223 newbie bullet question

Noahlanier9 · June 12, 2013, 12:38 PM

So I am hopefully going to start reloading soon, I have everything I need except the primers and bullets, but that is why I'm here. I am a complete newbie trying to figure this out and I feel confident in every aspect but bullets. So hopefully some of you more experienced reloaders can help me out. I'm loading 223 for a AR, I plan on reloading 55 grain fmj bullets with bl-c(2) powder. I have Lyman's 49th manual and for a 55 grain bullet they use a '55 grain jacketed spt.' And on hodgons website for my powder and a 55 grain bullet they use the following bullets: 55 grain bar tsx fb, 55 grain Spr sp, and a 55 grain sfire.
How do I know what data to use? What is the difference between all those bullets? What makes a bullet 'jacketed'? And how do I know what bullets are of similar construction to each other? Thanks for the help!

dmazur · June 12, 2013, 05:36 PM

Some of the reloading manuals, such as Sierra, have a section on bullets which includes diagrams of how they are constructed. The abreviations used by that manufacturer are usually listed, but may not match those used by other manufacturers.

The "bar tsx fb" is most likely a Barnes TSX all-copper bullet
The "Spr sp" might be Speer soft point or Spitzer soft point.
The "sfire" refers to a frangible bullet

The first and third entries probably have different coefficients of friction than copper and those loads shouldn't be used with copper jacketed bullets.

Using lead data for jacketed bullets is a similar concern. Lead and copper don't have the same amount of friction, so the developed pressures aren't the same.

A jacketed bullet is a lead bullet with a copper alloy jacket formed around it. This design permits driving the bullet to very high velocities without "leading" the bore.

The general rule, as I understand it, is that bullets of the same material, weight and shape can generally be substituted. That is, a .308 150gr Sierra SP is probably very similar to a .308 150gr Hornady SP.

If the material, weight, or shape differs, something is going to be different. The powder charge might be different, or the recommended COL.

If blind substitutions are made, overpressure can result. The cause might be exceeding recommended COL and having a bullet jammed in the lands, or it might be exceeding a safe charge (OK for published bullet, not for yours.)

To the shooter with the damaged rifle and/or trip to the hospital, there isn't any practical difference.

SVTCobra306 · June 12, 2013, 08:02 PM

I don't know that I would assume from one company to another with similar weights and shapes. From what I've learned, the jacket thickness alone, which you cannot measure easily, will make a difference. For example, Speer gives significantly higher load data for their 55 gr SP than Hornady does for their 55 gr SP. They are similar in size, shape, and weight.. the only real bullet difference I can imagine would be the thickness of the jacket, the thinner it is, the more it expands, the more pressure you develop.

They can be a bit outdated, but I like to use Loadbooks USA books for each caliber. Especially now when finding the same components can be difficult, it's a good starting point for brands that I don't have a specific book for.

Jeff2131 · June 12, 2013, 08:26 PM

The more manuals the better. Read alot and compare. And it always helps to ask questions on this forum and also go to bullet manufacturer website and or powder manufacturer website to check the published load data there too. I have reloaded 1000's of .223 and i find that as long as the weight is the same from bullet to bullet the outcome doesnt vary much. Now if youre going for pin point accuracy, specific velocities, and trying to really fine tune your rounds as opposed to simply bulk reloading for the sake of recreational shooting then yes, id would def urge you to consider the type of bullet along with weight. But the bottom line is.....BUY MORE MANUALS AND GATHER AS MUCH INFO AS YOU POSSIBLY CAN.

Jeff2131 · June 12, 2013, 08:30 PM

....btw....imr 4320 is a great middle of the road all around good powder for .223. Its not too slow, not too fast and if you are using a perfect powder measurer, it wont leak out the sides...lol. i tried blc2 and was not happy with the overall outcome. Imr 4320 is kind of a universal powder so to speak...it can be used in alog of caliber rifles and many different weight bullets.

dmazur · June 12, 2013, 08:32 PM

Load data varies because the test barrels, equipment, etc. are not standardized between manufacturers.

Plated bullets have introduced an entirely new level of confusion, with some mfgrs recommending using lead data, and others stating their plating is thick enough that the (reduced) jacketed data should be used.

Interesting theory that the thickness of a bullet's jacket controls expansion while it is in the barrel...

steve4102 · June 12, 2013, 09:15 PM

Page one of Lyman 223 data list all bullets use for testing. Your 55gr SPT is a Sierra SPT, which stands for "Spitzer". You can use this data with other brands of jacketed bullets.

https://www.sierrabullets.com/store/...-dia-50-gr-SPT

As stated above,
The BAR TSX stands for Barnes TSX which is an ALL Copper bullet. Use this data for all copper bullets like the Barnes, do not use this data for Jacketed bullets.

The 55gr SPR SP, stands for Speer Spitzer. You can use this data for other Jacketed bullets as well.

http://www.speer-bullets.com/ballist...ail.aspx?id=11

The 55gr Sfire stands for Sinterfire a lead free frangible bullet. Use this data only for these bullets.

http://www.sinterfire.com/Default.aspx

603Country · June 12, 2013, 09:27 PM

I'm thinking that the BL-C(2) will work just fine. One of the best groups ever shot was with BL-C(1), so don't be thinking that your powder is inferior. That said, I haven't gotten quite as good accuracy from that powder with the 40 gr Sierra Varminter than I get from H335 and the 40 gr Nosler BT, but I think that's the fault of the bullet and not the powder.

jersurf101 · June 12, 2013, 10:33 PM

The lyman 49 data is pretty low compared to others for the start loads compared to other published sources in my experience. I just loaded some 55 grn .223 FMJ hornaday bullets with Benchmark. Lyman had their data 1.3 grains under Lee for the start load. I like that to be honest. I don't think the Lyman 49th will steer you wrong as long as you are looking at jacketed bullets of the correct weight and start at the minimum published data. They cycled my AR just fine.

June 12, 2013, 12:38 PM	#1
Noahlanier9 Junior Member Join Date: June 12, 2013 Posts: 1	223 newbie bullet question So I am hopefully going to start reloading soon, I have everything I need except the primers and bullets, but that is why I'm here. I am a complete newbie trying to figure this out and I feel confident in every aspect but bullets. So hopefully some of you more experienced reloaders can help me out. I'm loading 223 for a AR, I plan on reloading 55 grain fmj bullets with bl-c(2) powder. I have Lyman's 49th manual and for a 55 grain bullet they use a '55 grain jacketed spt.' And on hodgons website for my powder and a 55 grain bullet they use the following bullets: 55 grain bar tsx fb, 55 grain Spr sp, and a 55 grain sfire. How do I know what data to use? What is the difference between all those bullets? What makes a bullet 'jacketed'? And how do I know what bullets are of similar construction to each other? Thanks for the help!

June 12, 2013, 05:36 PM	#2
dmazur Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2007 Location: Pacific NW Posts: 1,310	Some of the reloading manuals, such as Sierra, have a section on bullets which includes diagrams of how they are constructed. The abreviations used by that manufacturer are usually listed, but may not match those used by other manufacturers. The "bar tsx fb" is most likely a Barnes TSX all-copper bullet The "Spr sp" might be Speer soft point or Spitzer soft point. The "sfire" refers to a frangible bullet The first and third entries probably have different coefficients of friction than copper and those loads shouldn't be used with copper jacketed bullets. Using lead data for jacketed bullets is a similar concern. Lead and copper don't have the same amount of friction, so the developed pressures aren't the same. A jacketed bullet is a lead bullet with a copper alloy jacket formed around it. This design permits driving the bullet to very high velocities without "leading" the bore. The general rule, as I understand it, is that bullets of the same material, weight and shape can generally be substituted. That is, a .308 150gr Sierra SP is probably very similar to a .308 150gr Hornady SP. If the material, weight, or shape differs, something is going to be different. The powder charge might be different, or the recommended COL. If blind substitutions are made, overpressure can result. The cause might be exceeding recommended COL and having a bullet jammed in the lands, or it might be exceeding a safe charge (OK for published bullet, not for yours.) To the shooter with the damaged rifle and/or trip to the hospital, there isn't any practical difference. __________________ .30-06 Springfield: 100 yrs + and still going strong

June 12, 2013, 08:32 PM	#6
dmazur Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2007 Location: Pacific NW Posts: 1,310	Load data varies because the test barrels, equipment, etc. are not standardized between manufacturers. Plated bullets have introduced an entirely new level of confusion, with some mfgrs recommending using lead data, and others stating their plating is thick enough that the (reduced) jacketed data should be used. Interesting theory that the thickness of a bullet's jacket controls expansion while it is in the barrel... __________________ .30-06 Springfield: 100 yrs + and still going strong

June 12, 2013, 08:02 PM	#3
SVTCobra306 Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2013 Posts: 434	I don't know that I would assume from one company to another with similar weights and shapes. From what I've learned, the jacket thickness alone, which you cannot measure easily, will make a difference. For example, Speer gives significantly higher load data for their 55 gr SP than Hornady does for their 55 gr SP. They are similar in size, shape, and weight.. the only real bullet difference I can imagine would be the thickness of the jacket, the thinner it is, the more it expands, the more pressure you develop. They can be a bit outdated, but I like to use Loadbooks USA books for each caliber. Especially now when finding the same components can be difficult, it's a good starting point for brands that I don't have a specific book for.

June 12, 2013, 08:26 PM	#4
Jeff2131 Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2012 Location: Spring City, PA Posts: 497	The more manuals the better. Read alot and compare. And it always helps to ask questions on this forum and also go to bullet manufacturer website and or powder manufacturer website to check the published load data there too. I have reloaded 1000's of .223 and i find that as long as the weight is the same from bullet to bullet the outcome doesnt vary much. Now if youre going for pin point accuracy, specific velocities, and trying to really fine tune your rounds as opposed to simply bulk reloading for the sake of recreational shooting then yes, id would def urge you to consider the type of bullet along with weight. But the bottom line is.....BUY MORE MANUALS AND GATHER AS MUCH INFO AS YOU POSSIBLY CAN.

June 12, 2013, 08:30 PM	#5
Jeff2131 Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2012 Location: Spring City, PA Posts: 497	....btw....imr 4320 is a great middle of the road all around good powder for .223. Its not too slow, not too fast and if you are using a perfect powder measurer, it wont leak out the sides...lol. i tried blc2 and was not happy with the overall outcome. Imr 4320 is kind of a universal powder so to speak...it can be used in alog of caliber rifles and many different weight bullets.

June 12, 2013, 09:15 PM	#7
steve4102 Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,955	Page one of Lyman 223 data list all bullets use for testing. Your 55gr SPT is a Sierra SPT, which stands for "Spitzer". You can use this data with other brands of jacketed bullets. https://www.sierrabullets.com/store/...-dia-50-gr-SPT As stated above, The BAR TSX stands for Barnes TSX which is an ALL Copper bullet. Use this data for all copper bullets like the Barnes, do not use this data for Jacketed bullets. The 55gr SPR SP, stands for Speer Spitzer. You can use this data for other Jacketed bullets as well. http://www.speer-bullets.com/ballist...ail.aspx?id=11 The 55gr Sfire stands for Sinterfire a lead free frangible bullet. Use this data only for these bullets. http://www.sinterfire.com/Default.aspx

June 12, 2013, 09:27 PM	#8
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	I'm thinking that the BL-C(2) will work just fine. One of the best groups ever shot was with BL-C(1), so don't be thinking that your powder is inferior. That said, I haven't gotten quite as good accuracy from that powder with the 40 gr Sierra Varminter than I get from H335 and the 40 gr Nosler BT, but I think that's the fault of the bullet and not the powder.

June 12, 2013, 10:33 PM	#9
jersurf101 Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2013 Location: Eastern NC Posts: 553	The lyman 49 data is pretty low compared to others for the start loads compared to other published sources in my experience. I just loaded some 55 grn .223 FMJ hornaday bullets with Benchmark. Lyman had their data 1.3 grains under Lee for the start load. I like that to be honest. I don't think the Lyman 49th will steer you wrong as long as you are looking at jacketed bullets of the correct weight and start at the minimum published data. They cycled my AR just fine.