Question about guns in the safe - Page 2

Zhillsauditor · April 15, 2013, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Common sense?.... And perhaps his profession?

A is in limited supply, and it it takes a friend to tell you about it, then it really isn't all that common, now is it? And B is incorrect as firefighter is not a profession. Direct experience might be acceptable, or maybe insurance company testing.

Of the firefighters I know, they tell me that as soon as they know ammo to be in the house, they back off and save the surrounding houses.

Does anyone have any direct experience of firearms in a safe surviving a house destroying fire in the condition they were in before they went into the safe? Maybe some insurance tests, or safe maker testing that mixed the ammo and firearms in the same safe?

allaroundhunter · April 15, 2013, 06:10 PM

I agree with you seeing as common sense is anything but common in this day and age. And even though a firefighter will back off from a house once they know that there is ammunition, many still would have the knowledge of what would lead to the destruction of a safe's contents.

But your question is a good one, and one that I would be interested in hearing examples for as well.

j357 · April 15, 2013, 10:05 PM

I learned early on, all guns are always loaded. If it looks like a gun I consider it loaded. If it is in my house it is loaded, in and out of the safe, with two exceptions, an old G98 rifle that I suspect has been 'sporterized' and dont know the caliber of, my grandfather's 30-30.

**JohnKSa** · April 15, 2013, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Direct experience might be acceptable, or maybe insurance company testing.

You can look at the specs of the safe to determine the maximum internal temperature specified and then see if it is higher than the flashpoint of nitrocellulose and primers.

I did this at one point for my particular safe and found that the ammunition will go off before the safe reaches the maximum specified internal temperature.

hermanpj · April 16, 2013, 12:32 AM

I view my handguns that are outside the safe as my first line of defense until i can get to the safe, which is nearby but not in the bedroom... so yes i keep loaded weapons in the safe. In the event one of them was needed, it would be foolish to count on having time to unlock the ammo locker, select the appropriate rounds for the situation, load magazines, and so forth. all weapons i keep loaded are tagged with a 3 inch by 2 inch red warning label that tells me unequivcoably which ones are loaded, and of course i always consider every gun to be loaded in the manner of how i handle them.

I do hear the arguments on fire safety and i don't have a response. I Have to think on that but right now i still feel that the benefit of having higher capability weapons at the ready outweighs the risk associated with fire, and realize firefighters may have to watch it burn in order to avoid risk. Tough call.

On the point as to some guns outside of the safe being loaded, but not having any guns in the safe loaded due to small kids around, i dont get that. All of my guns are in some form of a safe or another. i have 2 young children in the home so if i feel safe having handgun safes with loaded weapons why would one feel unsafe having a standing safe that has loaded guns in it? If the concern is forgetting which ones are loaded, tag them as i describe above of course always treat everything like it is loaded, check and check again and again... anyway, my point was i didnt get what the link was to having kids around or not. you either have crossed the bridge where you are going to have loaded guns in your home, or you have not.

JimmyR · April 16, 2013, 12:59 AM

Most of my weapons are stored with rounds close at hand- either in mags next to the weapon or in an open cylinder. A round doesn't enter the chamber unless I am about to put the gun in a holster on my body, or it is coming with me in some other carry style.

CSG · April 16, 2013, 03:48 PM

No, they aren't loaded.

deepcreek · April 16, 2013, 04:28 PM

No. my safe is only for storage keeping guns loaded in there would only make them more dangerous to take out and handle.

darkgael · April 16, 2013, 06:45 PM

Àbout the little .25

weldonjr2001 · April 17, 2013, 04:28 PM

All the carry pistols in my safe stay chamber loaded with whatever self-defense load I've decided on for that pistol. I do unload the magazines if its not in my current carry rotation.

Carry revolvers stay loaded.

I don't keep the .22 handguns loaded as they are just for recreation.

I know any handgun that I pull from the safe has a round in the chamber, and that round has only been chambered once.

I think chambering rounds more than once is a bad practice, not that anybody asked.

If I'm going to the range to shoot a quantity of FMJ through any of the pistols, I go ahead and shoot the JHP that was in the chamber first, along with a couple more, as though I was using it in self defense.

I do keep plenty of desiccant in my safe.

fire4606 · April 17, 2013, 09:28 PM

Quote:

And B is incorrect as firefighter is not a profession.

Really??? LOL it's my profession, the only job i have, pays for all my bills and all my guns..

So what am i supposed to call it then..?

Doublea A · April 17, 2013, 10:03 PM

They are all loaded but I don't have many, just three handguns and an AR. However none of the firearms are chambered. All the magazines are loaded except the range magazines and the new magazines. I also do store all my ammo in the gun safe which has UL fire rating of 30mins which is not much time.

fire4606 · April 17, 2013, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Of the firefighters I know, they tell me that as soon as they know ammo to be in the house, they back off and save the surrounding houses.

Where is this at....??? LOL

kilimanjaro · April 18, 2013, 10:27 AM

When the unchambered ammo cooks off, you're going to damage every gun in the safe. When the chambered ammo cooks off, if it hits anyone, the fire dept. is going to back off and let the entire house burn.

montanaoffroader · April 19, 2013, 12:08 AM

Guns in the safe, unloaded. The ammo kept is separately from the guns.

Guns outside the safe (self defense guns) loaded. Lock them in a closet when I have people with small children over.

Sport45 · April 19, 2013, 01:25 AM

In a former life I was a volunteer fireman. When ammo cooks off it sounds like firecrackers and we didn't worry about anything getting through the bunker coat / face shield. If it cooks of in the chamber it sounds like guns going off (it is) and we'd pull out.

Hairspray and WD-40 cans caused more concern than loose ammunition.

oldgunsmith · April 19, 2013, 03:08 PM

Ammo cooking off in a safe isn't good for anything else in there with it. I didn't think that was rocket science, but apparently to some it is.

KnotRight · April 19, 2013, 04:57 PM

As the OP of this thread, I did not even think about having ammo stored in the safe. I have a bunch of different calibers in there. Enough to take up 2 shelfs. Might even have 10 magizines for the AR and SKS in there full along with round in a bunch of magazines that are in the gun boxes.

Got to think about removing all the ammo out of the safe. Could store it where I used to store the guns before I had the safe. It is VERY secure just not fire proof or retartent. The questions that I am kicking around is, I have up dated the security system in the house and who ever breaks in better be out VERY quickly. So I am not really worried that much about the guns getting stolen. But the fire is a different question.

The guns are insured (but some could not be replaced) but the ammo is not.

Dragline45 · April 19, 2013, 06:42 PM

Shotgun and full size pistol always loaded. My carry gun is always within arms reach.

jerryv · April 19, 2013, 10:06 PM

I keep a loaded S&W 9c, with no safety, in a holster attached to the inside of the safe door. my safe has the left side and back against a wall..If im forced to open the safe the door will swing open and i easly draw the gun and fire while stepping behind the door for protection.

Sport45 · April 20, 2013, 08:25 AM

Quote:

If im forced to open the safe the door will swing open and i easly draw the gun and fire while stepping behind the door for protection.

I wish you luck with that.

I can't imagine anyone holding a gun on you and letting you get to your guns. Why wouldn't they just force you to give the combination or key? Can you really count on them to be stupid after they've outsmarted you to that point?

geetarman · April 20, 2013, 09:12 AM

I keep one gun in my safe loaded. I keep one gun in my roll around tool box loaded.

All the guns in my house are loaded.

I will revisit that if I ever have grandchildren.

745SW · April 20, 2013, 06:07 PM

Generally the stuff in the safe are unloaded. The exception is when I need to takeoff for a while, loaded guns outside the safe are placed inside the safe.

hbhobby · April 20, 2013, 08:42 PM

Nothing in the safe is loaded but everything outside the safe is locked and cocked

pcb911 · April 24, 2013, 05:10 PM

In Feb., I posted a thread about a Youtube on firefighters burning ammo in different places to see how it reacts to fire. That is a training film now used by FDs all over the country. Wish I could have had just part of the ammo destroyed. It was sad.

Some departments back off. Some flood the area and don't worry about the ammo. A fire grows 7 times it size every minute it burns. So faster the atttack, the better the results. If it ain't poppin, you have time. If it starts poppin, duck.

As to a gun safe: At first, a safe gives some protection as the surrounding air heats up. The interior temps take a long time to match the fire outside the safe. And I mean a long time. The safe becomes an oven, cooking everything inside. Now a bullet in a chamber would have to heat up from the increase in the temp to the outside of the chamber. So more time to cook off.

So, for a bullet to cook off in a gun in a safe. Would not everything in the safe be already ruined from the heat? Grips, stocks, slings, gas in scopes, and anything that is combustible is turning to ash. Bullets in a mag would cook off before a chambered round. With that kind of damage, what would it matter if loaded or not.

After looking a several houses that had burned, we came up with a things to consider when placing a gun safe. If anyone is interested, I can remember most of them and will submit them to this thread if requested.

April 16, 2013, 12:32 AM	#30
hermanpj Member Join Date: August 9, 2012 Location: Dallas TX Posts: 77	I view my handguns that are outside the safe as my first line of defense until i can get to the safe, which is nearby but not in the bedroom... so yes i keep loaded weapons in the safe. In the event one of them was needed, it would be foolish to count on having time to unlock the ammo locker, select the appropriate rounds for the situation, load magazines, and so forth. all weapons i keep loaded are tagged with a 3 inch by 2 inch red warning label that tells me unequivcoably which ones are loaded, and of course i always consider every gun to be loaded in the manner of how i handle them. I do hear the arguments on fire safety and i don't have a response. I Have to think on that but right now i still feel that the benefit of having higher capability weapons at the ready outweighs the risk associated with fire, and realize firefighters may have to watch it burn in order to avoid risk. Tough call. On the point as to some guns outside of the safe being loaded, but not having any guns in the safe loaded due to small kids around, i dont get that. All of my guns are in some form of a safe or another. i have 2 young children in the home so if i feel safe having handgun safes with loaded weapons why would one feel unsafe having a standing safe that has loaded guns in it? If the concern is forgetting which ones are loaded, tag them as i describe above of course always treat everything like it is loaded, check and check again and again... anyway, my point was i didnt get what the link was to having kids around or not. you either have crossed the bridge where you are going to have loaded guns in your home, or you have not. __________________ NRA Member\|Texas State Rifle Association Member\| Texas Concealed Handgun License holder\|Springfield M1A Loaded\|Kimber Super Carry Pro .45 ACP\|Weatherby SA 459 12 ga\|Black Rain+Adams Arms Piston AR15\|Beretta 92FS\| CZ Dan Wesson ECO 9MM\| Ruger 10/22

April 16, 2013, 06:45 PM	#34
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	Mice Àbout the little .25 __________________ “Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” Ernest Hemingway ... NRA Life Member

April 17, 2013, 10:03 PM	#37
Doublea A Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 2011 Location: Land of 10,000 Lakes. Posts: 132	They are all loaded but I don't have many, just three handguns and an AR. However none of the firearms are chambered. All the magazines are loaded except the range magazines and the new magazines. I also do store all my ammo in the gun safe which has UL fire rating of 30mins which is not much time. __________________ [B]Future additions: Barret MRAD .338 Lapua.[B] Acquisition 2 Gen 3 Glock 19, 1 Gen 4 Glock 19, Daniel Defense V3 LW M4, Ruger SR1911, a Mossberg 500 and Remington 700 SPS AAC-SD. A fear of weapons is a sign of sexual retardation and emotional inmaturity.” Sigmund Freud Last edited by Doublea A; April 17, 2013 at 10:11 PM.

April 19, 2013, 12:08 AM	#40
montanaoffroader Member Join Date: February 12, 2012 Location: Big Sky Country Posts: 60	Guns in the safe, unloaded. The ammo kept is separately from the guns. Guns outside the safe (self defense guns) loaded. Lock them in a closet when I have people with small children over. __________________ No longer trapped behind the Redwood Curtain......

April 19, 2013, 01:25 AM	#41
Sport45 Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 1999 Location: Too close to Houston Posts: 4,196	In a former life I was a volunteer fireman. When ammo cooks off it sounds like firecrackers and we didn't worry about anything getting through the bunker coat / face shield. If it cooks of in the chamber it sounds like guns going off (it is) and we'd pull out. Hairspray and WD-40 cans caused more concern than loose ammunition. __________________ Proud member of the NRA and Texas State Rifle Association. Registered and active voter.

April 15, 2013, 06:10 PM	#27
allaroundhunter Senior Member Join Date: May 6, 2012 Location: Southeast Texas Posts: 1,670	I agree with you seeing as common sense is anything but common in this day and age. And even though a firefighter will back off from a house once they know that there is ammunition, many still would have the knowledge of what would lead to the destruction of a safe's contents. But your question is a good one, and one that I would be interested in hearing examples for as well.

April 15, 2013, 10:05 PM	#28
j357 Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2009 Location: Liberty Twp, OH Posts: 283	I learned early on, all guns are always loaded. If it looks like a gun I consider it loaded. If it is in my house it is loaded, in and out of the safe, with two exceptions, an old G98 rifle that I suspect has been 'sporterized' and dont know the caliber of, my grandfather's 30-30.

April 16, 2013, 12:59 AM	#31
JimmyR Senior Member Join Date: February 4, 2012 Posts: 1,273	Most of my weapons are stored with rounds close at hand- either in mags next to the weapon or in an open cylinder. A round doesn't enter the chamber unless I am about to put the gun in a holster on my body, or it is coming with me in some other carry style.

April 16, 2013, 03:48 PM	#32
CSG Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 1999 Location: Out West Posts: 176	No, they aren't loaded.

April 16, 2013, 04:28 PM	#33
deepcreek Senior Member Join Date: March 30, 2013 Location: Colorado Posts: 320	No. my safe is only for storage keeping guns loaded in there would only make them more dangerous to take out and handle.

April 17, 2013, 04:28 PM	#35
weldonjr2001 Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2001 Location: San Antonio, Tx. Posts: 462	All the carry pistols in my safe stay chamber loaded with whatever self-defense load I've decided on for that pistol. I do unload the magazines if its not in my current carry rotation. Carry revolvers stay loaded. I don't keep the .22 handguns loaded as they are just for recreation. I know any handgun that I pull from the safe has a round in the chamber, and that round has only been chambered once. I think chambering rounds more than once is a bad practice, not that anybody asked. If I'm going to the range to shoot a quantity of FMJ through any of the pistols, I go ahead and shoot the JHP that was in the chamber first, along with a couple more, as though I was using it in self defense. I do keep plenty of desiccant in my safe.

April 18, 2013, 10:27 AM	#39
kilimanjaro Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2009 Posts: 3,963	When the unchambered ammo cooks off, you're going to damage every gun in the safe. When the chambered ammo cooks off, if it hits anyone, the fire dept. is going to back off and let the entire house burn.

April 19, 2013, 03:08 PM	#42
oldgunsmith Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2013 Posts: 278	Ammo cooking off in a safe isn't good for anything else in there with it. I didn't think that was rocket science, but apparently to some it is.

April 19, 2013, 04:57 PM	#43
KnotRight Member Join Date: February 6, 2013 Location: Savannah, GA Posts: 98	As the OP of this thread, I did not even think about having ammo stored in the safe. I have a bunch of different calibers in there. Enough to take up 2 shelfs. Might even have 10 magizines for the AR and SKS in there full along with round in a bunch of magazines that are in the gun boxes. Got to think about removing all the ammo out of the safe. Could store it where I used to store the guns before I had the safe. It is VERY secure just not fire proof or retartent. The questions that I am kicking around is, I have up dated the security system in the house and who ever breaks in better be out VERY quickly. So I am not really worried that much about the guns getting stolen. But the fire is a different question. The guns are insured (but some could not be replaced) but the ammo is not.

April 19, 2013, 06:42 PM	#44
Dragline45 Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2010 Posts: 3,513	Shotgun and full size pistol always loaded. My carry gun is always within arms reach.

April 19, 2013, 10:06 PM	#45
jerryv Member Join Date: April 24, 2010 Posts: 15	I keep a loaded S&W 9c, with no safety, in a holster attached to the inside of the safe door. my safe has the left side and back against a wall..If im forced to open the safe the door will swing open and i easly draw the gun and fire while stepping behind the door for protection.

April 20, 2013, 09:12 AM	#47
geetarman Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2009 Location: Arizona Posts: 3,157	I keep one gun in my safe loaded. I keep one gun in my roll around tool box loaded. All the guns in my house are loaded. I will revisit that if I ever have grandchildren. __________________ Geetarman Carpe Cerveza

April 20, 2013, 06:07 PM	#48
745SW Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2011 Location: California Posts: 776	Generally the stuff in the safe are unloaded. The exception is when I need to takeoff for a while, loaded guns outside the safe are placed inside the safe.

April 20, 2013, 08:42 PM	#49
hbhobby Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2013 Location: Payson Az Posts: 169	Nothing in the safe is loaded but everything outside the safe is locked and cocked

April 24, 2013, 05:10 PM	#50
pcb911 Member Join Date: February 10, 2011 Location: North Georgia & Fl. Posts: 44	In Feb., I posted a thread about a Youtube on firefighters burning ammo in different places to see how it reacts to fire. That is a training film now used by FDs all over the country. Wish I could have had just part of the ammo destroyed. It was sad. Some departments back off. Some flood the area and don't worry about the ammo. A fire grows 7 times it size every minute it burns. So faster the atttack, the better the results. If it ain't poppin, you have time. If it starts poppin, duck. As to a gun safe: At first, a safe gives some protection as the surrounding air heats up. The interior temps take a long time to match the fire outside the safe. And I mean a long time. The safe becomes an oven, cooking everything inside. Now a bullet in a chamber would have to heat up from the increase in the temp to the outside of the chamber. So more time to cook off. So, for a bullet to cook off in a gun in a safe. Would not everything in the safe be already ruined from the heat? Grips, stocks, slings, gas in scopes, and anything that is combustible is turning to ash. Bullets in a mag would cook off before a chambered round. With that kind of damage, what would it matter if loaded or not. After looking a several houses that had burned, we came up with a things to consider when placing a gun safe. If anyone is interested, I can remember most of them and will submit them to this thread if requested. __________________ Assume nothing.