Commander to Government

Andy J · February 26, 2002, 07:35 PM

Question: Is it possible to convert a Kimber Pro Carry HD to a full size 1911? What I would like to do is purchase a 5" slide, barrel, etc, and use it with the frame from my Pro Carry. I tried to put my SA slide on the Kimber frame but the fit was too tight. I would like to acomplish this so that I will be able to use both slides on the same frame which means I cannot afford to adjust the slide to frame fit by modifying the frame. I know someone will suggest just buying another 5" 1911 but the funds aren't available right now. All replies are appreciated.

Andy J

Penman · February 26, 2002, 08:11 PM

If you mount a 5" bbl and slide on that frame, the dustcover may be too short and may expose a section of the recoil spring between the end of the dustcover (the part of the frame which extends beyond the front of the trigger guard) and the bottom of the slide that holds the recoil spring plug.

Going in the other direction, I've seen a full sized frame with a Commander length slide/barrel, and the dust cover simply extended forward of the normal position on the Commander.

stans · February 27, 2002, 06:56 AM

Actually, just putting a commander slide on a government frame is a recipe for trouble. The Commander and Officers ACP slides are designed for the Commander size frame. Placing a Commander slide on a Government frame will result in the recoil spring plug tube of the slide battering the ends of the frame rails and poor ejection due to the slide impacting the frame rails prematurely.

stuckatwork · February 27, 2002, 05:00 PM

Stans,

I have seen Government bottoms with Commander tops on Frankenguns others shooters have built. They don't seem to have the problem your discribing.

I was considering putting a commander slide on a gubbermint frame. From what your saying the spring plug hits the frame. Why not just use a shortened recoil spring plug? I can't see, with a little tweaking, why it shouldn't work. Clarify, please.

stans · February 28, 2002, 06:52 AM

It is not just the spring plug, it is the plug tunnel in the slide, also the frame rails are shorter on the Commander frames. To really demonstrate the differences, take the slides of of a Government model and a Commander, set them side by side with the rear of the slides even with each other, you will see the difference. Now take the frames and make the same comparison, again, there are differences. To make a Commander slide work properly on a Government frame, you must have the spring plug tunnel of the slide shortened. If not, the frame and slide are going to be battered.

George Stringer · February 28, 2002, 08:27 AM

What Andy was asking about is the opposite. He wanted to put a full length slide on a commander size frame. But to put a shorter slide on a full size frame doesn't require any alterations of the slide. The shorter slides' tunnels are already considerably shorter than the full size. My personal carry gun is a OM slide on a full size frame. I built it about 15 years ago and have shot many thousands of rounds through it with no battering at all. George

stans · February 28, 2002, 01:03 PM

I stand corrected. I was under the impression that the frame rail difference between the Government and Commander receivers would cause a problem with battering and ejection problems. I once tried putting a Commander top end on a Government receiver and did experience ejection problems and the slide lock, once engaged, was difficult to disengage.

George Smith · March 1, 2002, 07:26 PM

stans
I stand corrected. I was under the impression that the frame rail difference between the Government and Commander receivers would cause a problem with battering and ejection problems. I once tried putting a Commander top end on a Government receiver and did experience ejection problems and the slide lock, once engaged, was difficult to disengage.

No
You would be Correct, as Would George.

The rails on a commander / Officers frame are .085 ish shorter. This allows the slide to come back further. The Comm/Officers slide has rails shorter also, By about 1/4" You had the stroke shorten by OVER 5/16 and the slide could barly go back more than the slide stop. Also you need to alter the barrel foot if you do shorten the rails. The Comm/Officers barrel foot on the front is strait up and down, the back of the guide rod is shortened also.

George's gun as many others may very well work. For a defence gun I would want the addational .085 distance and the time it provides the round to pop up. In either case the face the guide rod hits against is flat and will not batter.

geo ><>

February 26, 2002, 07:35 PM	#1
Andy J Member Join Date: December 10, 2000 Location: Sunny AZ Posts: 20	Commander to Government Question: Is it possible to convert a Kimber Pro Carry HD to a full size 1911? What I would like to do is purchase a 5" slide, barrel, etc, and use it with the frame from my Pro Carry. I tried to put my SA slide on the Kimber frame but the fit was too tight. I would like to acomplish this so that I will be able to use both slides on the same frame which means I cannot afford to adjust the slide to frame fit by modifying the frame. I know someone will suggest just buying another 5" 1911 but the funds aren't available right now. All replies are appreciated. Andy J

February 27, 2002, 05:00 PM	#4
stuckatwork Senior Member Join Date: March 3, 2000 Posts: 217	Stans, I have seen Government bottoms with Commander tops on Frankenguns others shooters have built. They don't seem to have the problem your discribing. I was considering putting a commander slide on a gubbermint frame. From what your saying the spring plug hits the frame. Why not just use a shortened recoil spring plug? I can't see, with a little tweaking, why it shouldn't work. Clarify, please. __________________ These are the words of Stuckatwork. They don't represent the views or opinions of my employers. They aren't that clever.

February 26, 2002, 08:11 PM	#2
Penman Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2002 Posts: 242	If you mount a 5" bbl and slide on that frame, the dustcover may be too short and may expose a section of the recoil spring between the end of the dustcover (the part of the frame which extends beyond the front of the trigger guard) and the bottom of the slide that holds the recoil spring plug. Going in the other direction, I've seen a full sized frame with a Commander length slide/barrel, and the dust cover simply extended forward of the normal position on the Commander.

February 27, 2002, 06:56 AM	#3
stans Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2001 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 838	Actually, just putting a commander slide on a government frame is a recipe for trouble. The Commander and Officers ACP slides are designed for the Commander size frame. Placing a Commander slide on a Government frame will result in the recoil spring plug tube of the slide battering the ends of the frame rails and poor ejection due to the slide impacting the frame rails prematurely.

February 28, 2002, 06:52 AM	#5
stans Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2001 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 838	It is not just the spring plug, it is the plug tunnel in the slide, also the frame rails are shorter on the Commander frames. To really demonstrate the differences, take the slides of of a Government model and a Commander, set them side by side with the rear of the slides even with each other, you will see the difference. Now take the frames and make the same comparison, again, there are differences. To make a Commander slide work properly on a Government frame, you must have the spring plug tunnel of the slide shortened. If not, the frame and slide are going to be battered.

February 28, 2002, 08:27 AM	#6
George Stringer Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 12, 1998 Location: Earlington KY Posts: 2,299	What Andy was asking about is the opposite. He wanted to put a full length slide on a commander size frame. But to put a shorter slide on a full size frame doesn't require any alterations of the slide. The shorter slides' tunnels are already considerably shorter than the full size. My personal carry gun is a OM slide on a full size frame. I built it about 15 years ago and have shot many thousands of rounds through it with no battering at all. George

February 28, 2002, 01:03 PM	#7
stans Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2001 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 838	I stand corrected. I was under the impression that the frame rail difference between the Government and Commander receivers would cause a problem with battering and ejection problems. I once tried putting a Commander top end on a Government receiver and did experience ejection problems and the slide lock, once engaged, was difficult to disengage.

March 1, 2002, 07:26 PM	#8
George Smith Member Join Date: June 20, 2001 Location: Doylestown Pa Posts: 22	stans I stand corrected. I was under the impression that the frame rail difference between the Government and Commander receivers would cause a problem with battering and ejection problems. I once tried putting a Commander top end on a Government receiver and did experience ejection problems and the slide lock, once engaged, was difficult to disengage. No You would be Correct, as Would George. The rails on a commander / Officers frame are .085 ish shorter. This allows the slide to come back further. The Comm/Officers slide has rails shorter also, By about 1/4" You had the stroke shorten by OVER 5/16 and the slide could barly go back more than the slide stop. Also you need to alter the barrel foot if you do shorten the rails. The Comm/Officers barrel foot on the front is strait up and down, the back of the guide rod is shortened also. George's gun as many others may very well work. For a defence gun I would want the addational .085 distance and the time it provides the round to pop up. In either case the face the guide rod hits against is flat and will not batter. geo ><>