 2, 2013, 02:36 PM	#26
Miss Stana Member Join Date: May 17, 2013 Posts: 40	In Nevada, the legal hunting age is 12. So as soon as our children were old enough to take hunter safety and get their license, we took them hunting. Being married to a hunter, who believed in having a gun for every species, plus back ups, there were always several rifles for our children to choose from for their first hunt. They tried them out and picked what fit them best. Then if they got their deer, they kept the rifle. Great insentive. They chose 30-06, 270, and similar calibers. Most of the deer rifles we have are bolt actions, and even our smallest daughter handled the recoil fine. They all grew up shooting 22s. __________________ My life's goal is to put a rifle behind every blade of grass! AIC Custom Rifles

June 30, 2013, 07:59 PM	#30
JASmith Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2009 Posts: 157	The .243 is about as good as it gets for a light-recoiling deer rifle but one improve even that with lighter all-copper or premium bullets instead of the 100-gr class bullets. Here are some numbers for a 6 lb rifle with 24" barrel: Federal 100 gr PowerShock SP MV 2960 Recoli 12.7 ft-lb Hornady 95 gr SST Superformance MV 3185 ft/sec Recoil 13.4 ft-lb Barnes 80 gr TTSX MV 3350 Recoil 11.2 ft-lb Hornady 80 gr Guilding Metal Expanding Superformance MV 3425 Recoil 11.9 ft-lb 80 gr can be loaded to 3000 ft/sec Recoil 8.5 ft-lb (some loads are even slower!) That last item will still work better for deer-class game for reasonable hunting ranges than even the classic bullets weighing 100 gr. The interesting thing is that the 8.5 ft-lb is awful close to the recoil of the .223 Remington in deer-hunting loads. The lower recoil energy, coupled with your improved stock and good supervision will allow her to develop some excellent shooting habits. She can move to higher velocities and heavier bullets as she gains more confidence. __________________ Nevermore... http://shootersnotes.com

June 29, 2013, 08:39 AM	#27
std7mag Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2013 Location: Central Taxylvania.. Posts: 3,609	I admit I was a little shocked, when my daughter expressed an interest in hunting. I had given it up for several years. I found a deal on a Weatherby Vangard in .243 Win. The rifle fit her rather well. Although she is now 15 yrs old, and 6'2"... As with the one post, she enjoys shooting my Mossberg in .22 WMR. Not so much the Weatherby. She is plenty accurate with the Weatherby, she just doesn't enjoy shooting it. "too much recoil" I'm looking into a stock that is lighter, stiffer, and with a higher comb that the Weatherby. Something else to consider, the Vangard weighs almost 8lbs. I don't even like lugging it through the woods... lol

June 30, 2013, 11:01 AM	#29
std7mag Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2013 Location: Central Taxylvania.. Posts: 3,609	We have been shooting Federal 100 gr. sp, and have tried some Hornady Superperformance 95gr sst. Have tried a few of the lighter weight varmint rounds also. I think LOP is good for her, just needs a slightly higher comb, and a slightly different angle on the butt pad. (aka what Savage did for their Lady Hunter series stocks)

July 1, 2013, 06:17 AM	#31
std7mag Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2013 Location: Central Taxylvania.. Posts: 3,609	The really surprising thing is she enjoys shooting my Colt Navy 36cal, and especially my Colt Walker. navy- .375 lead ball with 22 gr. pyrodex Walker-.440 lead ball with 45 gr. pyrodex Gotta luv old bowling pins...

July 1, 2013, 08:31 AM	#32
Wyosmith Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2010 Location: Shoshoni Wyoming Posts: 2,713	If recoil is a big problem it's best to look at a semi-auto instead of a bolt, lever or pump. Consider that the 6.8SPC is in the same power range as the 257 Roberts and has less recoil in an AR-15 rifle than a 223 does in a bolt action. Other than the AR-15, most semi-autos are heavier than a small girl would like to carry, but the Browning lightweight BAR is about the same weight as a mid range bolt gun and can be had in 243 and also 25-06 Maybe just looking at an auto is going to be a bigger help than just reducing the caliber to a 223 or something of that nature.

July 1, 2013, 06:40 PM	#33
22-rimfire Senior Member Join Date: February 19, 2005 Location: Tennessee Posts: 5,323	I would suggest either 243 win or 7mm-08. It all sort of depends on their interest. If the rifle kicks a little that's fine but it depends on how much they are shooting. I never particularly enjoyed shooting a 243 win from a bench and I was 15 when I bought a 243. I used it for both deer and varmints. Had a blast but I never really liked shooting from the bench as your preception of recoil is at it's max at that point. In the field, no big thing for rifles of this power level. I just accepted the fact that I was shooting a "high powered rifle" and there would be recoil. I stayed away from 12 ga slugs... ooch. Still don't care much for them other than for "business".

July 1, 2013, 10:28 PM	#36
jimbob86 Junior member Join Date: October 4, 2007 Location: All the way to NEBRASKA Posts: 8,722	IME ....... expectation is 90% of recoil: "If you believe it will kick you in the face, it will." ........ if you are concentrating on the sight pic and the target reaction, you will not notice reasonable levels of recoil. Doubt me? Ask yourself if you have ever remembered the sound or recoil of the shot when you shot a deer. I can always recall the reaction of the animal> a visual thing , but never the sound .... I can recall sound right up when the shot is taken, but after that, it's all visual ..... and if you are shooing at something that registers the hit, whether it is a live aimal or a milk jug full of water ..... immediate positive feedback negates or severely mitigates the negative feedback of recoil......

July 3, 2013, 01:24 PM	#37
WV_gunner Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2011 Location: WV Posts: 938	My vote goes for .243 Winchester. My first gun was a lever 30-30, my dad had bought Remington ammo for it. I hated shooting that gun, kicked hard. I started deer hunting when I was 10. At the age, I was a bigger kid. I believe I was around 5'10" or so. Ended up getting a doe the last day of the season, the scope cut my face. Dad thought I couldn't handle the recoil of a little 30-30. He shot it, busted his nose real good. Turns out the ammo was severely overloaded, thanks Remington. So, my advice is check the ammo you buy and make sure the bullets look seated in the cases completely. These were so over filled the bullets couldn't be seated completely. Anyways, the .243 is good for long range and isn't a hard recoiler. I've hunted with one for years and been given a hard time about, many dont realize its a .308 necked down. I use Winchester Super X in my Savage 110. Last year I took a deer out at around 400 yards or so with a cheap scope.