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June 7, 2013, 11:09 AM | #26 |
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Well, search away, Feds .......
I think we all ought to answer our Verizon phones with, "HelloJihadDetonatorBombPlotCellConstitutionTeaParty...." ....just to help them justify the further breakdown of the Country. |
June 7, 2013, 11:21 AM | #27 | |
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Can you hear me now?
"Yes" - NSA Quote:
Is who you call and when you call them "private" information if AT&T and Verizon and 1 million of their most trusted employees are aware of it? I dislike the size and scope of the modern state, but how can one be sufficiently surprised by this so that he is actually outraged? The federal government regulates which telecom company can buy another, how much you pay your employees, whether and what kind of medical insurance you provide, compels an annual and rather detailed accounting of all of your financial affairs along with potential criminal penalties for failure to report, and perhaps most pertinent here, does not permit you to purchase a new firearm, the possession of which is explicitly constitutionally protected, unless you complete and sign an interview form and leave it with a government licensee. What is out of character for that same government to note your use of a highly regulated communication apparatus?
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http://www.npboards.com/index.php Last edited by zukiphile; June 7, 2013 at 11:28 AM. |
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June 7, 2013, 11:46 AM | #28 | ||
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Quote:
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JihadDetonatorBombPlotConstitutionTEAParty! That'll get their datamining engines spun up! |
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June 7, 2013, 03:34 PM | #29 | |
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Obvious violation of civil rights. |
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June 7, 2013, 04:18 PM | #30 |
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I have to admit to being equally disturbed by the federal government's response to the revelation of the program: "it's just the renewal of a program we've had since 2006." That's another way of saying "It's OK, because we've been doing it for a while."
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June 7, 2013, 04:54 PM | #31 | |
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This is as fundamental as it gets and, from what I can tell, no one cares. At least in any numbers that matter.
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June 7, 2013, 05:44 PM | #32 | |
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Few people cared when the so called "patriot act" was passed and signed into law. Nearly all the conservatives supported it. Those of us who spoke out against the degradation of our Constitutional rights were called "traitors" and worse. Fewer yet cared when FISA became law. Almost no one noticed when these laws were extended and strenghtened. Folks are afraid and fear sells. This stuff will only get worse with each new administration. |
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June 7, 2013, 08:50 PM | #33 |
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I think the sheer scope of the information gathering is truly frightening. The FISA Court ordered Verizon to release call metadata (phone numbers, trunk lines, duration, etc.) on calls between the U.S. and abroad and all calls wholly in the United States, including local calls. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/inte...ta-court-order. This seems to make a mockery out of even the minimal protection that FISA might have because this court order makes it unnecessary to obtain any other court orders involving Verizon.
But wait, it's not just Verizon but also ATT and Sprint/Nextel according to reports from the Wall Street Journal. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...289298922.html. There is at least an indication that some members of the FISA court have found such orders to be unconstitutional -- at least we think so. The Department of Justice is fighting the release of the opinion which is being sought by the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF). http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...-court-opinion. Yes, I know its "Mother Jones" but you can get it a bit more fragmented manner straight from www.eff.org. EFF has been around for a number of years.Read their opinion on why privacy of metadata is important. But wait, THERE'S MORE. The U.S.P.S. scans the front and back of each item of mail they handle and evidently store it for at least a short time period. A report at The Smoking Gun website indicates federal officials utilized this in tracking down the woman who mailed ricin laced letters recently. http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documen...letters-687435. The affidavit in support of a criminal complaint is here -- http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documen...letters-687435. Proud to say that one of my U.S. Senators, Rand Paul, actively worked against the last renewal of the Patriot Act and the FISA courts. http://www.theatlanticwire.com/polit...iot-act/38194/. Unfortunately, my other Senator (Mitch McConnell) did not. |
June 7, 2013, 08:55 PM | #34 |
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I don't believe we have a right to privacy, or atleast thats what my old civics teacher used to tell me. Just speak in pig latin on your cell phone, problem solved.
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June 8, 2013, 12:49 PM | #35 |
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This is an example of how a moral panic (we must do something to save even one life) operates.
We see three currently running in the USA. 1. The Patriot Act , 9/11 fallout. Lindsay Graham has nothing to hide so keep track of every phone, internet action. 2. The rush for stupid gun control laws that would have no effect, or the more draconian bans - that would have no effect. 3. The stigmatizing and forced reporting of people seeking mental health treatment. All are justified to save 'one life'. Liberty means that you take some risks to preserve freedoms. The comment that they don't know names is so stupid as to be amazing. Or that the info is only about terror threats. Once the data base exists - one can come up with numerous abuses. Given the IRS mess, do you think that a President (of either party) would not use it for evil, blackmail, embarrassment, political advantage? The efficacious use of such a program is doubtful (despite the hints that it caught an unknown number of evil doers). The Boston bombers were highlighted to the government and they did nothing with the info. That gives me confidence in their acumen.
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June 8, 2013, 01:32 PM | #36 |
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I generally have no use for Rush Limbaugh, but my dad sent me a link to a transcript on this topic that is a very good read. The sound bite from Rep. Maxine Waters is very telling, in this context:
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/20..._a_coup_d_etat |
June 8, 2013, 09:07 PM | #37 |
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The quotation from Maxine Waters is taken completely out of context. She and Mr. Martin are discussing the political concerns of minorities, and whether/how President Obama will address them in his second term. The "database" referred to is the one maintained by Organizing for America, the principal 501(4)(c) that supports Mr. Obama. Rep. Waters' point is that no matter who is the Democratic nominee for president in 2016, he or she will have to reckon with the interests represented by that database, which is composed of people who contributed to that organization.
The conversation has nothing whatever to do with intelligence-gathering by any federal agency. The transcript of the original interview is here. Typical Limbaugh.
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June 9, 2013, 12:12 AM | #38 | |
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If gov't wants to make someone into a criminal don't tell me they can't, or even that they won't, retrieve info from Echelon records to use against us. What kind of morons do we live amongst that would ignore history so thoroughly that these things do not make them shudder. The easiest society to establish and operate a conspiracy within is the one with ten thousand conspiracy theories rampant within at any given moment.
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June 9, 2013, 02:16 PM | #39 |
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Vanya,
This will be yet another reason why I generally have no use for Limbaugh. Thanks for the correction. |
June 9, 2013, 03:04 PM | #40 |
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It's amazing, what you can find if you fact-check his statements... that could be a whole cottage industry if only there were money in it.
I'd like to think he's not as influential as he used to be, but...
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June 9, 2013, 03:44 PM | #41 | |
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June 9, 2013, 04:08 PM | #42 |
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Good point. And they do it pretty well. But "the all Rush Limbaugh, all the time" fact-check site would still have its hands full...
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June 10, 2013, 07:46 AM | #43 |
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Phone conversation
Can they listen in or record all conversation one makes with Verizon? I been a customer for 4 years now. Are all my contacts and conversations being listened to?
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June 10, 2013, 09:07 AM | #44 | |
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June 10, 2013, 10:58 AM | #45 |
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There are two different projects being run by NSA. There is this particular project, which is to accumulate metadata on EVERY call (and presumably text communications as well) in or out of the US, and apparently including not just Verizon but also the other backbone carriers as well.
Then there is a project called PRISM, which predates the above effort. Little is known for certain about it other than it (apparently) generates keyword searches against the actual content of communications (apparently both text and voice communications). I believe this is done in real time, and am not certain whether it is also done against archived content. PRISM has, apparently, been around since 2006 (possibly prior to that), and it's unclear to me the breadth and depth of the monitoring which has been done and how much has been done independently of FISA authorization. |
June 10, 2013, 11:08 AM | #46 | |
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June 10, 2013, 11:22 AM | #47 | |
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June 10, 2013, 12:39 PM | #48 |
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You're right -- that does now seem to be what they're doing. It's all the more outrageous given that by law, the NSA is -- at least in theory -- restricted to monitoring foreign communications. They have justified retaining data collected within the US on the grounds that it may be necessary "as background" to understand the context or patterns of the foreign communications data they collect. That appears to be the rationale in this case: they need to analyze everything in order to find patterns that deviate from the norm.
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June 10, 2013, 03:26 PM | #49 | |
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What is normal for me to make versus another American? What if I suddenly have a new business venture of meet someone from out of country? I wont let anyone tell me what is NORMAL for me.
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June 10, 2013, 07:24 PM | #50 |
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Dumping Google - but where to go?
I'm going to close my Gmail accounts and do all that I can to disassociate myself from Google. To that end,- where would be a good place to take my accounts and business?
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"When the Going gets Weird the Weird Turn Pro" Hunter S. Thompson Last edited by LewSchiller; June 10, 2013 at 09:13 PM. |
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