Gun laws broken

Jimboh247 · February 2, 2013, 10:33 PM

Has anyone ever tabulated how many current gun laws were broken during the Newtown massacre?

**Aguila Blanca** · February 2, 2013, 11:52 PM

Just the gun laws? Not that many, I think.

* Guns in a school zone
* Transporting firearms other than to a gunsmith or FFL w/o a permit (CT law)
* Carrying a handgun w/o a permit (CT law)
* Stealing firearms (not sure if that's specifically a gun law, or general felony)
* Unsafe discharge of a firearm w/in 500 yards of an occupied dwelling (CT law)

That's all I can think of. The guns themselves were all legal in CT. CT has an AWB, but it doesn't address magazine capacity (I believe their legislature is trying to "fix" that as we speak).

JimDandy · February 2, 2013, 11:56 PM

I'm sure there are several sentencing addons that would have kicked in for firearms usage, as well as a few somewhat redundant felonies that could have been tacked on just to see how high they can kick up the years due.

Though the problem with your question is that the investigation isn't out there in the public eye yet. so we have no idea what exactly happened.

BoogieMan · February 3, 2013, 08:26 AM

I have added it up myself. But, I heard that 41 laws were broken before a shot was fired.
Only makes sense we need more laws. (where is the sarcasm emoticon?)

Battler · February 3, 2013, 08:34 AM

Devil's advocate here; but the laws listed are a combination of "after-the-fact" and "not really enforceable" with respect to the violent crime scene.

"It's illegal to make and sell guns" is enforceable far in advance of the violent crime scene. It has the secondary effect too of having a society where said offender is less likely to be familiar with or unafraid of firearms and seek to acquire them (or be able to effectively deploy them) in the first place.

**Aguila Blanca** · February 3, 2013, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoogieMan

I have added it up myself. But, I heard that 41 laws were broken before a shot was fired.

I find that very difficult to believe.

The question for this thread was specifically GUN laws, though, and I had already been wondering the same thing ... which is why I was able to put together my little list. Limiting the discussion strictly to GUN laws, I can't come up with anything I didn't mention in my post above.

CT doesn't have a magazine capacity law. The AR-15 and the pistols were bought by the mother in CT so the guns themselves were legal. At 20 the shooter couldn't have bought handgun ammo (legally), but he didn't need to -- he stole his mother's, along with her guns. So that's a felony theft charge, not a "gun" law violation.

I really don't see that many. What am I overlooking?

teeroux · February 3, 2013, 10:22 AM

Quote:

but he didn't need to -- he stole his mother's, along with her guns. So that's a felony theft charge, not a "gun" law violation

I don't know CT law but in LA theft of a firearm is a separate felony. If I'm working a burglary and there is a theft of a firearm involved. The suspect will be charged with the theft of normal items, theft of a firearm, and aggravated burglary(the moment the firearm is taken the felon has armed himself).

Jimboh247 · February 3, 2013, 10:53 AM

I'll expand the question:

What laws were broken during the Newtown massacre?

MedicineBow · February 3, 2013, 11:08 AM

Quote:

I'll expand the question:

What laws were broken during the Newtown massacre?

I'll start.

There are -- so far unconfirmed -- reports that the killer exceeded the speed limit while driving to the school.

(I'm not sure of the point of this.)

**Aguila Blanca** · February 3, 2013, 01:07 PM

Once you go beyond "gun" laws you can increase the count almost to infinity.

"Breaking and entering"? He broke the glass to open the door, that one's a give-away.

"Defiant trespass"? If the principal who confronted him managed to say "You can't come in here!" before he shot her, then his entering after he killed her was defiant trespass.

Does it matter, in comparison to 27 counts of murder? This is a gun board -- why don't we stick to the question as originally posed? How many GUN laws were broken?

JimDandy · February 3, 2013, 01:17 PM

I think I see where they're going... they want to have a list of gun laws, and a list of non-gun laws to show the individual wasn't going to obey any law.. "see just look at these lists...."

I think there are better points to make...

The the study from Texas after they changed their concealed carry laws...
http://www.txchia.org/sturdevant.pdf

Concealed carry permit holders are less likely to commit a crime. Sometimes glaringly so.

Quote:

6.3.3.1 Males
The average male Texan who is 21 years or older is 7.9 times more likely to be arrested for the
violent crimes of murder, rape, robbery, and assault than the average male CHL holder.

And the work we've done with that FBI spreadsheet in other threads on here.

There's an epidemic going on in the Southern states. From the Gulf to Maryland and DC. Most of the states in this area have high homicide rates. In fact the top 5 are DC, Louisiana, Alabama, South Carolina, and Maryland.
3 of those 5 have restrictive gun laws in the form of AWB bans, may issue carry laws or both. There are at least a couple other states in that same 4+ range that are permissive. But those states with permissive laws can absorb those states with permissive laws and high rates, and still average a lower per capita homicide rate than all the states with restrictive laws. And those states include some very low number states like Hawaii.

We have plenty of hard statistic points that show allowing people to legally own guns doesn't lead to higher homicide rates, and in fact show that it lowers the homicide rate.

**Aguila Blanca** · February 3, 2013, 01:26 PM

Shall we include Biblical references?

"Honor thy father and thy mother."

BoogieMan · February 4, 2013, 07:33 AM

@ Aquila Blanca-

Quote:

The question for this thread was specifically GUN laws, though, and I had already been wondering the same thing ... which is why I was able to put together my little list. Limiting the discussion strictly to GUN laws, I can't come up with anything I didn't mention in my post above.

Its a felony in NJ (not sure of CT) to be in possession of a firearm for unlawful purpose.
The main point I am trying to make is that this animal broke many laws before he ever took a shot. If there was another law in place would it make sense to think that would be the one to stop him?

February 2, 2013, 10:33 PM	#1
Jimboh247 Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2012 Location: Lexington, NC Posts: 102	Gun laws broken Has anyone ever tabulated how many current gun laws were broken during the Newtown massacre?

February 3, 2013, 08:26 AM	#4
BoogieMan Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2012 Location: South Jersey Posts: 2,217	I have added it up myself. But, I heard that 41 laws were broken before a shot was fired. Only makes sense we need more laws. (where is the sarcasm emoticon?) __________________ Concentrated power is not rendered harmless by the good intentions of those who create it. Milton Freidman "If you find yourself in a fair fight,,, Your tactics suck"- Unknown

February 2, 2013, 11:52 PM	#2
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,459	Just the gun laws? Not that many, I think. * Guns in a school zone * Transporting firearms other than to a gunsmith or FFL w/o a permit (CT law) * Carrying a handgun w/o a permit (CT law) * Stealing firearms (not sure if that's specifically a gun law, or general felony) * Unsafe discharge of a firearm w/in 500 yards of an occupied dwelling (CT law) That's all I can think of. The guns themselves were all legal in CT. CT has an AWB, but it doesn't address magazine capacity (I believe their legislature is trying to "fix" that as we speak).

February 2, 2013, 11:56 PM	#3
JimDandy Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2012 Posts: 2,556	I'm sure there are several sentencing addons that would have kicked in for firearms usage, as well as a few somewhat redundant felonies that could have been tacked on just to see how high they can kick up the years due. Though the problem with your question is that the investigation isn't out there in the public eye yet. so we have no idea what exactly happened.

February 3, 2013, 08:34 AM	#5
Battler Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2000 Posts: 1,185	Devil's advocate here; but the laws listed are a combination of "after-the-fact" and "not really enforceable" with respect to the violent crime scene. "It's illegal to make and sell guns" is enforceable far in advance of the violent crime scene. It has the secondary effect too of having a society where said offender is less likely to be familiar with or unafraid of firearms and seek to acquire them (or be able to effectively deploy them) in the first place.

February 3, 2013, 10:53 AM	#8
Jimboh247 Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2012 Location: Lexington, NC Posts: 102	I'll expand the question: What laws were broken during the Newtown massacre?

February 3, 2013, 01:07 PM	#10
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,459	Once you go beyond "gun" laws you can increase the count almost to infinity. "Breaking and entering"? He broke the glass to open the door, that one's a give-away. "Defiant trespass"? If the principal who confronted him managed to say "You can't come in here!" before he shot her, then his entering after he killed her was defiant trespass. Does it matter, in comparison to 27 counts of murder? This is a gun board -- why don't we stick to the question as originally posed? How many GUN laws were broken?

February 3, 2013, 01:26 PM	#12
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,459	Shall we include Biblical references? "Honor thy father and thy mother."