Somewhere between 44 Special and 44 Magnum

DakTo · July 12, 2006, 09:08 PM

I will probably confuse every reader with what I am asking but here goes. I am looking for something in between the top end 44 Special and full house 44 Magnum. Right now I am reloading a Cowboy Action 44 magnum load using 5.9 grains of Titegroup with a 215 grain LWC. This was the only bullet available locally. This is pleasant and mild but I would like something with a bit more authority. I ordered some 240 grain Hornady LWCHP and 240 grain HP/XTP. From what I have read you should not exceed a 1000 fps with lead projectiles. I also read that jacketed bullets meet more resistance, thus requiring a bit more powder.

According to the Hodgon data I can use anything from 4.7-6.2 grains of Titegroup with a 240 grain LWC. On the high side it produces 18,400 C.U.P. I do not like to go to the high side of any load.

Next 10.0 grains of Titegroup and a 240 grain XTP produces 37,000 C.U.P. I realize this is the top end, so I should start at 10% less and work up to this. But this would still exceed 30,000 C.U.P.

Is there a way to use the 240 grain XTP, safely and yet have the effectiveness of a hollow point, without this much recoil? Or should just shoot lead in the magnum and revert to a jacketed 200 grain 44 Special for a business purpose HP?

Any thoughts on this subject will be appreciated. Thank you for your experience and advice.

skeet47 · July 12, 2006, 09:24 PM

If you uyse a hard cast bullet you can run them to 1200FPS with no problems.Try a slower burning powder such as Alliant 2400

ammo.crafter · July 12, 2006, 09:25 PM

Get a .41 mag!

Bullet94 · July 12, 2006, 09:31 PM

I believe the XTP’s are more of a hunting bullet. I use Speer Gold Dots. Speer says their bullets are bonded core. To me there plated heavily. Kind of in between lead and jacketed. Check out this link –

http://www.speer-bullets.com/default.asp?s1=5&s2=15

click on - 44 Special and 44 Magnum with 200 gr GDHP

FRANK1669 · July 12, 2006, 09:40 PM

I am by no means an expert my but in my loads heavy bullets at faster velocity produce more recoil than lighter bullets at slower speed in my .44 for target practice I use 240 grain lead with 4.7 grains of IMR 700x a real pleasure to shoot light recoil etc, My hunting loads are 300 grain JHP with 17,2 grains of accurate #9 these kick alot. But if you find a good "hot" load with lo recoil let me know please

DakTo · July 13, 2006, 06:07 AM

Bullet94... thank you, that's exactly what i was looking for

Now i wouldn't mind having a 41 but they're cost prohibitive around here. As a matter of fact the concept of the 41 is what got me looking at larger bore pistols. I now feel that a reloader, with knowledge, research, powder and bullet selection, will not suffer but most likely benefit using the 44 mag. This in not to start a flame war. BTW the 215 grain LWC with Titegroup is very accurate, with extremly light recoil and listed on the Hodgon website.

kingudaroad · July 13, 2006, 05:38 PM

I load the 210 gr gold dot hp with 11.5 gr of unique for my practice load. Very accurate and a pleasure to shoot. Not a cowboy load, but not at all overpowering.

azredhawk44 · July 13, 2006, 07:32 PM

I routinely run 240gr LSWC hardcast bulk bullets up to 9.0-9.5gr of Titegroup. Max published load is 10.0gr. I don't get any fouling in my redhawk. The max you quoted was from the cowboy only section which is a bit prudish, IMO. Even full powered titegroup loads are nothing compared to an H110/Win296 load.

And lets face it, you didn't buy a 44mag to shoot loads equal to light 38specials. At least, I didn't.

I even push the same bullets with H110 when I am feeling...adventurous. Leading is there a little bit, but not bad. Comes out quickly.

Again, there is a mountain of felt recoil difference between 9.0gr of Titegroup and 24.0gr of H110. Try the titegroup load with the 240gr bullets you ordered. You'll like.

maxwayne · July 13, 2006, 09:34 PM

Try 7 or 8 grains of Unique behind your lead bullet.

Harley Quinn · July 13, 2006, 11:08 PM

24 grains of 2400 with a 240 bullet. It has to work, numerically it can't be beat.

HQ

DakTo · July 14, 2006, 02:36 PM

I went out this morning and shot the 240 LWC up to 6.2 grains of Titegroup. This was the Cowboy load maximum. You were right until 5.9 grains of powder the loads were like bunny farts. I'm looking forward to more powder. I also think i have fairly a soft load for plate shooting. Being able to stay with only two bullet weights makes it easier to stockpile and very little adjusting on the Dillon when i'm ready to use it.

OJ · July 14, 2006, 03:28 PM

UMC and others sell what they call "medium velocity" 44 mag ammo which sounds like what you are looking for.

**Unclenick** · July 14, 2006, 10:22 PM

DakTo,

You didn't state what barrel length you have, but it will take about 12.5 grains of 2400 to get to the speed you want in a 7.5 inch barrel. The problem is that powder is really best suited to full magnum loads and at the reduced pressures of a 1000 fps underloading, only 70% will burn while the bullet is in the barrel. This means you can expect some powder residue to be left behind. I've read a couple of S&W owner's complaints about 2400 residue from low pressure target loads jamming their guns in 50 rounds or so. I've personally seen a lot of the little yellow waxy looking granules it leaves in a .44 Special, where SAMMI maximum is only 15,500 PSI. So 2400 is not my first choice for a target load, though the pressure is very modest at about 12,000 PSI.

The next thought is to try Trail Boss in about 7.3 grains (max load - starting load 6.0 grains). According to the manual, it will produce about 21,000 PSI pressure and the same velocity. Because it is a newer powder from the same Australian company that makes Hodgdon's extreme series of powders (Hodgdon now owns IMR), it is likely to be cleaner burning, but I don't know without trying. I just bought a bottle, but haven't tried it yet. It certainly appears to lack the heavy dose of graphite that is part of the soot problem with older flake powders like Bullseye and Unique.

Another possibilty is about 6.7 grains of Hodgdon Universal Clays (not to be confused with just plain "Clays", which is a much faster powder). This will burn 100% in the tube and generates about 17,500 PSI.

Incidentally, 17,500 or even 21,000 or so PSI is nothing to be concerned about in a gun chambered for the .44 Magnum. The maximum SAMMI pressure for the .44 magnum is about 36,000 PSI, so these are well under maximum safe pressure. It just isn't suitable in the .44 Special.

Nick

DakTo · July 15, 2006, 11:18 AM

Nick, thanks for the info. I am shooting a Ruger Redhawk with a 7 1/2 barrel. Have you ever had a firearm that called your name and asked you to take it home?

I've tried Trailboss and like it but i'm saving it for my 30 30 with cast bullets. Trailboss is also fine in pistol, as it fills the case, but the cost per round has me looking elswhere.

Your suggestion of Universal Clays sounds very promising. The wife and I are going to the city today and a pound of Universal Clays is on the shopping list. My powder shelf is growing longer and longer. It is nice to look up and see all those cans, canisters, and jugs. I know I really have a hobby.

Thanks again,

Loy M

July 12, 2006, 09:08 PM	#1
DakTo Member Join Date: June 11, 2000 Location: Alabama Posts: 48	Somewhere between 44 Special and 44 Magnum I will probably confuse every reader with what I am asking but here goes. I am looking for something in between the top end 44 Special and full house 44 Magnum. Right now I am reloading a Cowboy Action 44 magnum load using 5.9 grains of Titegroup with a 215 grain LWC. This was the only bullet available locally. This is pleasant and mild but I would like something with a bit more authority. I ordered some 240 grain Hornady LWCHP and 240 grain HP/XTP. From what I have read you should not exceed a 1000 fps with lead projectiles. I also read that jacketed bullets meet more resistance, thus requiring a bit more powder. According to the Hodgon data I can use anything from 4.7-6.2 grains of Titegroup with a 240 grain LWC. On the high side it produces 18,400 C.U.P. I do not like to go to the high side of any load. Next 10.0 grains of Titegroup and a 240 grain XTP produces 37,000 C.U.P. I realize this is the top end, so I should start at 10% less and work up to this. But this would still exceed 30,000 C.U.P. Is there a way to use the 240 grain XTP, safely and yet have the effectiveness of a hollow point, without this much recoil? Or should just shoot lead in the magnum and revert to a jacketed 200 grain 44 Special for a business purpose HP? Any thoughts on this subject will be appreciated. Thank you for your experience and advice.

July 12, 2006, 09:24 PM	#2
skeet47 Member Join Date: November 2, 2005 Posts: 50	44s If you uyse a hard cast bullet you can run them to 1200FPS with no problems.Try a slower burning powder such as Alliant 2400

July 12, 2006, 09:25 PM	#3
ammo.crafter Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2006 Location: The Keystone State Posts: 1,970	Get a .41 mag! __________________ "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading". --Thomas Jefferson

July 12, 2006, 09:31 PM	#4
Bullet94 Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2004 Location: Kansas Posts: 723	I believe the XTP’s are more of a hunting bullet. I use Speer Gold Dots. Speer says their bullets are bonded core. To me there plated heavily. Kind of in between lead and jacketed. Check out this link – http://www.speer-bullets.com/default.asp?s1=5&s2=15 click on - 44 Special and 44 Magnum with 200 gr GDHP __________________ PRO-SECOND AMENDMENT - Live Free or Die

July 12, 2006, 09:40 PM	#5
FRANK1669 Senior Member Join Date: July 4, 2006 Posts: 124	I am by no means an expert my but in my loads heavy bullets at faster velocity produce more recoil than lighter bullets at slower speed in my .44 for target practice I use 240 grain lead with 4.7 grains of IMR 700x a real pleasure to shoot light recoil etc, My hunting loads are 300 grain JHP with 17,2 grains of accurate #9 these kick alot. But if you find a good "hot" load with lo recoil let me know please __________________ It is better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6

July 13, 2006, 06:07 AM	#6
DakTo Member Join Date: June 11, 2000 Location: Alabama Posts: 48	Bullet94... thank you, that's exactly what i was looking for Now i wouldn't mind having a 41 but they're cost prohibitive around here. As a matter of fact the concept of the 41 is what got me looking at larger bore pistols. I now feel that a reloader, with knowledge, research, powder and bullet selection, will not suffer but most likely benefit using the 44 mag. This in not to start a flame war. BTW the 215 grain LWC with Titegroup is very accurate, with extremly light recoil and listed on the Hodgon website.

July 13, 2006, 05:38 PM	#7
kingudaroad Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2005 Location: austin Posts: 735	I load the 210 gr gold dot hp with 11.5 gr of unique for my practice load. Very accurate and a pleasure to shoot. Not a cowboy load, but not at all overpowering.

July 13, 2006, 07:32 PM	#8
azredhawk44 Junior member Join Date: September 28, 2005 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 6,465	I routinely run 240gr LSWC hardcast bulk bullets up to 9.0-9.5gr of Titegroup. Max published load is 10.0gr. I don't get any fouling in my redhawk. The max you quoted was from the cowboy only section which is a bit prudish, IMO. Even full powered titegroup loads are nothing compared to an H110/Win296 load. And lets face it, you didn't buy a 44mag to shoot loads equal to light 38specials. At least, I didn't. I even push the same bullets with H110 when I am feeling...adventurous. Leading is there a little bit, but not bad. Comes out quickly. Again, there is a mountain of felt recoil difference between 9.0gr of Titegroup and 24.0gr of H110. Try the titegroup load with the 240gr bullets you ordered. You'll like.

July 13, 2006, 09:34 PM	#9
maxwayne Senior Member Join Date: March 10, 2001 Posts: 402	Try 7 or 8 grains of Unique behind your lead bullet.

July 13, 2006, 11:08 PM	#10
Harley Quinn Junior member Join Date: August 30, 2005 Location: State of KALI Posts: 1,531	DakTo 24 grains of 2400 with a 240 bullet. It has to work, numerically it can't be beat. HQ

July 14, 2006, 02:36 PM	#11
DakTo Member Join Date: June 11, 2000 Location: Alabama Posts: 48	I went out this morning and shot the 240 LWC up to 6.2 grains of Titegroup. This was the Cowboy load maximum. You were right until 5.9 grains of powder the loads were like bunny farts. I'm looking forward to more powder. I also think i have fairly a soft load for plate shooting. Being able to stay with only two bullet weights makes it easier to stockpile and very little adjusting on the Dillon when i'm ready to use it.

July 14, 2006, 03:28 PM	#12
OJ Senior Member Join Date: December 25, 1998 Location: COLORADO SPRINGS, CO, USA Posts: 1,570	UMC and others sell what they call "medium velocity" 44 mag ammo which sounds like what you are looking for. __________________ OJ - SEMPER FI - DUTY, HONOR, COUNTRY NRA ENDOWMENT LIFE MEMBER

July 14, 2006, 10:22 PM	#13
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	DakTo, You didn't state what barrel length you have, but it will take about 12.5 grains of 2400 to get to the speed you want in a 7.5 inch barrel. The problem is that powder is really best suited to full magnum loads and at the reduced pressures of a 1000 fps underloading, only 70% will burn while the bullet is in the barrel. This means you can expect some powder residue to be left behind. I've read a couple of S&W owner's complaints about 2400 residue from low pressure target loads jamming their guns in 50 rounds or so. I've personally seen a lot of the little yellow waxy looking granules it leaves in a .44 Special, where SAMMI maximum is only 15,500 PSI. So 2400 is not my first choice for a target load, though the pressure is very modest at about 12,000 PSI. The next thought is to try Trail Boss in about 7.3 grains (max load - starting load 6.0 grains). According to the manual, it will produce about 21,000 PSI pressure and the same velocity. Because it is a newer powder from the same Australian company that makes Hodgdon's extreme series of powders (Hodgdon now owns IMR), it is likely to be cleaner burning, but I don't know without trying. I just bought a bottle, but haven't tried it yet. It certainly appears to lack the heavy dose of graphite that is part of the soot problem with older flake powders like Bullseye and Unique. Another possibilty is about 6.7 grains of Hodgdon Universal Clays (not to be confused with just plain "Clays", which is a much faster powder). This will burn 100% in the tube and generates about 17,500 PSI. Incidentally, 17,500 or even 21,000 or so PSI is nothing to be concerned about in a gun chambered for the .44 Magnum. The maximum SAMMI pressure for the .44 magnum is about 36,000 PSI, so these are well under maximum safe pressure. It just isn't suitable in the .44 Special. Nick __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle Last edited by Unclenick; July 15, 2006 at 10:07 AM.

July 15, 2006, 11:18 AM	#14
DakTo Member Join Date: June 11, 2000 Location: Alabama Posts: 48	Nick, thanks for the info. I am shooting a Ruger Redhawk with a 7 1/2 barrel. Have you ever had a firearm that called your name and asked you to take it home? I've tried Trailboss and like it but i'm saving it for my 30 30 with cast bullets. Trailboss is also fine in pistol, as it fills the case, but the cost per round has me looking elswhere. Your suggestion of Universal Clays sounds very promising. The wife and I are going to the city today and a pound of Universal Clays is on the shopping list. My powder shelf is growing longer and longer. It is nice to look up and see all those cans, canisters, and jugs. I know I really have a hobby. Thanks again, Loy M