Best all around rifle caliber advice

[Mystro]

Jack O'Connor has been reported to take a number of big cats and large Aftrican game with his 270. I never heard of any Elephants but those bushman did some amazing stuff, so who knows?? Elk was considered a ideal game for the 270 with moose stretching it but not outside the 270 winchester's ability. 2 calibers he always took to Africa and India were the 375 H&H and his 270. Considering Roy Weatherby was a very good friend, he used the 300 Weatherby for a litle bit but admitted the same animals were just as dead when being shot by his 270. He also used the 30-06 and 7Rem Mag. Pretty much the same major calibers were available to JOC but he kept going back to the 270. . Shot placement was always preached by JOC.
In North America he is know he killed 8-9 Grizzly bears, several moose and dozens of Elk with his 270. Jack would eagerly say just about all the dozens of Elk he killed with his 270 dropped in their own shadow. I alway get a kick out of new hunters asking if the 270 is enough to kill elk. I would love to see what he would do with the 270 with today's bonded bullets. JOC knew the capabilities of the 270 as well as many other calibers.

One very well reported experiment he did with Roy Weatherby was to take a 26" barrel of a 270 Weatherby Magnum and incrementally cut the barrel down to the traditional size of 20" of most 270 Winchester guns. The results yielded the same speed as the 270 Winchester. Roy laughed and reported to say..."Don't give away all my secrets"...

This book should be required reading for all serious Rifleman. It explains about every thing you want to know about most calibers and why things work the way they do.

I've never heard of anyone taking a lion, hippo, cape buffalo or elephant with a .270. Does anyone have information to validate this statement?
I'm not trying to be contentious, just curious about caliber capabilities.

[Colt46]

in a modern action you can get 2-300 fps faster than factory loadings for those awesome 140 grain bullets if you handload.

The swede is superbly accurate, boasts mild recoil and their 130-140 grain bullets are deadly on medium to large game animals. The swedes hunt moose with them.

[johnwilliamson062]

6.5 Swede.

[Tucker 1371]

.308 Win, great in semi autos, bolt actions, and most game in N America. Not ideal for self defense but with proper ammo selection it could work.

[4runnerman]

While the 270 is a good caliber it would not be my choice either. All calibers listed here will do a 400 yard shot with ease. As written by JOC shot placement is the key.. With that in mind I would take the 243,308 or 260 way before the 270. I feel any of those 3 would be more accurate in the long run. Now the 25-06 is another flat shooting one to. All that put together with todays modern bullets,, any rifle listed here would do the job. Find the one that suits you the best,feels the best,and when you pick it up and hold it,,,They just kinda mush with you.

[taylorce1]

Originally Posted by 4runnerman

With that in mind I would take the 243,308 or 260 way before the 270. I feel any of those 3 would be more accurate in the long run.

I'd disagree, those cartridges do have more bullet options available for the hand loader. However, for a non re-loader there will never be any noticeable difference in accuracy. There sure won't be much difference in recoil between a 130 grain .270 and a 150 grain .308.

[4runnerman]

that is true taylorce-- There are people out there that don't reload?. Now maybe we could talk 270 WSM. Now that would be sweet. Now,, Me never having hunted Moose or Elk can't really say. I have had a 30-06 and the me it was not worth the little extra you gain from it in speed. I know it shoots flatter and faster than say 308, but to me a 308 will drop any thing with ease and the 243,,well that is just fun to shoot. I hear people talking at the range about how bigger is better. I just laugh inside to myself at them. IMHO - The 270 is in the same class as the 06, just extra that you don't need for hunting in N. America.
Now thats just my opinion. Nothing at all wrong with those 2, just not for me.

[Mystro]

Really? Look at the bullet drop of the 270 against the 300 Win mag from Hornady over the counter ammo. Nearly identical out to 500 yards and way out performs the 30-06. There is no way a 308 can keep up to a 270 Win if the more powereful 30-06 can't. Remember the 270 was solely designed from its birth as a hunting round.
What other non magnum caliber is gonna run with the 270? Not even the 6.5 Creedmoor will match the 270. The 243 or 308 are not even close. Look at the energy of the 270 at 500 yards.




Here is a good article why the 270 is a great long range (1000 yard +) caliber platform.
http://www.longrangehunting.com/arti...shooting-1.php



Here is a standard Savage 270 taking a goat at 721 yards. That's a long poke for a sporting rifle.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-VBAInIDlG4

[603Country]

When I need real results, I take my Sako 270 with me. The biggest thing I ever shoot is a big whitetail or a big pig, and I've had no failures that I can blame on the caliber. If I had the urge to shoot something significantly larger and tougher, I'd probably get a 30-06 or maybe a 30-06AI. And when I say 'larger and tougher', I'm not talking about a grizzly but more about a moose. Still, I think the 270 will do all I need on this continent.

But there really isn't a best all around rifle caliber for everyone. The best all around caliber for a woodchuck hunter isn't the same as the best for African game. Get a 270. You won't be sorry.

[4runnerman]

Again Mystro- I do not disagree with anything you have posted,Don't get me wrong. The 270 is a great one for sure. I just was saying that it is more than needed to do the job. Nothing wrong with using it at all. I just feel many more cartridges are just as good if not better for the job.in terms of recoil,cost,and accuracy. I got rid of my 06 because I found the 308 to be more to my liking in all 3 categories i stated. The 270 is all around more powerful and flatter shooting,only I never found those 2 issues to be a problem in the first place. I shoot my 308 out to 1000 yards with very good accuracy. Could i do that with a 270-- Yes I'm sure I could. I would never turn my nose on one if it was offered to me. With accuracy being my main goal,,I will stick with the 308 all the way.

[K1500]

Mystro,

As was pointed out in the other thread, you are comparing .270 Superformance to regular .30-06 and .300WM. Why don't you compare are apples to apples and show Superformance for all three?

[Ruger480]

Because K1500, that data wouldn't support the claim that the 270 is equal to the 06.

[NEO Hunter]

Thanks for all the good responses it has been helpful seeing everyone's opinions.

[Mystro]

Of course the a owner of what ever caliber is going to purchase the best performing load for his caliber. Do you want me to pick the worst to handicap it so it looks close?? Go pick whatever load you want and put it against the Hornady 270 Superformance 130 grain. The 30-06 with a 150 SST Superformance drops 38.40" at 500 yards and has 1366ftlbs in energy. Sill behind the 270 at 33.70" at 500 yards and 1414 ftlbs of energy.

The point is even with the other calibers in Superormance, the results are the same. The 30-06 regardless how you load it won't have as much energy and will have more bullet drop than the 270 at 500 yards. For long range shooting, the 270 Winchester has performance closer to the 300 Win Mag and always out performs the 30-06. JOC knew this by putting the 270 under a microscope and comparing it to other calibers performance. Better ballistic coefficient and bullet sectional density. That's why he favored the 270's performance. Factor in less recoil , superior ballistics, and ammunition availability and its a no brainer.

I did all this research as a die hard 300 Win Mag owner for 15 years. I started to read some of Jack O'Connors books and philosophies in calibers. It was easy to see the superiority of the 300 Win Mag over the 30-06 but when comparing it to the 270 Win, it was eye opening and gave me a reality check. Maybe JOC was right. Why was I carrying a Magnum for deer and black bear?? It didn't take me long to figure out the 270 would give me the same longer range of shooting as my 300 Win Mag with ALOT less recoil, cheaper ammo, and smaller gun platform. It was a win, win.

Military cartridges always have had a following for one reason or another be it cheap surplus rifles or ammo that gives them more accessibility than purpose built hunting calibers. Its always been that way.
You can shoot what you want but when you dig a little and compare calibers specs, there is a hell of a argument why the 270 Winchester is as good as it is and why its been so popular for so long especially being a purpose built hunting caliber and not a military round.

The cool thing is with today's better bullets, the old tried an true calibers have had their potential raised so the 243,308,270,30-06 etc have only gotten better for hunting and have raised the question even more why you probably dont need to a "magnum" for hunting in North America.

[taylorce1]

First off considering that Hornady has halted production of the Superformance rounds for the foreseeable future it is kind of pointless to compare it to anything. Second Hornady doesn't offer a 150 grain .30-06 load in Superformance it is a 165 grain SST load. The third thing is that after maximum point blank range (MPBR) every round is going to have to be shot using holdover or twisting the knobs on your scope.

So if we compare MPBR of the .270 SST it only gets your 36 more yards and 109 ft-lb when compared to your .30-06 standard load when shooting at a target with a 10" diameter. So after MPBR if you've worked out the dope properly on your chosen cartridge and you can read the wind correctly then there is no real world difference between the capabilities of the .30-06 and .270. As much as I like the .270 in reality it only offers a 20 yard advantage over a 150 out of a .30-06 in MPBR and lacks 10 ft-lb energy at the MPBR compared to the .30-06 when using standard ammunition of 3060 fps for the .270 Win.

Back when JOC hunted with the .270 Win most of the standard loads were 180 grains in the .30-06. When compared to a 180 grain load to the .270 130 grain load ballistics offer an advantage of MPBR that was enticing to a lot of hunters back then. Then they found up how much less recoil it offered vs. a 180 grain .30-06 and they fell in love with the cartridge.

[Mystro]

You are mistaken,...Hornady makes 3 separate 150 Grain 30-06 Superformance loads. SST, SST Interbond, GMX. Same as the 270 Win. They are making them because the "Temporarily suspended" was generically posted only to catch up with the current demand. I read that about the 270 on their web site and called them. They have started production on all their main calibers using Superformance in most all bullet weights. Superformance will be their future in rifle ammunition. The 30-06 SST Superformance are in stock at Sportsmans Guide for $27.64. I know SG carries 165 and 180 Superformance. Talking to Hornady, Superformance will eventually become their standard load for all calibers. They are moving it across the entire line of bullets and calibers. Superformance will be the new norm. Remington is also trying to do the same thing with their "Hyper Sonic" but has not been as fast as Hornady in independent testing.
There will still be a price point load offered by Hornady in the older interlock (soft point) ammo and will be marketed it as American Whitetail. The old Soft Points have put the smack down on deer for 70 years and can be a better choice in the brush.


[/URL]










I am going by a very neutral and even playing field manufacture specs of the latest top shelf high performance ammo.. That way all things are equal including barrel length.

JOC did use the 150 in the 30-06 and talked much about how the 165 grain would have to be used to give the 30-06 a better ballistic coefficient. Not much has changed in bullet weights with these two calibers over the years. The BC in the 30-06 cant catch up to the BC of the 270. At 100 yards the 30-06 is loosing energy fast.

[ripnbst]

Easy choice. .270WIN.

Another one I'd consider not on the OP's list is .308WIN.

.308 is short action vs the .270 Long action.

[Brian Pfleuger]

Long range trajectory is virtually irrelevant to cartridge performance. If you're shooting at something that matters from 500 yards away, you're not guessing the distance. You're dialing in the trajectory and you know what your gun does, or you're a fool for trying to shoot at something that matters from that distance. If you know what your gun does and you're dialing the distance, trajectory is irrelevant.

The "wild card" is your ability to judge wind. Even if you have a fancy, expensive, whirly bird wind meter, it doesn't tell you a thing about what the wind is doing half way across the valley or 15 feet above line of sight, where your bullet will be.

Sighted for 500 yards and using all Winchester Silver Tip factory ammo, there is a 10mph wind drift difference of 0.6 inches between a 180gr .30-06 and a 130gr .270., 24.4 versus 25.0. Going to the 150gr .30-06, the difference is 4.5 inches, in favor of the .270.

That means that if you misjudged the wind by an average of 10mph, you'd miss your intended POI by 2 feet with the .270 and at worst by 30 inches with the .30-06.

If you DON'T misjudge the wind, it's just as irrelevant as the trajectory. If you do, you just missed your intended POI by 2+ feet.

Anyone care to make an argument that missing by 2 feet is better than missing by 30 inches?

In other words, virtually any modern cartridge is more than up to any reasonable task at any distance at which the shooter is up to the task. Pick your favorite and learn to shoot it. If you can't decide, roll some dice. If the dice picks a cartridge and you're disappointed when you see the roll, you know you didn't really want that one, pick the other.

[Mystro]

Long range trajectory is virtually irrelevant to cartridge performance.

Are you kidding??? Thats a pretty big dismissal. Not buying it Brian,....You are interjecting operator error with hypothetical wind.... Comparing calibers with known performance variables is the only way to fairly and neutrally evaluate them.
Bullet drop is a known variable that cant be overlooked and is always present.

This guy didnt seem to have any trouble at 720 yards on a goat.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VBAInIDlG4

[Brian Pfleuger]

Exactly... it's a KNOWN variable. That makes it irrelevant.

Is it 25 clicks or 30? Range the target, check the charts, make the clicks. It doesn't matter if it's 18 or 45 or 60, so long as you know. Make the clicks. Done.

[Mystro]

Thats a pretty big known factor you are arbitrarily dismissing. Thats a personal choice and not a caliber comparison factor. Most hunters buy flat shooting calibers so they dont have to make sight adjustments. They zero their gun for maximum sight on game shots. Even if you were going to take +500 yard shots and adjust your optics with a compensator, if you cant dope the wind, you have no business taking any long range shot regardless what caliber it is. Thats a training issue not caliber deficiency.

[Brian Pfleuger]

Exactly my point.

You're making my point for me.

You have to be able to read the wind and know the distance to make the shot.

If you DO know, the cartridge in your gun is irrelevant. If you DON'T know, the cartridge in your gun isn't going to save you.

"Flat shooting" is only relevant as it applies to the difference in MBPR. Since those distances vary between almost any major caliber by 20 or 30 yards and are usually in the 300-ish yard range, they are also irrelevant at 500 yards.

What most hunters do doesn't mean it's based on reality either.

"Most hunters" will tell you that "Caliber X" isn't sufficient for elk/deer/bear/moose/etc too, that doesn't mean they know what they're talking about.

[Mystro]

I think we have been agreeing to agree but looking at it from two different directions...
Energy at the end of the shot does matter so there is limit to how far you can take a particular caliber for certain size game so BC (ie energy) are the definitive factor to consider for long range.

[Brian Pfleuger]

Perhaps we are.

On energy, yes, it can matter, but it's another area that is vastly over-stated and obsessed on in an almost religious way.

As an extreme example to make my point, I'd much rather have the young lady who's about to make the 500 yard shot on an elk be one who has burned through 4 barrels in her .243 and knows the thing stone cold than have her using her husband's .300Win Mag that she hates and never shoots because it hurts but her husband "made her" bring it because the .243 "ain't enough".

[Mystro]

Absolutely...... You hit the nail on the head. Recoil is just as much a factor for long range shooting, even for experienced shooters.

The 270 with its lower recoil and high BC is about as much as a free ride your gonna get for medium game and long range shooting.. If I can get a 270 Superformance load to darn near match a conventional 300 win mag load with energy and bullet drop out at 500 yards, that is a heck of a free lunch. I am shooting the same distances now with my 270 as I was with my 300 win mag. I think I am more accurate with my 270 because I can shoot more shots at one sitting and ammo cost 1/3 less $$$.

Obviously if I am hunting big moose and dangerous game as my primary goal, I am going with the 300 Win Mag with a 180 grain bullet. But for elk, deer, black bear, caribou, hogs, ram, goats, prong horns, etc...I am taking the 270 Winchester every time.