Triggers.....

Dave McC · April 16, 2001, 05:06 AM

Someone asked about trigger weight,so here goes some things about triggers and trigger techniques....

Shotguns aren't famous for great triggers, the way Pre-64 Model 70 rifles are. After all, we just slap them, right?

Care to wager that guy on the trap range with the 100 straight patches on his vest just slaps any ol' trigger any ol' way? Also, would you care to bet his trigger runs, heavy, gritty and uneven?

My guess is 90% of the shotguns out there have triggers too heavy and gritty for best work.

But, let's start with technique.ENSURE YOUR SHOTGUN IS UNLOADED, LEAVE THE ROOM WITH THE AMMO IN IT, and mount your shotgun.
Snap caps are a good idea here...

With a proper grip, your index finger should fall on the trigger between the first joint crease and the absolute tip.
The closer to the tip, the better.And the closer to the tip of the trigger,not the center, the better also. Let the leverage work for you.Squeeze straight back. Practice this a bit at home and remember it the next time you go to the range.You may be going against decades of poor technique, so concentrate and do not relapse. You want a fast, controlled squeeze, not a jerk. Shoot this way until you're tired, and quit. A few sessions like this should show improvement in your scores.Why? Consistency....

Now the hardware...
First, let's hope your smith knows shotgun triggers. Most shotgun mechanisms differ from their rifle equivalents, and some so-called smiths can $%^&* up a shotgun PDQ. What you want is a clean trigger of moderate weight with no overtravel.

Often, major improvement can be made just by a thorough disassembly, cleaning and lubing. Just like many shotgun bbls are over cleaned, most action areas are undercleaned.

If that doesn't do the job, ask the smith to get a clean, safe trigger of no more than 4 lbs, no less than 2 1/2. The Brits preach that a trigger should run 50% of gun weight, plus a half lb for the second trigger on a double, but I dislike triggers over 4 lbs.

So, we now have good technique, and our triggers have been honed to a fine,crisp pull. Is there anything else we can do in this area?

Consider a trigger shoe. The larger area in contact means that the pull FEELS lighter, and it's easier to find a consistent break point. The 870TB trap gun here has one, and it's a delight...

PJR · April 16, 2001, 08:10 AM

My understanding of triggers expanded greatly when I was given a scale that measured trigger pull. My Beretta auto was at 4 pounds but it was a long, mushy trigger pull with a lot of overtravel. Terribly trigger.

My over/unders were almost identical, 3-1/2 lbs. on the lower and 4 lbs. on the upper. But one gun has slightly crisper triggers and they feel a little lighter.

The shocker were the triggers on an older continential sxs that had been worked over by a very competent smith. There was absolutely no creep or overtravel at all. They are outstanding triggers but I was very surprised to find the pull weights were 5-1/2 and almost 6 pounds.

As for trigger shoes, be careful if they extend laterally much beyond the trigger guard. A shooter at our club had a very large trigger shoe on his Winchester Model 12 and one day inadvertently put a round into the back of the trap house. He attempted to recreate the situation (with an unloaded gun, of course) and concluded that the trigger shoe became caught in his coat and held the trigger back as he was loading. The older Model 12 does not have a disconnector and if the trigger is held back it will fire when the action is closed. No harm done other than to the paint on the back of the trap house but a good lesson on safety.

Paul

Dave McC · April 17, 2001, 05:22 AM

I may disagree with you a bit, Paul, or maybe not. Weight,IMO, is the big problem, overtravel and mushiness smaller ones. A crisp 6 lb trigger beats a mushy, long 6 lb trigger, but a crisp 4 lb trigger beats them both.

And, I'd wager that the SXS you cite had fairly wide triggers.

Trigger shoes are like garlic, a little is great, a lot is not(G)...

Nothing attached to the trigger nor the trigger itself should protude from the housing.

PJR · April 17, 2001, 10:08 AM

Dave:

I don't think we disagree. A crisp trigger at 4lbs is better than one at 6lbs all else equal but I'd rather have crisp and a little heavier than light and mushy.

The sxs in question has the usual narrow triggers found on a double trigger gun. I'd much rather shoot it than the mushy trigger on my Beretta even though the Beretta pull is lighter.

Paul

Dave McC · April 18, 2001, 05:47 AM

Mushyness destroys control,IMO, and maybe a slightly heavier trigger that's crisp beats a lighter, mushy one. On most shotguns, tho, we can have both crisp and light.

On reflection, I realize that most of the doubles I've shot, including some hardware store clunkers, had crisper triggers than most repeaters, tho some were quite heavy.

On my two 870 slug shooters, the triggers run 3-4 lbs, no creep, and no overtravel. That last was taken care of by gluing a pencil eraser behind each trigger and cutting to size.

April 16, 2001, 08:10 AM	#2
PJR Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2000 Posts: 1,127	Pull weight vs. crispness My understanding of triggers expanded greatly when I was given a scale that measured trigger pull. My Beretta auto was at 4 pounds but it was a long, mushy trigger pull with a lot of overtravel. Terribly trigger. My over/unders were almost identical, 3-1/2 lbs. on the lower and 4 lbs. on the upper. But one gun has slightly crisper triggers and they feel a little lighter. The shocker were the triggers on an older continential sxs that had been worked over by a very competent smith. There was absolutely no creep or overtravel at all. They are outstanding triggers but I was very surprised to find the pull weights were 5-1/2 and almost 6 pounds. As for trigger shoes, be careful if they extend laterally much beyond the trigger guard. A shooter at our club had a very large trigger shoe on his Winchester Model 12 and one day inadvertently put a round into the back of the trap house. He attempted to recreate the situation (with an unloaded gun, of course) and concluded that the trigger shoe became caught in his coat and held the trigger back as he was loading. The older Model 12 does not have a disconnector and if the trigger is held back it will fire when the action is closed. No harm done other than to the paint on the back of the trap house but a good lesson on safety. Paul

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April 16, 2001, 05:06 AM	#1
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Someone asked about trigger weight,so here goes some things about triggers and trigger techniques.... Shotguns aren't famous for great triggers, the way Pre-64 Model 70 rifles are. After all, we just slap them, right? Care to wager that guy on the trap range with the 100 straight patches on his vest just slaps any ol' trigger any ol' way? Also, would you care to bet his trigger runs, heavy, gritty and uneven? My guess is 90% of the shotguns out there have triggers too heavy and gritty for best work. But, let's start with technique.ENSURE YOUR SHOTGUN IS UNLOADED, LEAVE THE ROOM WITH THE AMMO IN IT, and mount your shotgun. Snap caps are a good idea here... With a proper grip, your index finger should fall on the trigger between the first joint crease and the absolute tip. The closer to the tip, the better.And the closer to the tip of the trigger,not the center, the better also. Let the leverage work for you.Squeeze straight back. Practice this a bit at home and remember it the next time you go to the range.You may be going against decades of poor technique, so concentrate and do not relapse. You want a fast, controlled squeeze, not a jerk. Shoot this way until you're tired, and quit. A few sessions like this should show improvement in your scores.Why? Consistency.... Now the hardware... First, let's hope your smith knows shotgun triggers. Most shotgun mechanisms differ from their rifle equivalents, and some so-called smiths can $%^&* up a shotgun PDQ. What you want is a clean trigger of moderate weight with no overtravel. Often, major improvement can be made just by a thorough disassembly, cleaning and lubing. Just like many shotgun bbls are over cleaned, most action areas are undercleaned. If that doesn't do the job, ask the smith to get a clean, safe trigger of no more than 4 lbs, no less than 2 1/2. The Brits preach that a trigger should run 50% of gun weight, plus a half lb for the second trigger on a double, but I dislike triggers over 4 lbs. So, we now have good technique, and our triggers have been honed to a fine,crisp pull. Is there anything else we can do in this area? Consider a trigger shoe. The larger area in contact means that the pull FEELS lighter, and it's easier to find a consistent break point. The 870TB trap gun here has one, and it's a delight...

April 17, 2001, 05:22 AM	#3
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	I may disagree with you a bit, Paul, or maybe not. Weight,IMO, is the big problem, overtravel and mushiness smaller ones. A crisp 6 lb trigger beats a mushy, long 6 lb trigger, but a crisp 4 lb trigger beats them both. And, I'd wager that the SXS you cite had fairly wide triggers. Trigger shoes are like garlic, a little is great, a lot is not(G)... Nothing attached to the trigger nor the trigger itself should protude from the housing.

April 17, 2001, 10:08 AM	#4
PJR Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2000 Posts: 1,127	Dave: I don't think we disagree. A crisp trigger at 4lbs is better than one at 6lbs all else equal but I'd rather have crisp and a little heavier than light and mushy. The sxs in question has the usual narrow triggers found on a double trigger gun. I'd much rather shoot it than the mushy trigger on my Beretta even though the Beretta pull is lighter. Paul

April 18, 2001, 05:47 AM	#5
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Mushyness destroys control,IMO, and maybe a slightly heavier trigger that's crisp beats a lighter, mushy one. On most shotguns, tho, we can have both crisp and light. On reflection, I realize that most of the doubles I've shot, including some hardware store clunkers, had crisper triggers than most repeaters, tho some were quite heavy. On my two 870 slug shooters, the triggers run 3-4 lbs, no creep, and no overtravel. That last was taken care of by gluing a pencil eraser behind each trigger and cutting to size.