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Old March 2, 2005, 11:00 PM   #1
m0ntels
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Lee Rifle Sizing Die Question

I just started loading rifle carts and I'm doing the 7.5 Swiss. I have the Lee PaceSetter die set, and new Graf's brass. I ran the brass through the sizer/expander as per the instructions. I loaded up 20 rounds, and they all chambered and shot fine. The issue I'm having is that the expander doesnt open up the case mouth enough that the bullet can sit in it on its own. I have to hold it in place while I work the press or else it just falls out. Is it supposed to be that tight, do I have to adjust something, or is my die defective? It doesnt shave the jacket or anything, it just barely expands at all.

Randy
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Old March 2, 2005, 11:38 PM   #2
CaptainRazor
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Your dies are fine, you're doing it the right way.
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Old March 2, 2005, 11:43 PM   #3
rwilson452
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Dies

Rifle dies DO NOT expand the neck. If you using a flat based bullet you will need to hold it in place. If your using a boat tail bullet you will likely need to hold it in place. Pistol cases are a whole different ball game. Pistol cases also require a crimp. Most of my rifles are bolt action, I don't crimp my rifle ammo except for my M1.
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Old March 3, 2005, 12:10 AM   #4
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Then what in the world is this "expander ball" I've heard so much about? LOL

I've heard you shouldnt have to crimp most rifle bullets besides for autos and levers. The bullets I'm using are flat based, and actually do seat properly centered on the cannelure coincidentally. They're 165gr Rem Core-Lokt if anyone wants to know. Glad to know I'm doing things correctly.

Randy
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Old March 3, 2005, 01:01 AM   #5
Leftoverdj
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Montels, ideally, after the case has been sized and the expander ball has been drawn back through the neck, the inside of the case neck is a few thous smaller than the bullet. You need the neck tension to hold the bullet in place during handling. If the cases are properly chamfered and/or the bullet base is rounded or beveled, the bullet will expand the neck as it is seated.

Cast bullet shooters flare the case mouth all the time. We must because the hard brass will shave the much softer lead alloy before the neck expands. If you value being able to seat your bullet slightly before it goes into the seater die, you might buy a gadget called the Lyman M die. It's an extra step in reloading, but it'll do what you want and might get your bullet seated a little straighter.
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Old March 3, 2005, 04:59 PM   #6
G56
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Quote:
Then what in the world is this "expander ball" I've heard so much about? LOL
The purpose of the expander ball is to ensure you have a consistent dimension inside the case neck, when you resize brass the resizing die sizes the outside of the neck to a consistent diameter, but since brass cases don't always have a consistent thickness of the brass in the neck, the expander ball resizes the inside of the neck to a consistent size.

It is perfectly normal to have to guide the bullet up into the seating die.
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Old March 4, 2005, 10:48 PM   #7
m0ntels
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In looking at the M dies, I naturally came acorss the Lee expander die with removable inserts. Anyone use this thing? I do like cast bullets even though I dont make my own (yet...so many dang parts to this hobby if I did em all I wouldnt have time to shoot!) and it seems that one of those dies would be almost a neccessity.

I was reading about the M dies some on the Bear Tooth Bullet forum and it talked about the die body being universal and therefor could allow the brass to be pushed off to the weakest side, affecting the round being concentric.

That also got me thinking, and I dont have my dies here to look at right now, but could the expander be removed and knurled ever so slightly to make something similar to a M die, but in the proper sized die body? If that would work, I'd think it'd make a very concentric case.

Randy
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Old March 5, 2005, 02:26 AM   #8
dromia
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Hi

sounds to me as though you are getting round to designing the Lee Collet neck sizing dies.

I've given up on neck expander balls now don't use them, my brass gets worked less and the targets don't seem to notice the fact that the cases haven't been neck expanded.

I'm not a big Lee fan but seriously rate the Collets dies if you can get away with neck sizing and can be bothered to batch your cases to each rifle.

As I mainly shoot .303" therefore neck sizing is a must for case life as well as improved accuracy.

The Lee neck expander die is good but cannot be compared against the "M" die really as they do different functions, the Lee just flares the case mouth whereas the "M" die sets a slightly larger diameter section in the case mouth before flaring, this keeps the bullet centred more in the case. I actually just use this part of the "M" die finding case mouth expansion bit not necessary.

When looking at kit you must always temper the theoretical problems with the reality of what it delivers, I am sure that there are many imperfections in lots of my kit but whether that actually noticably effects the accuracy of my rfiles is debateable.

My view on kit is based on what it does, not of what it might do.

Still its fun to speculate and discuss.

Sans Peur
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Old March 6, 2005, 07:43 PM   #9
Mike Irwin
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Hint for you...

Chamfer the inside of the case mouth slightly with a chamfering tool.

This helps.
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Old March 6, 2005, 09:24 PM   #10
drinks
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Neck

I shoot almost all cast bullets, so I have the Lee universal expanding die, works fine on cast bullets, but I also use the inside and outside deburring tool after resizing even if I do not trim the cases, makes the occasional jacketed bullets seat easier and without any scraping.
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