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Old August 21, 2009, 11:54 PM   #1
Falcon5NZ
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Correct Terminology

Just point made by Double Naught Spy in the is it only here that the media attacks gun owners? thread.
Quote:
You have two types of automatic. You have auto loading and auto firing. A semi-auto firing pistol is an auto loading pistol. Same for rifles. I carry an automatic pistol everyday. It is a correct descriptor even if many gun folks don't like it because some of the public (including many gun people) confuse the terminology
Why don't people start to use correct terminology and damn the media and movies? We might educate some people and make the anti's look a bit silly for making up terms.
Call a magazine a magazine. NOT a clip.
There's no such thing as a sniper rifle. There are rifles used by military snipers though.
Automatic means (in my opinion) self-loading or self-firing
Semi Auto means self loading and Full Auto means self firing.
Assault Rifle (as defined by the media, anti's and the AWB) should really be Military Style Semi Automatic or something similiar

Any other terms that really annoy you that people use?
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Old August 22, 2009, 12:56 AM   #2
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A bullet is not a cartridge.

A caliber is not a chambering.

Some people aren't bothered by any of this.
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Old August 22, 2009, 09:17 AM   #3
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To roughly plagiarize Jeff Cooper...

The magazine goes into the weapon,
The cartridge goes into the breech.
As we are careful with our appearance,
We should be careful with our speech.
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Old August 22, 2009, 09:41 AM   #4
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There's a Chinese proverb: The first step toward wisdom is calling things by their right names.
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Old August 22, 2009, 05:06 PM   #5
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Quote:
Any other terms that really annoy you that people use?
Yea...HIGH CAPACITY MAGAZINE. What's a LOW capacity mag.?
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Old August 22, 2009, 05:31 PM   #6
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Quote:
What's a LOW capacity mag.?
Answer: Anything modified to make legal for sale in the PRK (California).
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Old August 22, 2009, 05:33 PM   #7
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Semi-automatic civilian versions of fully automatic military weapons are NOT assault rifles. The M-16 is an assault rifle, the AR-15 is certainly not.

What chaps my hide is the ubiquitous misuse of the term "arsenal", particularly by the media. An arsenal is a military facility where weapons or ammunition are MANUFACTURED. An armory is where they are stored. Neither term has anything to do with civilian firearm ownership.
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Old August 22, 2009, 06:17 PM   #8
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I guess none of it really bothers me.

By the way. I consider a hi-cap magazine anything in excess of what the gun was designed for. Example 10 rounders for a 1911, or 10 rounders for a Remington 7400.

And actually. I also consider hi-cap and low cap a good word. Low-cap means CA acceptable, Hi-cap means it's for sale exclusively to free Americans
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Old August 22, 2009, 07:43 PM   #9
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The thing about the term "high capacity magazines" is that in most laws that deal with them, the term is specifically defined for the purposes of the law. So the term "high capacity magazine" has a specific legal meaning in connection with certain laws that deal with them.
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Old August 22, 2009, 08:03 PM   #10
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"Words do not mean, people mean." - S.I Hayakawa

It has always been, and always will be.

You will note that the OP provided two distinict terms for 'self-firing'. Communications is a very challenging aspect of human behavior.
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Old August 22, 2009, 08:11 PM   #11
Frank Ettin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hook686
"Words do not mean, people mean." - S.I Hayakawa

It has always been, and always will be....
True enough. But when people use words in-artfully or inappropriately, it's difficult to know what it is those people mean.
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Old August 22, 2009, 08:20 PM   #12
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If the emotional/sociological factors associated with certain words weren't present I would still be slightly irritated at the misuse of terminology.

However, when a news anchor or politician says "assault weapon", "hi-capacity clip/mag", or "sniper rifle" images crime, death, war, and terror come to mind. When these images and thoughts are associated with (even if people unknowingly associate these images and terms) we ought to be extra-careful to mean what we say and say what we mean.
Quote:
A clip is not a magazine, a mag is not a clip;
Neither is a grip a stock, and "stock" does not mean grip.
I do not mean to nitpick, but improvement could be seen,
If we could bring ourselves to say exactly what we mean.
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Old August 22, 2009, 08:25 PM   #13
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Quote:
The thing about the term "high capacity magazines" is that in most laws that deal with them, the term is specifically defined for the purposes of the law. So the term "high capacity magazine" has a specific legal meaning in connection with certain laws that deal with them.
I agree with how one get's away from using the term "legally" but I don't agree that it makes it right.

Falcon, your concern comes up for discussion on a relatively regular basis. The conclusion I draw is there's three basic opinions:

1. People that can't stand seeing terms abused and speaks out hoping to garner change for the better in their eyes.

2. People that understand item #1 but think it's a waste of time addressing the issue to fellow 2A advocates and others. Some may believe it's fear of being accused of being a gun snob. Some may believe it isn't worth the energy.

3. People that don't really give a rat's behind since they know one really means "magazine" when they say "clip".

I, for one, fall in door #1 when contributing on this board. It's in my opinion to write with correct terms the best I reasonably can. I make mistakes just like any other. However, I take forum rules #4 pretty seriously when Rich wants his site to have the bar raised higher than anyone else out there. For me to get lazy on my posting content underminds his intent and potentially embarrasses other members.
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Old August 22, 2009, 08:48 PM   #14
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Well,I spose,to a point,
and it might matter more if is about what is public communication,and yes,I resent the subtle twists of meaning for the sake of news/propaganda.

But,.sometimes it is more fun among friends to use a different standard.

Some parts of USA a turtle hull is where the spare tire goes,and toad strangler and gully whomper describe certain weather events.

Bench resters talk about hummers.Some folks shoot charcoal.

Better not be loading six in a six shooter.

So long as we are having fun,and understand,its cool by me.I say Long Colt,too

All along the way,folks have either taken the best of civilian tech to the battle,or folks who come home from battle bring back with them the tools that serve well.

It was springfields and mausers making bolt sporters.Seems like some famous buffalo hunter frontiersman had a military trim rifle named Lucretia Borgia

Some folks today accept the black rifle as the riflemans tool,and a perfectly good sporting rifle.
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Old August 22, 2009, 08:55 PM   #15
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I believe the proper term for a:
-.40 S&W is "foh-tay"
- shoot is pop
- bullet is cap
Example: I gonna pop a cap yo [sic] wid my foh-tay!

Last edited by Shane Tuttle; August 22, 2009 at 09:23 PM. Reason: skirting the language filter
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Old August 22, 2009, 09:16 PM   #16
PT111
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Quote:
I believe the proper term for a:
-.40 S&W is "foh-tay"
- shoot is pop
- bullet is cap
Example: I gonna pop a cap yo [sic] wid my foh-tay!
A foh-tay is a Glock
A Glock is any semi-auto pistol
A foh-tay has nothing to do with caliber.

Last edited by Shane Tuttle; August 22, 2009 at 09:23 PM.
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Old August 22, 2009, 09:19 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PT111
A foh-tay is a Glock
A Glock is any semi-auto pistol
A foh-tay has nothing to do with caliber.
I believe you are right. I stand corrected.
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Old August 22, 2009, 09:41 PM   #18
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The original poster appears to be talking about two completely different things.

There is a world of difference between politically loaded buzz words ("assault rifle") and minor semantic quibbles (clip vs magazine).

I don't really think there is much we can do about the usage of "assault rifles" and "sniper rifles" in the news.

Arguing about the minor semantic quibbles doesn't seem terribly productive. Go look at the "Handgun vs pistol thread". Heck, a close friend of mine even gets upset when I use the term "handgun", as he is convinced it is a politically loaded term similar to "assault rifle".

Among my least favorite types of threads are where a "What's a decent clip for [gun x]?" question degrades into "clip vs magazine" ranting for 3 pages and the poor guy never even gets a good answer.

It just seems like a bunch of "wheel vs tire" and "engine vs motor" silliness.

There's differences, sure, but it's almost always clear what is intended, and it's not an excuse to be rude or derail a thread.

Quote:
Yea...HIGH CAPACITY MAGAZINE. What's a LOW capacity mag.?
There are often such things as low capacity magazines, but it seems what you are hinting at is the difference between a high capacity magazine and a standard capacity magazine.
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Old August 22, 2009, 09:59 PM   #19
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Quote:
You will note that the OP provided two distinict terms for 'self-firing'. Communications is a very challenging aspect of human behavior.
Quote:
Automatic means (in my opinion) self-loading or self-firing
Semi Auto means self loading and Full Auto means self firing.
All that statement by the OP means is that "automatic" includes "semi auto" and "full auto".

So yes, your point is taken. Communications is a very challenging aspect of human behavior.

That said, I don't think I agree with the "self firing" definition. You can stop the "self firing" anytime you wish by removing your finger from the trigger. You can't stop the "self loading", semi or full auto.
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Old August 23, 2009, 01:14 AM   #20
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Bud-Self firing was the best thing that can to mind when I wrote the post. If you have a better definition please tell me. That’s not meant sarcastically or as a dig.
Kozak-I understand there is a difference between media buzz words and "mag vs clip". They both still annoy me
Tuttle- I agree with you. I like to think I'm #1 as well.
Clarity is important. Everyone knows that a "clip" is a magazine. But saying "The clip is loaded from the clip" instead of the "The magazine is loaded from the clip" is just confusing. I'm not saying that we need to go around correcting people who call cartridges bullets but terminology needs to be correct or it's useless and we may as well go back to calling things thingamajiggets, doohickeys, and whatjamacallits. And buzzwords used by anti's should NEVER be used.
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Old August 23, 2009, 02:31 AM   #21
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My definition of Full auto is more than one round per trigger pull. Seems like that pretty much covers it.
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Old August 23, 2009, 07:37 AM   #22
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Quote:
I'm not saying that we need to go around correcting people who call cartridges bullets but terminology needs to be correct or it's useless and we may as well go back to calling things thingamajiggets, doohickeys, and whatjamacallits. And buzzwords used by anti's should NEVER be used.
Using the correct terminology is important that you can explain to the other person your intentions or needs. A rose by any other name is still a rose or what ever the quote is. As long as both of you know what you are talking about it doesn't matter. My forgiveness of using the correct terminology comes from working with PC support where if they can tell you that their password has expired instead of they can't get on the Internet you have made major headway.
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Old August 23, 2009, 07:42 AM   #23
Falcon5NZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skan21
My definition of Full auto is more than one round per trigger pull. Seems like that pretty much covers it.
That works.
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Last edited by Falcon5NZ; August 23, 2009 at 07:47 AM.
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Old August 23, 2009, 11:19 AM   #24
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Now, mind you, when there's a gathering of friends or the like our discussion is much more informal and my guard is down a bit.
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Old August 23, 2009, 11:25 AM   #25
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Personally, I think such things are important to people for the same reason that saving some owl or butterfly is important to people. Namely, life is so good and so easy that we have nothing more critical with which to concern ourselves. Victims of our own prosperity, so to speak.
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