The new 28ga. Judge - Page 2

p99guy · January 27, 2011, 12:07 PM

gunsamerica blog is reporting this morning that ATF has flip flopped again and its back to being allowed as a over the counter revolver

precision_shooter · January 28, 2011, 08:56 AM

Here is a question for ya,

If the 28 guage judge would not be legal becuase of the rifled barrel being over .50", then why is a 20 or 12 guage shotgun legal with a rifled slug barrel that easily measure over .60"? Rifling is Rifling, and form the earlier posts, anything over .50" that is rifled is classified as a destructive device....

twobit · January 28, 2011, 09:29 AM

The never ending courtroom saga of the Judge (Taurus) vs. the jury (BATF). Has all the makings of a new reality show

(based on the great movie"My Cousin Vinny" starring the late Fred Gwynn of Herman Munster fame).

Cousin Vinny: You see your Honor these two yoots were bird hunting in Jersey with the 28 gauge Taurus...

Fred Gwynn: Councilor, just what is a yoot?

Vinny:These two (points at defendants) you know yoots!

Gwynn: Oh, yooooths! carry on.

Vinny: Anyhows, these two (PAUSE) yoooooths were bird hunting and were jumped by these wiseguys, so's they whip out their 28 ga. shotgun, er, pistol, er shotgun.....oh what the...., their Blaster!, and defended themselves against these evildoers.

Gwynn: Just what kind of birds am I to believe there are to be in Jersey?

Vinny: Pigeons, your Honor, nasty filthy left wing pigeons!

Gwynn: Why didn't you say that in the first place, Not Guilty! That was the issue before this court, wasn't it?

Sarge · January 28, 2011, 09:44 AM

This is another one of those unexplainable marketing efforts which to me, defies logic.

Still, the nominal bore diameter of the 28 gauge is .550 inches... and I could have me some fun with brass cases, 425 grain .54 cal Hornady Great Plains bullets and healthy doses of black powder. Ought to be just the ticket for rabbits in Momma's garden

Jim Watson · January 28, 2011, 10:23 AM

Hamilton Bowen converted a Redhawk to .577 Tranter.
He said it was a fun gun but the paperwork hassle made it too much trouble to do on a regular basis.

kozak6 · January 28, 2011, 10:36 AM

Quote:

If the 28 guage judge would not be legal becuase of the rifled barrel being over .50", then why is a 20 or 12 guage shotgun legal with a rifled slug barrel that easily measure over .60"? Rifling is Rifling, and form the earlier posts, anything over .50" that is rifled is classified as a destructive device....

It can lawfully be over .50 cal if it is suitable for sporting purposes.

We also haven't established that the 28 gauge Judge is over .50, as that clearly puts it into murky territory. 28 gauge, or .55 cal, isn't that far from .50 cal. Chances are, the barrel diameter funnels down to a hair under .50 just to stay on the safe side.

oneounceload · January 28, 2011, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Here is a question for ya,

If the 28 guage judge would not be legal becuase of the rifled barrel being over .50", then why is a 20 or 12 guage shotgun legal with a rifled slug barrel that easily measure over .60"? Rifling is Rifling, and form the earlier posts, anything over .50" that is rifled is classified as a destructive device....

Because certain exemptions were granted for BP guns and sporting shotguns and dangerous game rifles

Why this isn't classified an AOW, I still don't get - it isn't a SBS as it has no shoulder stock, it is a handgun for which there is no handgun ammunition available.......

Webleymkv · January 28, 2011, 11:21 AM

Quote:

If the 28 guage judge would not be legal becuase of the rifled barrel being over .50", then why is a 20 or 12 guage shotgun legal with a rifled slug barrel that easily measure over .60"? Rifling is Rifling, and form the earlier posts, anything over .50" that is rifled is classified as a destructive device....

Anything with a rifled barrel over .50" is a destructive device unless the ATF grants a "sporting purpose" exemption. Rifled-barrel shotguns and certain African-game cartridges like .577, .600, and .700 Nitro have been granted sporting purpose exemptions. The ATF does not seem, however, overly willing to grant such exemptions to handguns. The .50 AE Desert Eagle was delayed because of confusion over the bore diameter.

Poodleshooter · January 28, 2011, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Why this isn't classified an AOW, I still don't get - it isn't a SBS as it has no shoulder stock, it is a handgun for which there is no handgun ammunition available.......

AOWs are specifically stated in the law as not having rifling (which the Raging Judge has). The only exception to this definition is for pistols with a vertical forend firing grip added.

And yes, all it would take is a decision from the Treasury Secretary to make every shotgun over .410 into a destructive device. Shotguns over .5" bore are all DD's by virtue of bore diameter,but are granted exemption via the sporting purposes clause which allows exemptions for shotguns (but does not require them).
Note: A DD does not need rifling to be a DD.

Ridge_Runner_5 · January 28, 2011, 06:07 PM

The ATF announced this past Monday that they are blocking the new Judge because Taurus lied on the import application, labeling it a revolver instead of a SBS...

kozak6 · January 30, 2011, 07:39 PM

Do you have an authoritative link?

garyhan · January 31, 2011, 05:06 AM

The death of the Raging Judge was pure internet rumor. ATF approved and good to go. http://www.americanrifleman.org/blog...g-judge-rumors.

gary

gyvel · January 31, 2011, 05:17 AM

The bottom line here is: Who needs it? Just another stupid marketing ploy.

But then, hey!, we're the nation that buys pet rocks, Elvis collector plates, beenie babies and Lincoln pickup trucks.

everragenepa · January 31, 2011, 05:31 AM

Quote:

The bottom line here is: Who needs it? Just another stupid marketing ploy.

Everyone a firearm is a firearm and this is the United States of America the more the merrier. I dont care that is something that dont grab my interest it will somones and that someone might just be a new firearm owner.

I also HATE that everyone just accepts the "sporting purpose" game. Were in 2nd admendment does it say anything about sporting purpose.

natman · January 31, 2011, 12:42 PM

Quote:

I also HATE that everyone just accepts the "sporting purpose" game. Were in 2nd admendment does it say anything about sporting purpose.

Nowhere.

However, the Gun Control Act of 1968 bans the IMPORT, let me repeat, IMPORT of ALL firearms into the US unless the BATF decides that it has "sporting purpose".

If it's made in the US, then it's more open. If it's IMPORTED, then the BATF gets to decide if it's sporting.

Rob62 · February 2, 2011, 12:02 AM

Threat tagged. Cause I also don't get how this can be imported.

On a side note. If this could be sold as a "regular" pistol firing conventional 28ga shot shells - it might do alright sales wise here in the USA.

PTK · February 2, 2011, 12:22 AM

I simply do not believe the American Rifleman link, as the 28ga Judge is clearly over .5" bore... BATFE wouldn't issue an exemption for a shotgun pistol, there is no precedent.

Skans · February 2, 2011, 09:39 AM

I've got a question about this Taurus Judge .28 gauge. Assuming that it was a smoothbore, and assuming that legality was not an issue, is there really that much difference between it and a .410 gauge in a pistol format? Would it make a bigger "boom", a bigger hole or a more devistating impact?

Poodleshooter · February 2, 2011, 11:36 AM

Quote:

I've got a question about this Taurus Judge .28 gauge. Assuming that it was a smoothbore, and assuming that legality was not an issue, is there really that much difference between it and a .410 gauge in a pistol format? Would it make a bigger "boom", a bigger hole or a more devistating impact

If it was a smoothbore, it would be an AOW or SBS most likely. Its only chance for Title I status is with a rifled barrel and getting sporting purpose exemption from the DD definition.
Anyway, assuming it's an easily procurable Title I weapon, it would lose the .410 Judge's ability to use .45 Colt,which is the most effective load that pistol has. Unlike .410,there are no slugs or buckshot made for the 28ga that I know of. So users would have to use the few 28ga bird shot loads available, making the weapon even more useless for self defense.
It is pure marketing genius!
I for one look forward to more unique Taurus self defense products, like "The Bailiff", a unique 17 pound, 50 shot .22 short pepperbox, and "The Juror" a 10ga, 2 shot, lightweight side by side derringer.

TheGoldenState · February 2, 2011, 11:54 AM

Quote:

I for one look forward to more unique Taurus self defense products, like "The Bailiff", a unique 17 pound, 50 shot .22 short pepperbox, and "The Juror" a 10ga, 2 shot, lightweight side by side derringer.

Skans · February 2, 2011, 12:42 PM

Quote:

"The Juror" a 10ga, 2 shot, lightweight side by side derringer.

Oh, that was funny!

:

abelacres · February 2, 2011, 12:54 PM

Quote:

"The Juror" a 10ga, 2 shot, lightweight side by side derringer.

I'd buy 2 of those.

Skans · February 2, 2011, 12:56 PM

Quote:

I'd buy 2 of those.

Yeah, but would you shoot them? For that matter, has anyone ever seen a short barrel 10 gauge?

Follow up: Well, I had to go and google SBS 10 gauge, and of course I found one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypnqXJN6H2k

January 27, 2011, 12:07 PM	#26
p99guy Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2004 Location: Haslet,Texas(DFW area) Posts: 1,506	gunsamerica blog is reporting this morning that ATF has flip flopped again and its back to being allowed as a over the counter revolver __________________ Lighten up Francis!.....;Actor Warren Oats, in the movie "Stripes"

January 28, 2011, 08:56 AM	#27
precision_shooter Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: DFW, Texas Posts: 2,475	Here is a question for ya, If the 28 guage judge would not be legal becuase of the rifled barrel being over .50", then why is a 20 or 12 guage shotgun legal with a rifled slug barrel that easily measure over .60"? Rifling is Rifling, and form the earlier posts, anything over .50" that is rifled is classified as a destructive device.... __________________ "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." - Thomas Jefferson, 1776

January 28, 2011, 09:29 AM	#28
twobit Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2010 Location: Coyote Creak, SW Texas Posts: 597	The never ending courtroom saga of the Judge (Taurus) vs. the jury (BATF). Has all the makings of a new reality show (based on the great movie"My Cousin Vinny" starring the late Fred Gwynn of Herman Munster fame). Cousin Vinny: You see your Honor these two yoots were bird hunting in Jersey with the 28 gauge Taurus... Fred Gwynn: Councilor, just what is a yoot? Vinny:These two (points at defendants) you know yoots! Gwynn: Oh, yooooths! carry on. Vinny: Anyhows, these two (PAUSE) yoooooths were bird hunting and were jumped by these wiseguys, so's they whip out their 28 ga. shotgun, er, pistol, er shotgun.....oh what the...., their Blaster!, and defended themselves against these evildoers. Gwynn: Just what kind of birds am I to believe there are to be in Jersey? Vinny: Pigeons, your Honor, nasty filthy left wing pigeons! Gwynn: Why didn't you say that in the first place, Not Guilty! That was the issue before this court, wasn't it? __________________ Twobit, Strive to live up to the opinion that your dog has of you.

January 28, 2011, 09:44 AM	#29
Sarge Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2002 Location: MO Posts: 5,457	This is another one of those unexplainable marketing efforts which to me, defies logic. Still, the nominal bore diameter of the 28 gauge is .550 inches... and I could have me some fun with brass cases, 425 grain .54 cal Hornady Great Plains bullets and healthy doses of black powder. Ought to be just the ticket for rabbits in Momma's garden __________________ People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice.

February 2, 2011, 12:02 AM	#41
Rob62 Senior Member Join Date: June 28, 1999 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 560	Threat tagged. Cause I also don't get how this can be imported. On a side note. If this could be sold as a "regular" pistol firing conventional 28ga shot shells - it might do alright sales wise here in the USA. __________________ NRA & NAHC Life Member

January 28, 2011, 10:23 AM	#30
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	Hamilton Bowen converted a Redhawk to .577 Tranter. He said it was a fun gun but the paperwork hassle made it too much trouble to do on a regular basis.

January 28, 2011, 06:07 PM	#35
Ridge_Runner_5 Senior Member Join Date: February 8, 2008 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 1,925	The ATF announced this past Monday that they are blocking the new Judge because Taurus lied on the import application, labeling it a revolver instead of a SBS...

January 30, 2011, 07:39 PM	#36
kozak6 Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2005 Location: AZ Posts: 3,113	Do you have an authoritative link?

January 31, 2011, 05:06 AM	#37
garyhan Member Join Date: June 22, 2008 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 90	The death of the Raging Judge was pure internet rumor. ATF approved and good to go. http://www.americanrifleman.org/blog...g-judge-rumors. gary

January 31, 2011, 05:17 AM	#38
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 7,172	The bottom line here is: Who needs it? Just another stupid marketing ploy. But then, hey!, we're the nation that buys pet rocks, Elvis collector plates, beenie babies and Lincoln pickup trucks.

February 2, 2011, 12:22 AM	#42
PTK Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2008 Posts: 442	I simply do not believe the American Rifleman link, as the 28ga Judge is clearly over .5" bore... BATFE wouldn't issue an exemption for a shotgun pistol, there is no precedent.

February 2, 2011, 09:39 AM	#43
Skans Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Posts: 11,132	I've got a question about this Taurus Judge .28 gauge. Assuming that it was a smoothbore, and assuming that legality was not an issue, is there really that much difference between it and a .410 gauge in a pistol format? Would it make a bigger "boom", a bigger hole or a more devistating impact?