500 yd shots more common these days

[Art Eatman]

zeisloft, for me it's one of those "been doin' it a long time" things. I learned the trajectory of my pet load way, way back. That's why I tell the story on myself of my nine-shot, one-hit kill. I goofed on the distance.

So, I dunno. I've just never had any problem hitting whatever's out there, as long as I knew how far, and figured the wind okay. On a really windy day and any distance beyond some 200 yards or so, and I'll pass the shot. If it's pretty much an unknown way-over-yonder distance, I'll pass the shot.

I'm fortunate to live where I can go out in the back-country anytime and shoot at most anything. I'm talking canyon country where there's nobody around for miles and miles. I've stopped occasionally and used up a box or two of ammo on rocks at various distances, just to see what I could do. So far, so good.

Art

[zeisloft]

Art, I'm doing the same stuff some 500odd miles north of you on Palo Duro Canyon. It sure is tuff to get cold bore hits on rocks at 1500yds-1 mi. But it sure is fun when everything works. Wind swirls and thermal rised on a midday canyon wall are the best humbler I have found.
~z

[Foxman]

+1 on that Art Eatman
I,m lucky too, I have places where I can put targets out as far as I want. Ive made a portable bench and just set them out one after the other, like 100, 200,300, etc and see wher it goes for any zero setting, check how many clicks for the increase I want ( means you have to do a real job on getting scope/reticle horizontal with the action though). I was always taught by my big brother and uncle " hold on Hair not Fresh Air"! and it works for me. Ive said on another thread though that creepin in close is the real rush in hunting, just not always possible. Red deer in the Scottish Highlands are in open hill country no trees or bushes, 2,3,400 yds is often the only shot your ever going to get. As Art says familiarity with your rifle and loads and practice.

[mdbuckle]

No 500yd shots for me. I took a moose with a 30-06 at 350yds. That is the longest I will ever shoot! Moose are very big targets though... I can't even imagine shooting a deer at 300yds! Aweful small target to put a bullet in...if you can see it that is...

[kidvillain41300]

As a competition shooter most of the stories you hear about 500yd shots are total BS..........most people have no clue how far 500yds really is. I'll give you a great example, setup a 10footx10foot target out at 500yds and see if you even hit the target, you'd be surprised. So many factors come into play at that range most shooters are just average just cant make it work. Yeah if you got a big jacked up scope you gotta better chance, but with factors such as wind, ballistic coefficients, bullet drop,etc, you have to really do your homework to make a shot like that, A) hit your target B) make the kill, not just injure the animal and C) do it consistantly........so if you can spot lets say an elk at 500yds, take the shot and make the kill, then I'm impressed......most wont even hit the animal!!!

[Scorch]

I'll agree up to a point. The magnum effect and BDC scopes make people think they can do it simply because the BDC on their $700 scope says they can. Rifles are a lot better than they were 20 years ago, scopes are a lot better than 20 years ago, marketing makes people think magnum cartridges shoot as flat as a laser, and so people think they can do it. But the weak link in the chain is still the shooter.

That said, I have seen some bona fide 500 yard shots. I wouldn't have taken the shot, but the other guys did.

If you put up a standard 5' x 5' target on a 500 meter range, people look at it and think it is a lot further than it is. Most people have no idea how big a deer really is (I had a guy ask me one time if there were any deer bigger than the 300 pounder I had hanging. I told him if there were, he should go find them and shoot them). Wind can have a huge effect. Mirage. Dust. Not knowing the trajectory of your particular cartridge. Uphill. Downhill. You name it, range estimation in the field is difficult if you have not done a bunch of it.

I have seen people shoot right over the backs of game because they thought the animal was "way over there", so they gave it a few inches of elevation. More like a few feet! I had a guy once point to a phone pole about a mile away and tell me he had shot an antelope about that far away with his 30-40 Krag. Although I am usually tolerant of the 500 yard claims, I had to call BS on that one and tell him why. He argued with me until I pointed out that phone poles are usually about 100 yards apart, and there were 18 poles between us and the pole he pointed out. So much for range estimation.

[Zak Smith]

Let me approach this from a different angle.

As a preface, here is my hunting experience--

I grew up hunting deer in Wisconsin. The longest shot I know of occuring on our land there was about 150 yards. The last two deer I took were at 7 and 30 yards.

Now, I live out in the West where we shoot to 1000 yards at least a couple times per month, and as far as 1500 regularly, in both recreational and "match" conditions.

For anyone who practices and competes shooting at 6-12" steel plates from 200 - 1000 yards, shooting a 10" square at 500 yards is pretty much a "gimme" target, even in nominal wind conditions, as long as he's in a stable shooting position.

To make hits on small/practical targets at long distance, there are a number of things that have to come together, but it is not impossible as some would have us believe. I have taken new shooters who have never shot a bolt gun before, and have them making hits on MOA targets at 1000 yards in under a half an hour. Of course, I have done all the "homework" in this case... which is really the crux of the matter.

Now with regard to hunting, let's look at how most people set up their hunting rigs: sporter rifle in 308 up to some big mega-magnum, simple duplex reticle scope, and a zero to give them some reasonable point-blank range.

This is pretty much totally opposed to how people who make first-round hits at UKD targets to 1000 yards do it. They use instruments and skill to range targets, they have carefully computed drop and wind tables, they know how their loads behave in different atmospheric conditions, and they can precisely adjust the elevation and windage applied to their sighting system.

I don't think anyone in this thread has the data to support if it's more common or not than it used to be.

Certainly today there is more information and technology available to the average rifle shooter that can enable him to make regular hits at 500 yards, than there was 25 years ago.

-z

[Art Eatman]

In the not-quite seven years I've been at TFL and at THR, I gay-rawn-dang-tee you that the majority of all posts where distances to deer or elk were concerned, the vast majority of all shots was inside 200 yards.

That's not to say more folks don't try 500 yards, nowadays, but IMO they're still a distinct minority.

FWIW,

Art

[Mannlicher]

I say the number of long range shots these days is due as much to the lack of woods skill as to the new technology. Most hunters these days just do not spend enough time in the woods to know hone their stalking and tracking skills. I have never had to shoot anything past 250 yards, and I only do that when stand hunting across a peanut hay field.

[Art Eatman]

True, Mannlicher, but I'd bet a lot of "500-yard" shots are a lot like Scorch's telephone pole example.

A guy brings a deer in: "He was 500 yards off!"

"Oh, where'd you hold, on him?"

"Aw, right on his back."

(Bullet hole just below the spine.)

"Hey, that's a flat-shooting rifle you have there!"

Art

[Harley Quinn]

Or luck and BS. I would rather have to run three miles in the hot sun with my gun at port arms, then kill an elk at that distance and haul it back.

Maybe all they are after is the antlers? Or be like the indians, cut it up and dry it in place, an have plenty of jerky.

A nice cape would weigh a lot.

HQ

[Lycanthrope]

I've been hunting old strip mines in PA for 25 years and long shots are pretty common. Since I hunt the same long fields and hillsides year after year, I have the yardages memorized (I laser everything and sometimes post markers on places I'm unfamiliar with). With better optics and target knobs you just dial it up and hold dead on. I've been shooting my 7STW since '88 so those clicks of adjustment are also memorized. At 3400fps the arc isn't hard to adjust for and I use a lot of magnification (40x). Since the advent of the point restrictions in PA, a lot of scope is mandatory in field work.

My limit is about 600 normally and windy conditions will bring that in to 300 in a hurry, but precision shots aren't that hard if you have a consistent load/rifle and you can range.....which, in turn, takes a lot of practice.

Generally though, in calm conditions with that rifle anything inside 400 is a freebie.

[Art Eatman]

"Proper Planning and Practice Produces Prime Performance."

, Art

[youp]

It seems to me that there is a great deal of difference in the shooting of a target at 500 yds with a modern magnum or a 300 yards with a ML and the shooting of a game animal at that range. I am fully aware that all hunters capable of a 500 yarder have ice water for blood and will not have any extra adrenaline messing with pulse or breathing rate. But you need to tell me who holds the deer so it will not take a step in the half second or more that it takes for the bullet to get there. I am sure that you know one step will mean the difference between a heart/lung and a stomach/intestine hit. I hear alot about the successful kills, buy no one own claims a wounded and lost animal. In my not so humble opinion you should do better than this.

[Lycanthrope]

Long rane shooting isn't unethical. It just takes some planning and restraint.

.5 seconds........

When I hunt with a muzzleloader and a deer is facing me how long is the difference from the flash in the pan to the bullet strike at 100 yards? About that much, I'd wager. No one questions the ethics of that.......

What about the deer I see flinch at the sound of a bow string? Not much difference IMHO.

If you are going to define "better than that" then please quantify what is an ethical shot and under what conditions.

[youp]

Ah yes, ethics. The philisophy of ethics generally prove there are no firm answers, just hard questions.

By the nature of primitive hunting systems, bows and flintlocks, increase the level of difficulty involved in making a humane kill. Long range gunning accomplishes the same thing. It would logically follow that would also increase the occurance of less than lethally hit animals escaping.

I cannot dictate ethics to you or anyone else. Let me leave you with a few questions. How long do you search for a wounded animal? Does wounding an animal haunt you? If you were hunting in South Africa and that animal had a 2000 dollar price on it would you shoot at 500 yards, knowing a lost animal would cost you two grand? If you were hunting in Southern Michigan and only allowed one shot on this farm, would you take that 250 yard shot with your 12 gage slug gun?

[dfaugh]

I'm sorry but taking a 500 yrd shot under absolutely, positively the PERFECT conditions is asking, at best for a wounded animal. I suspect 98% of the people that claim to make 400-500 yrd. shots are exagerating or misjudging the distance, by a WIDE margin.

With an accurate gun I can shoot 6-8" groups at 500 yards..But that's from a bench rest, with no wind, and no time limit. But, I know that in the field, even with a decent rest, and hopefully no wind, those groups are gonna open signifcantly. I can't imagine trying a shot over 250-300 yrds. under most field conditions, and usually less than that.

[Lycanthrope]

I think there are a lot of shooters that exagerrate, but that doesn't mean it's necessarily a hard shot to make. In calm conditions, it's just physics.

Have a gun that shoots .5 moa and know your ranges and ballistics. Most importantly, you need to "hunt" for the right conditions and setup. My gun has a Jewell trigger that breaks at 1lb and magnification that allows me to see the animal easily. It's designed for that shot.

I have an adjustable bipod and sometimes I use a full sized bean bag on uneven terrain (like loose slag piles).

There are several over 500 yard kills on video here. Shooting hillside to hillside was a valid way of hunting when I was growing up in PA.

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