Why did they thread lock the palm saver jag on the CVA Optima Rod?

BJE80 · February 16, 2015, 12:03 PM

Sure was a PITA to get off. I'm shooting Barnes Spitfire Sabots and are using their aligner Jag. If I want to use in the field with the Jag already on I would either have to have that jag sticking way out from the barrel or remove the factor jag. Stupid of them to use thread locker or am I missing something?

BirchOrr · February 16, 2015, 07:43 PM

They used threadlocker because the Jag after repeated firings will loosen up and get lost in the field. My son in law had this happen and I am currently making him a new jag for his CVA for that very reason.

Birch

BJE80 · February 16, 2015, 08:06 PM

Thanks. Well that makes sense but sucks for the guy that doesn't wantto use that jag.

BerdanSS · February 16, 2015, 10:20 PM

The one on my Optima V2 wasn't. It turned loose when trying to remove the "palm saver" for the first time, which then pliers were required to remove it. Actually, nothing was tightened or thread locked. If it hadn't been free and I had paid for it myself, I'd of been a P***** goose. 2nd shot the whole dang rear sight fell off (part of which was lost and I had to wait for a correct replacement

) by the third shot the front thimble was totally knocked loose. And to boot, the supplied palm saver is completely worthless for anything but range use. As you cant carry the rammer in with it installed without a big PITA runaround when you want to load.

Now that I basically had to go over every screw in the rifle and tighten/lock it down, it's an okay ML and acceptably accurate (barely) The first three rounds I was really impressed with how close I grouped the shots....that quickly faded as I've yet to find a combo it likes. In total irony, this thing HATES powerbelts vehemently. like I said, if I had shelled out the clams myself, I'd probably be ticked. First time I've ever been truly disappointed in CVA

BJE80 · February 17, 2015, 09:05 AM

Well that sucks. I was impressed with mine here the first time at the range. But having a range loading system and a field loading system are two different things.

It is all good now. I will put on the jag I want to use and maybe even put some blue thread lock on it if it starts coming loose. I'll be useing Barnes Spitfire Sabots so that is why I want to use their special jag.

BirchOrr · March 1, 2015, 05:00 PM

I finally got around to making a new jag for my son in law today for his CVA rod that came with his rifle. On the Jag from the factory that you took off, has a one quarter and 28 thread. Very tough to replace. I had to drill and tap the one I made to replace it.

I'm just curious, and wondered why you didn't use the other end of the rod that is already tapped with an 8 by 32 female thread to screw your new aligner jag into?

Birch

FrontierGander · March 1, 2015, 10:12 PM

send it to me, i'll show you how it really can shoot

All new guns need to be broke down and cleaned properly. What ever a company covers a gun in, is simply to protect it from rust while im storage. Some guys think they can just clean the bore and its ready. Not so. Take your time and go through it, properly clean it, inspect it. If you read the users manual they actually tell you to go over the rifle and inspect it for damage.

I highly doubt the rifle doesnt like powerbelts. Its just not liking the load you are using or something you are doing/failing to do.

A 250 - 300gr Powerbelt Aerolite with 90-100 grains Blackhorn209 is stupid accurate from all the CVA's I've shot over the years of owning and properly setting up rifles for folks.

BerdanSS · March 2, 2015, 07:24 PM

Frontier

Believe you me sir, I have a new gun "pre-flight" cleaning regiment that would make the most finicky of new gun cleaners scoff

the sights, thimbles and anything other than barrel, breech plug and trigger group was what I didn't do...and dang it all that's what fell off

you'd think at least the rammer thimbles would be tight

I have since tested with power belts of various weights much better since that session. (note: I'm not using the uber high priced polymer tipped)

Loose power:
Alliant Black
777
Pyro. RS
Pioneer FF
Heck, even some swiss holy black

Pellets
Standard pyro
777
Jim shockys 100gr sticks
white hots

No dice with all of that. the best group I got at 75yards (longest range you'll get a shot at a whitetail here) was with a single 50gr 777 pellet and it was about the size of a small cantaloupe

Hell doing that I'll just stick with my 1" barreled sidelock that I can tag a coke can @ 100 yards with a .490 PRB and .15 patch over 80gr of swiss ever time. And the musket cabs are cleaner than 209s to boot

I have had better luck now by using 250gr SSTs, with a tight fitting sabot I buy in bulk from a LGS that has an amazing selection of modern and traditional ML supplies and firearms. I managed to get one three round string the size of a tennis ball POI @ 75 yards using those over 90 grains of loose pioneer. The only two things I haven't tried are Blackhorn and hornady FPBs (had GREAT results with those from a CVA bobcat I sold to another member here.)

FrontierGander · March 2, 2015, 09:10 PM

i've shot a good 10 packages of the whitehots in my cva's with powerbelts, all were within 1 1/2" at 100 yards. Something isn't right with your concept. Old powder even. Lack of cleaning between shots.

BerdanSS · March 2, 2015, 09:19 PM

spitpatch between shots. fairly new powder properly stored. been muzzle loading the way Dad taught me for 13 years now. may be a lemon, dunno. But if it must be meticulously cleaned between every shot and shot off a bench it's worthless to me as a hunter.

Spitpatch about every third shot on my other ML is more than adequate. I'll say this I've used Power belts with great results in that Bobcat and a Austin Halleck 420 that I had. They slide down the barrel RIDICULOUSLY easy on this optima. If I didn't know any better I'd say only the skirt was the only thing contacting the barrel at any point. I've never had the time or the care to slug it.

My cousin has the early non V2 and he was dissatisfied with his as well. While he's new to muzzle loading, he's not new to rifles. He joked with his shooting 100 gr white hot load with PBs, his rifle (if he shot long enough) would cut a perfect 2.5" circle out of the target at 100 yards off a bench without a round ever hitting in the center.

FrontierGander · March 2, 2015, 09:34 PM

i'd be interested in looking at that rifle to be honest.

Ever measure the lands?

BerdanSS · March 2, 2015, 10:20 PM

Funny you should say that I was just going to try to do that.

February 16, 2015, 12:03 PM	#1
BJE80 Member Join Date: February 5, 2013 Posts: 43	Why did they thread lock the palm saver jag on the CVA Optima Rod? Sure was a PITA to get off. I'm shooting Barnes Spitfire Sabots and are using their aligner Jag. If I want to use in the field with the Jag already on I would either have to have that jag sticking way out from the barrel or remove the factor jag. Stupid of them to use thread locker or am I missing something?

February 16, 2015, 07:43 PM	#2
BirchOrr Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2012 Location: Eaton Rapids, MI Posts: 445	They used threadlocker because the Jag after repeated firings will loosen up and get lost in the field. My son in law had this happen and I am currently making him a new jag for his CVA for that very reason. Birch __________________ Black Powder: Not because it is easy, but because it is hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win...

February 16, 2015, 10:20 PM	#4
BerdanSS Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2011 Location: to close to other houses Posts: 1,176	The one on my Optima V2 wasn't. It turned loose when trying to remove the "palm saver" for the first time, which then pliers were required to remove it. Actually, *nothing* was tightened or thread locked. If it hadn't been free and I had paid for it myself, I'd of been a P***** goose. 2nd shot the whole dang rear sight fell off (part of which was lost and I had to wait for a correct replacement ) by the third shot the front thimble was totally knocked loose. And to boot, the supplied palm saver is completely worthless for anything but range use. As you cant carry the rammer in with it installed without a big PITA runaround when you want to load. Now that I basically had to go over every screw in the rifle and tighten/lock it down, it's an okay ML and acceptably accurate (barely) The first three rounds I was really impressed with how close I grouped the shots....that quickly faded as I've yet to find a combo it likes. In total irony, this thing HATES powerbelts vehemently. like I said, if I had shelled out the clams myself, I'd probably be ticked. First time I've ever been truly disappointed in CVA __________________ One day, Men in tall hats will thump their chests and proclaim..."oh, what a great sea of mud we lived in"--The unalterable fate of billy creek .... "Smoke.....it's what's for dinner"

March 1, 2015, 05:00 PM	#6
BirchOrr Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2012 Location: Eaton Rapids, MI Posts: 445	I finally got around to making a new jag for my son in law today for his CVA rod that came with his rifle. On the Jag from the factory that you took off, has a one quarter and 28 thread. Very tough to replace. I had to drill and tap the one I made to replace it. I'm just curious, and wondered why you didn't use the other end of the rod that is already tapped with an 8 by 32 female thread to screw your new aligner jag into? Birch __________________ Black Powder: Not because it is easy, but because it is hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win...

March 1, 2015, 10:12 PM	#7
FrontierGander Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2009 Location: Boncarbo,Colorado Posts: 651	send it to me, i'll show you how it really can shoot All new guns need to be broke down and cleaned properly. What ever a company covers a gun in, is simply to protect it from rust while im storage. Some guys think they can just clean the bore and its ready. Not so. Take your time and go through it, properly clean it, inspect it. If you read the users manual they actually tell you to go over the rifle and inspect it for damage. I highly doubt the rifle doesnt like powerbelts. Its just not liking the load you are using or something you are doing/failing to do. A 250 - 300gr Powerbelt Aerolite with 90-100 grains Blackhorn209 is stupid accurate from all the CVA's I've shot over the years of owning and properly setting up rifles for folks. __________________ https://buckskinsbp.blogspot.com/

February 16, 2015, 08:06 PM	#3
BJE80 Member Join Date: February 5, 2013 Posts: 43	Thanks. Well that makes sense but sucks for the guy that doesn't wantto use that jag.

February 17, 2015, 09:05 AM	#5
BJE80 Member Join Date: February 5, 2013 Posts: 43	Well that sucks. I was impressed with mine here the first time at the range. But having a range loading system and a field loading system are two different things. It is all good now. I will put on the jag I want to use and maybe even put some blue thread lock on it if it starts coming loose. I'll be useing Barnes Spitfire Sabots so that is why I want to use their special jag.

March 2, 2015, 07:24 PM	#8
BerdanSS Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2011 Location: to close to other houses Posts: 1,176	Frontier Believe you me sir, I have a new gun "pre-flight" cleaning regiment that would make the most finicky of new gun cleaners scoff the sights, thimbles and anything other than barrel, breech plug and trigger group was what I didn't do...and dang it all that's what fell off you'd think at least the rammer thimbles would be tight I have since tested with power belts of various weights much better since that session. (note: I'm not using the uber high priced polymer tipped) Loose power: Alliant Black 777 Pyro. RS Pioneer FF Heck, even some swiss holy black Pellets Standard pyro 777 Jim shockys 100gr sticks white hots No dice with all of that. the best group I got at 75yards (longest range you'll get a shot at a whitetail here) was with a single 50gr 777 pellet and it was about the size of a small cantaloupe Hell doing that I'll just stick with my 1" barreled sidelock that I can tag a coke can @ 100 yards with a .490 PRB and .15 patch over 80gr of swiss ever time. And the musket cabs are cleaner than 209s to boot I have had better luck now by using 250gr SSTs, with a tight fitting sabot I buy in bulk from a LGS that has an amazing selection of modern and traditional ML supplies and firearms. I managed to get one three round string the size of a tennis ball POI @ 75 yards using those over 90 grains of loose pioneer. The only two things I haven't tried are Blackhorn and hornady FPBs (had GREAT results with those from a CVA bobcat I sold to another member here.) __________________ One day, Men in tall hats will thump their chests and proclaim..."oh, what a great sea of mud we lived in"--The unalterable fate of billy creek .... "Smoke.....it's what's for dinner" Last edited by BerdanSS; March 2, 2015 at 07:33 PM.

March 2, 2015, 09:10 PM	#9
FrontierGander Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2009 Location: Boncarbo,Colorado Posts: 651	i've shot a good 10 packages of the whitehots in my cva's with powerbelts, all were within 1 1/2" at 100 yards. Something isn't right with your concept. Old powder even. Lack of cleaning between shots. __________________ https://buckskinsbp.blogspot.com/

March 2, 2015, 09:19 PM	#10
BerdanSS Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2011 Location: to close to other houses Posts: 1,176	spitpatch between shots. fairly new powder properly stored. been muzzle loading the way Dad taught me for 13 years now. may be a lemon, dunno. But if it must be meticulously cleaned between every shot and shot off a bench it's worthless to me as a hunter. Spitpatch about every third shot on my other ML is more than adequate. I'll say this I've used Power belts with great results in that Bobcat and a Austin Halleck 420 that I had. They slide down the barrel RIDICULOUSLY easy on this optima. If I didn't know any better I'd say only the skirt was the only thing contacting the barrel at any point. I've never had the time or the care to slug it. My cousin has the early non V2 and he was dissatisfied with his as well. While he's new to muzzle loading, he's not new to rifles. He joked with his shooting 100 gr white hot load with PBs, his rifle (if he shot long enough) would cut a perfect 2.5" circle out of the target at 100 yards off a bench without a round ever hitting in the center. __________________ One day, Men in tall hats will thump their chests and proclaim..."oh, what a great sea of mud we lived in"--The unalterable fate of billy creek .... "Smoke.....it's what's for dinner" Last edited by BerdanSS; March 2, 2015 at 09:29 PM.

March 2, 2015, 09:34 PM	#11
FrontierGander Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2009 Location: Boncarbo,Colorado Posts: 651	i'd be interested in looking at that rifle to be honest. Ever measure the lands? __________________ https://buckskinsbp.blogspot.com/

March 2, 2015, 10:20 PM	#12
BerdanSS Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2011 Location: to close to other houses Posts: 1,176	Funny you should say that I was just going to try to do that. __________________ One day, Men in tall hats will thump their chests and proclaim..."oh, what a great sea of mud we lived in"--The unalterable fate of billy creek .... "Smoke.....it's what's for dinner"