Do you really want two of the same type rifle?

Ignition Override · October 25, 2010, 01:26 AM

Now have two Enfield #5s, one #4, Yugo Mauser and a Garand.

Was tempted to buy a nice Yugo 48 at Saturday's show, but using those open sights is much more challenging than aperture sights.

If you have a duo, trio of a given type, is it partly because you have more luck with certain sights etc?

Tamara · October 25, 2010, 06:55 AM

Well, I don't have any "duplicates" in my collection.

I'm a big advocate of duplicates in working guns, however: If it's a gun you might use for self-defense, an expensive gun class, the big target match, or a long-anticipated hunting trip, it pays to have two or three. Guns only break when they're lonely, after all.

jsmaye · October 25, 2010, 08:50 AM

It depends on what you mean by type, but I'd say yes. For instance, I have an M91/38 and two M91/30s. I still want a M44 and an M39. I have a Austrian Mannlicher Steyr - I wouldn't turn my nose up at a Hungarian one. I have a beech K-31 and want a walnut K-31.

Claddagh · October 25, 2010, 09:37 AM

I'm with Tamara here. I don't have many duplicates in my modest accumulation. Those relatively few are almost exclusively the ones I've come to prefer as primary "go-to's" for SD/survival use.

My rationale, in brief: When it comes to essential gear, when you're liable to need it most, one of something = none should anything go wrong with it. At the very least, two of something can = one under those circumstances and that could very easily make the all the difference there can be on a really bad day.

pesta2 · October 25, 2010, 10:47 AM

I have one Mosin Nagant M44. Wish I would have bought a bunch more when they were $70. I am still kick myself for not get a Mosin Nagant M38 when they were $70 too!

Cheapshooter · October 25, 2010, 05:19 PM

The only true duplicates I have are Yugo 49/56 SKS rifles. I ordered the shooter grade trying to get one of the "graffiti" rifles that some Yugo dude had carved with his family crest or other personal markings. When the BBT brought the first one, it looked like brand new, unfired, and packed full of cosmoline. I ordered another a few months later, and got a similar SKS in like new condition. I only really want one Yugo, so some day I'll clean them both up, check them out, and keep the best of the two.
My other duplicates are M95s Not exact same rifles though. One is a Budapest, the other is an Austrian so they are different rifles of the same design.

Baba Louie · October 26, 2010, 04:27 PM

I couldn't help myself back in '87/88 when the Swedes were first coming in and were so darned cheap, I had to get two M96s. Love em

Got a couple (or more) '03's, a couple War Babies, a pair of No2-MkIIIs & No4-MkIs, a couple Arisakas. Couple of K98s. A 96/11 and K31 (close buy not exact 2nds).

sigh

If only they could talk, they'd say I'm sick cause they never get out and make much noise anymore. To be fair, about half were my Dad's that I inherited, so maybe I'm only half sick.

What really makes me sick is that my kids don't really appreciate them or want them but I figure w/ 2 each, I can "will" them to son and daughter (or grandson). Let them get rid of the darned heavy old things.

gyvel · October 26, 2010, 07:29 PM

OCD: If one's good, five's better.

madcratebuilder · October 27, 2010, 07:56 AM

There are so many variations of the No4 Enfield you could own well over two dozen without duplicates. The Yugo Mausers are similar, well over a dozen variations. The Swiss K-31's, not so much, about a half dozen well cover that model.

Don P · October 27, 2010, 08:14 AM

Absolutely. I have 2 Mosin-Nagants. Each comming from the 2 arsenals in Russia. Advantage is same ammo.

jsmaye · October 27, 2010, 08:36 AM

Are milsurps (what I presume we're talking about in this thread) really your "go-to guns"?

Don P · October 27, 2010, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Are milsurps (what I presume we're talking about in this thread) really your "go-to guns"?

Yep for now. The only long guns I own are the 2 Nagants and have all the confidence in them that they can do what may be needed in a pinch.

BombthePeasants · October 27, 2010, 03:36 PM

I own 2 each of the following: M1 Garand, M1 Carbine, SA 1911 Loaded .45ACP, and Ruger 10/22. I'm familiar with the manual of arms for each type, and if one goes bellyup, I'm ready to go w/ the other. I keep the more valuable one of each type locked away in long-term storage, and the other is the "shooter". I'm really happy I've been able to do it, and I recommend everyone having their guns in twos.

P.S. I am really bummed out that I've run out of money, because I dearly want another Garand, and now that the CMP has released the Service grade Winchesters, I'm almost depressed...BOOHOO

Ignition Override · October 27, 2010, 06:17 PM

There is no "go to gun" for me, unless the Taliban or Hezbollah invade west TN.
They would not be shooting at our house from 100 yards away, standing between other houses.

Today on a business trip in Flint, MI, went into a Dunham's store for the first time, and they have some decent milsurp rifles: K-31, "RC" K-98s, Chileno Mauser (non-match) etc.
Gander Mt. has a so-so LE #4 and decent Czech VZ-24, but missing front sight guards.

My next objective is a second Garand and LE #4 (very few "non-screwed up" found near Memphis).

Tikirocker · October 28, 2010, 12:29 AM

Damn straight my Milsurps are my go to guns ... I often out shoot modern sporting rifles that use scopes using only iron sights on my 1942 No1 MkIII* Lithgow Enfield, 300 yards the last time I did that. You should see the looks on peoples faces when you keep plugging that 5 ring ... as John Wayne once said' No brag, just fact

Tiki.

jsmaye · October 28, 2010, 07:47 AM

Quote:

I often out shoot modern sporting rifles that use scopes using only iron sights on my 1942 No1 MkIII* Lithgow Enfield...

If you were able to outshoot someone's modern scoped rifle with your iron-sighted MkIII, it's probably because you're a better shooter. Not to say milsurps aren't accurate (I know they are), but to outshoot in those circumstances tells me the other person was outmatched, not the rifle.

madcratebuilder · October 28, 2010, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Are milsurps (what I presume we're talking about in this thread) really your "go-to guns"?

"go-to guns" as in SHTF? It would depend on the given situation. A city dweller would need a different gun than someone living in the high plains.

I guess if I had a "go-to gun" for SHTF it would be one of my AR's, hi cap mags and light ammo. M1A would work also, a high capacity magazine in a semi auto just has more fire power. If I had to I could do fine with a Enfield or any mil-surp bolt gun.

Most guys I know that have a "go to gun" it's an AR or AK, both mil-surps.

BombthePeasants · October 29, 2010, 08:34 AM

If the poop hits the fan, Then I'm building a catapult. That will be my go-to weapon. I'll use dogs and cats from the nearby animal shelter for ammunition. That way, I'll be environmentally sound!

Tikirocker · October 29, 2010, 09:16 AM

Quote:

If you were able to outshoot someone's modern scoped rifle with your iron-sighted MkIII, it's probably because you're a better shooter. Not to say milsurps aren't accurate (I know they are), but to outshoot in those circumstances tells me the other person was outmatched, not the rifle.

I agree, but what that really tells me is that the only difference between modern rifles and a well set up Milsurp is the nut behind the bolt ... that is my entire point. There is no reason why a Milsurp ought not to be a go to gun.

Tiki.

publius · October 29, 2010, 05:11 PM

Bombthepeasants, watched Monty Python Holy Grail lately?

Ignition Override · October 29, 2010, 05:30 PM

Tikirocker:
The guys in the US who can attend a large gun show might see an original Enfield come in the door. If we attend six shows in this area, might see one.

Here in Memphis, at shows from Southaven MS to Jackson TN almost all LEs are messed up, but to be tactful, we say sporterized.

jtb1967 · October 29, 2010, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Quote:
I often out shoot modern sporting rifles that use scopes using only iron sights on my 1942 No1 MkIII* Lithgow Enfield...

If you were able to outshoot someone's modern scoped rifle with your iron-sighted MkIII, it's probably because you're a better shooter. Not to say milsurps aren't accurate (I know they are), but to outshoot in those circumstances tells me the other person was outmatched, not the rifle.

I agree. I love old military rifles and have a large collection of them, but modern rifles are far more accurate as a general rule. Plus a number of the old rifles aren't quite they use to be 50 or more years ago due to wear, mistreatment, etc.

Tikirocker · October 29, 2010, 09:24 PM

Quote:

but modern rifles are far more accurate as a general rule

I have seen this proven wrong too many times to count ... the issue of accuracy is more to do with wear and accurizing than age or type. There are plenty of modern rifles that shoot average out of the box - all rifles can be made accurate given condition and the owners ability to accurize it.

My No1 MkIII shooting irons is no less accurate than a modern scoped rifle ... that's the point.

Tiki.

jtb1967 · October 30, 2010, 08:15 AM

"accurizing" then you're not talking factory rifles.

Production methods have gotten better with time. Factories as well as gunsmiths are able to produce more accurate rifles with modern methods than they could years ago. Take a look at average winning match results over the last 50 years and you'll see group size has shrunk significantly.

You could have a very above average Enfield or you could be shooting against people with bad rifles or guys that just can't shoot. Peep sights are great, but I'd have a hard time believing anyone can shoot the same rifle with a peep as accurate at 100 yards as they could with a good 36X scope.

TX Hunter · October 30, 2010, 02:16 PM

I could understand why a guy would want some duplicates, Especially some of the nice rifles that are basicly new, but have been stored for years in cosmo.
Those rifles will only increase in value. Not to mention, its hard to get a the same quality, and value in modern produced firearms without taking out a second morgage.

October 25, 2010, 01:26 AM	#1
Ignition Override Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2008 Location: About 20 nm from the Big Muddy Posts: 2,887	Do you really want two of the same type rifle? Now have two Enfield #5s, one #4, Yugo Mauser and a Garand. Was tempted to buy a nice Yugo 48 at Saturday's show, but using those open sights is much more challenging than aperture sights. If you have a duo, trio of a given type, is it partly because you have more luck with certain sights etc?

October 25, 2010, 06:55 AM	#2
Tamara Moderator Emeritus Join Date: March 11, 2000 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 16,002	Well, I don't have any "duplicates" in my collection. I'm a big advocate of duplicates in working guns, however: If it's a gun you might use for self-defense, an expensive gun class, the big target match, or a long-anticipated hunting trip, it pays to have two or three. Guns only break when they're lonely, after all. __________________ MOLON LABE! 2% Unobtainium, 98% Hypetanium. The Arms Room: An Online Museum.

October 25, 2010, 08:50 AM	#3
jsmaye Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Location: Amarillo, Tx Posts: 616	It depends on what you mean by type, but I'd say yes. For instance, I have an M91/38 and two M91/30s. I still want a M44 and an M39. I have a Austrian Mannlicher Steyr - I wouldn't turn my nose up at a Hungarian one. I have a beech K-31 and want a walnut K-31. __________________ No matter how big and tough you are, when a two-year-old hands you a toy phone you'll answer it.

October 25, 2010, 05:19 PM	#6
Cheapshooter Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2007 Location: Missouri Posts: 8,306	The only true duplicates I have are Yugo 49/56 SKS rifles. I ordered the shooter grade trying to get one of the "graffiti" rifles that some Yugo dude had carved with his family crest or other personal markings. When the BBT brought the first one, it looked like brand new, unfired, and packed full of cosmoline. I ordered another a few months later, and got a similar SKS in like new condition. I only really want one Yugo, so some day I'll clean them both up, check them out, and keep the best of the two. My other duplicates are M95s Not exact same rifles though. One is a Budapest, the other is an Austrian so they are different rifles of the same design. __________________ Cheapshooter's rules of gun ownership #1: NEVER SELL OR TRADE ANYTHING!

October 26, 2010, 04:27 PM	#7
Baba Louie Senior Member Join Date: September 23, 2001 Posts: 1,552	I'm Weak I couldn't help myself back in '87/88 when the Swedes were first coming in and were so darned cheap, I had to get two M96s. Love em Got a couple (or more) '03's, a couple War Babies, a pair of No2-MkIIIs & No4-MkIs, a couple Arisakas. Couple of K98s. A 96/11 and K31 (close buy not exact 2nds). sigh If only they could talk, they'd say I'm sick cause they never get out and make much noise anymore. To be fair, about half were my Dad's that I inherited, so maybe I'm only half sick. What really makes me sick is that my kids don't really appreciate them or want them but I figure w/ 2 each, I can "will" them to son and daughter (or grandson). Let them get rid of the darned heavy old things. __________________ A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government." - George Washington, January 8, 1790, First State of the Union Address

October 25, 2010, 09:37 AM	#4
Claddagh Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2009 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 313	I'm with Tamara here. I don't have many duplicates in my modest accumulation. Those relatively few are almost exclusively the ones I've come to prefer as primary "go-to's" for SD/survival use. My rationale, in brief: When it comes to essential gear, when you're liable to need it most, one of something = none should anything go wrong with it. At the very least, two of something can = one under those circumstances and that could very easily make the all the difference there can be on a really bad day. Last edited by Claddagh; October 25, 2010 at 09:46 AM.

October 25, 2010, 10:47 AM	#5
pesta2 Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 2006 Location: Fairmont, WV Posts: 1,682	I have one Mosin Nagant M44. Wish I would have bought a bunch more when they were $70. I am still kick myself for not get a Mosin Nagant M38 when they were $70 too! __________________ http://www.stevekonya.com

October 26, 2010, 07:29 PM	#8
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 7,172	OCD: If one's good, five's better.

October 27, 2010, 07:56 AM	#9
madcratebuilder Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2007 Location: Northern Orygun Posts: 4,923	There are so many variations of the No4 Enfield you could own well over two dozen without duplicates. The Yugo Mausers are similar, well over a dozen variations. The Swiss K-31's, not so much, about a half dozen well cover that model.

October 27, 2010, 08:14 AM	#10
Don P Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2005 Location: Swamp dweller Posts: 6,187	Absolutely. I have 2 Mosin-Nagants. Each comming from the 2 arsenals in Russia. Advantage is same ammo. __________________ *NRA Life Member, NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor,, USPSA & Steel Challange NROI Range Officer, ICORE Range Officer, ,MAG 40 Graduate* *As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.*

October 27, 2010, 08:36 AM	#11
jsmaye Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Location: Amarillo, Tx Posts: 616	Are milsurps (what I presume we're talking about in this thread) really your "go-to guns"? __________________ No matter how big and tough you are, when a two-year-old hands you a toy phone you'll answer it.

October 27, 2010, 03:36 PM	#13
BombthePeasants Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 351	I own 2 each of the following: M1 Garand, M1 Carbine, SA 1911 Loaded .45ACP, and Ruger 10/22. I'm familiar with the manual of arms for each type, and if one goes bellyup, I'm ready to go w/ the other. I keep the more valuable one of each type locked away in long-term storage, and the other is the "shooter". I'm really happy I've been able to do it, and I recommend everyone having their guns in twos. P.S. I am really bummed out that I've run out of money, because I dearly want another Garand, and now that the CMP has released the Service grade Winchesters, I'm almost depressed...BOOHOO

October 27, 2010, 06:17 PM	#14
Ignition Override Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2008 Location: About 20 nm from the Big Muddy Posts: 2,887	There is no "go to gun" for me, unless the Taliban or Hezbollah invade west TN. They would not be shooting at our house from 100 yards away, standing between other houses. Today on a business trip in Flint, MI, went into a Dunham's store for the first time, and they have some decent milsurp rifles: K-31, "RC" K-98s, Chileno Mauser (non-match) etc. Gander Mt. has a so-so LE #4 and decent Czech VZ-24, but missing front sight guards. My next objective is a second Garand and LE #4 (very few "non-screwed up" found near Memphis).

October 28, 2010, 12:29 AM	#15
Tikirocker Senior Member Join Date: May 11, 2007 Location: NSW, Australia Posts: 909	Damn straight my Milsurps are my go to guns ... I often out shoot modern sporting rifles that use scopes using only iron sights on my 1942 No1 MkIII* Lithgow Enfield, 300 yards the last time I did that. You should see the looks on peoples faces when you keep plugging that 5 ring ... as John Wayne once said' No brag, just fact Tiki. __________________ The Lee Enfield forums - http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewforum.php?f=27 Surplus Rifle Forums - http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/index.php

October 29, 2010, 08:34 AM	#18
BombthePeasants Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 351	If the poop hits the fan, Then I'm building a catapult. That will be my go-to weapon. I'll use dogs and cats from the nearby animal shelter for ammunition. That way, I'll be environmentally sound!

October 29, 2010, 05:11 PM	#20
publius Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2005 Location: Mississippi/Texas Posts: 2,505	Bombthepeasants, watched Monty Python Holy Grail lately? __________________ "Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress, but I repeat myself." Mark Twain

October 29, 2010, 05:30 PM	#21
Ignition Override Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2008 Location: About 20 nm from the Big Muddy Posts: 2,887	Tikirocker: The guys in the US who can attend a large gun show might see an original Enfield come in the door. If we attend six shows in this area, might see one. Here in Memphis, at shows from Southaven MS to Jackson TN almost all LEs are messed up, but to be tactful, we say sporterized. Last edited by Ignition Override; October 30, 2010 at 01:00 AM.

October 30, 2010, 08:15 AM	#24
jtb1967 Junior member Join Date: September 29, 2004 Location: WV Posts: 454	"accurizing" then you're not talking factory rifles. Production methods have gotten better with time. Factories as well as gunsmiths are able to produce more accurate rifles with modern methods than they could years ago. Take a look at average winning match results over the last 50 years and you'll see group size has shrunk significantly. You could have a very above average Enfield or you could be shooting against people with bad rifles or guys that just can't shoot. Peep sights are great, but I'd have a hard time believing anyone can shoot the same rifle with a peep as accurate at 100 yards as they could with a good 36X scope.

October 30, 2010, 02:16 PM	#25
TX Hunter Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2010 Location: East Texas USA Posts: 1,805	I could understand why a guy would want some duplicates, Especially some of the nice rifles that are basicly new, but have been stored for years in cosmo. Those rifles will only increase in value. Not to mention, its hard to get a the same quality, and value in modern produced firearms without taking out a second morgage.