Proper storage of firearms

Photon Guy · July 26, 2016, 10:02 PM

It goes without saying that Im pro gun but I do believe there should be some regulations and measures taken. Holding people accountable who knowingly allow guns to fall into the wrong hands might not be a bad idea. Here is an article on this.
https://www.thetrace.org/2015/10/sean-s ... n-storage/

TheGunGeek · July 26, 2016, 10:48 PM

Even without a special law, I believe you could already be charged. As stated in the article its up to local law enforcement and the DA on whether to pursue charges.

The first thing I bought was a high quality pistol safe. It was not only to protect against access by kids, but also against theft, or its use against me by a home burglar. It can still be accessed in seconds if needed, and no one can break into my house quickly or unnoticed. It's in the best interest of all of us when owners are responsible.

kilimanjaro · July 27, 2016, 12:40 AM

Accountability for gun storage is fine when considering household members and guests, but shouldn't there be some stiff increases in penalties for theft of a firearm, minor in possession, that kind of thing, as well?

I can see kind a slippery slope relating to storage. Who is liable for misuse of a firearm not properly stored, when the misuser stole it? Who is going to verify your firearms are properly stored? What is going to prevent a completely different storage requirement coming out of a legislature every year that means a new safe needs purchased? Lots of problems can arise when an attempt is made to prevent an unknown fraction of the 100 or 200 accidental shootings in any given year through legislation instead of education.

turtlehead · July 27, 2016, 01:56 AM

I went to a friend's house one day and there was a wood block on the kitchen counter with an arsenal of knives in it. And I'm talking about full size knives that were like 12 inches long.

This guy has kids, too. Little kids. Can you believe that?

And right there on the same counter were car keys. Freaking car keys right out in the open!

I don't even know what to say.

**44 AMP** · July 27, 2016, 02:25 AM

Forget, for a moment, about other people and their tragedies. Consider this,

Do you REALLY want the government to add another law about how you must store your personal property in your home???

One where compliance inspections are the only way to prove you are obeying the law. One where, with the stroke of a pen in the legislature (or worse in the regulations of the agency charged with ensuring your compliance), so that $800 or $1200 safe you bought last year suddenly becomes non-compliant (and nearly worthless) because some elected fool decided that a two hour resistance rating wasn't good enough and 2.5hrs was?

Or another year down the road when they say 3.5hrs is the new required standard to comply with the law??

The point here is that ALL the requirements they will come up with will be completely arbitrary, and changeable, virtually at their whim.

Quote:

shouldn't there be some stiff increases in penalties for theft of a firearm,

Sure, but the people who make and enforce laws don't seem to want that, by their actions, if not their public words. And I don't know if stiffer penalties would make the kind of difference we need made.

Penalties, (fines, jail sentence) only apply AFTER conviction. Which, often doesn't happen. Many times gun charges are used as bargaining chips, and not applied, so penalties from gun laws don't get applied.

Many, many times, the people charged get released and never show back up for arraignment in court. And the thieves are still out there, to steal again, and again until they get caught again...

I'm ABSOLUTELY for safe storage, but INVITING the government to mandate what that is, is not the right thing to do. No matter how many "children" that statistics predict will be "saved".

Be assured of this, if they DO make some kind of "standards" the law, they will not stop at that. No matter what is chosen, over time, someone will question if it is safe enough, and compliance requirements will be tightened. Its the nature of bureaucracy, historically proven for centuries now...

TMD · July 27, 2016, 03:11 AM

Just what I always wanted, more government regulations. Not!!!

**Aguila Blanca** · July 27, 2016, 06:11 AM

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

A law telling me how I may or may not store (i.e. "keep") my arms is an infringement.

'Nuff said.

Photon Guy · July 27, 2016, 07:25 AM

Turtlehead made a good point. Making guns readily available to children is no different than making knives and car keys available to children. Something to tell the anti gun crowd.

Photon Guy · July 27, 2016, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Do you REALLY want the government to add another law about how you must store your personal property in your home???

There already is a law regarding proper storage of firearms with children. If you don't like it perhaps you should lobby against it.

FITASC · July 27, 2016, 07:40 AM

Quote:

I do believe there should be some regulations

regulation = law = loss of freedom

We have too many now. ...

Quote:

There already is a law regarding proper storage of firearms with children.

And what law is that? I kept a loaded 357 in the nightstand for the 20 years I had kids growing up in the house. They knew where it was, they shot it to see what it could do; I never had any issue.

Jleonard · July 27, 2016, 08:46 AM

Quote:

And right there on the same counter were car keys. Freaking car keys right out in the open!

Sorry I fail to see that as an issue.

Jeff H · July 27, 2016, 09:01 AM

Quote:

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

A law telling me how I may or may not store (i.e. "keep") my arms is an infringement.

'Nuff said.

Pssst, hey bud; They have been infringing on that for years and will continue to do so if we let them. It is for the CHILDREN!!!!!

Quote:

Turtlehead made a good point. Making guns readily available to children is no different than making knives and car keys available to children. Something to tell the anti gun crowd.

They won't listen though. It is for the CHILDREN!!!

Donate/join the NRA and keep up the fight. I have this sinking feeling that we should brace ourselves for some new restrictions coming after the election .

laytonj1 · July 27, 2016, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Sorry I fail to see that as an issue

But I clearly see his point.

Jim

FAS1 · July 27, 2016, 09:32 AM

Laws imposing criminal liability when a child gains access to a firearm as a result of negligent firearm storage are in place in at least half the states. This is the right approach as far as I am concerned.

One problem with these laws is that when a child get killed by the negligence of the parent, charges are often not filed. The loss of a child is enough punishment in the eyes of many people. There needs to be more teeth in the existing law to make people really think about the consequences of their action or in this case inaction.

On the other hand, the world is full of irresponsible people and no law will make a difference to those that think the world revolves around them. Thankfully, accidental child deaths from guns is at an all time low, partially due to all the choices available today for quick access, but safe storage.

Overall we are doing a good job and I think today's numbers haven't changed much from the stats below, contrary to what the media (Gun Control Lobby) focuses on.

K_Mac · July 27, 2016, 10:00 AM

One of the problems with this sort of law is where it leads. I had a long, and at times heated, discussion concerning this with an anti-gun advocate not long ago. I explained to her that protecting children was as important to me and other responsible gun owners as it was to Her. Her idea of safe was unloaded guns locked in one spot, and ammunition locked up in another. When I explained that this was not an acceptable solution if self-defense was the goal, she dismissed that as unreasonable. What she didn't directly say was she thought guns for self-defense was an idea that really wasn't reasonable. Restrictions on how and where guns are stored is for the most part just another attempt ultimately remove them entirely.

**44 AMP** · July 27, 2016, 10:27 AM

Quote:

One of the problems with this sort of law is where it leads.

Where it leads is quite obvious, if you bother to look. It leads to the UK style system, which the gun banners would love to see implemented in the US.

It leads to licenses/certificates/permits = FEES, for approval. It leads to "compliance inspections (yearly? MONTHLY???) = WARRANTLESS SEARCHES

Ultimately, it leads to government officials deciding that there is NO safe storage at home, and you will be required to store all your licensed guns at designated "approved" locations, such as a registered, inspected, approved gun club or a POLICE station, or similar location.

From there, its just a tiny step to requiring a permit (and a fee), and valid reason for you to be allowed to retrieve YOUR OWN PROPERTY. And, gee, I suppose a background check EACH AND EVERY TIME you apply for PERMISSION to possess your own property.

And finally, some valid sounding reason to deny you your property. Sorry, no funds in the budget to pay an officer to run the checks and unlock the vault. Come back next fiscal year....

Or even "We don't have time for that....."

I would point out that the DC law overturned in Heller vs DC had safe storage provisions, which included making it illegal to have a handgun loaded or even FULLY ASSEMBLED in your home, inside the District of Columbia.

Don't think it can't or won't happen here, it ALREADY HAS, and do note that the DC law stood for over a decade before our legal system finally reviewed it, AND that it was overturned on a 5-4 decision. ONE VOTE, by ONE JUSTICE was all that overturned that law.

Like vampires, once you invite the government in, ONCE, they can come back whenever they feel like, and take a bigger bite of our blood every time they do.

It's NOT a "slippery slope", it's the trapdoor under the gallows noose ...

lefteye · July 27, 2016, 11:22 AM

The loss of child due to a parent's negligence is more punishment than a state or federal government can lawfully impose on that parent.

armedleo · July 27, 2016, 12:13 PM

I'm with turtlehead. From now on when I get home I'm leaving my loaded pistol (one chambered, of course) on the kitchen counter next to my car keys and steak knives.

turtlehead · July 27, 2016, 12:48 PM

That's the spirit.

kmw1954 · July 27, 2016, 12:50 PM

One more regulation to protect us from ourselves? Nanny, Nanny, Nanny!

How many more laws and regulations do we need before more than 50% of the population becomes convicted felons and can no longer own firearms because we need to be protected from ourselves?

The human race is a dangerous place to live.

As a child I grew up on a farm, very dangerous place, with lots of machinery that could maim or kill you. I was taught to respect that machinery. Maybe we need more education on respecting firearms! Not more regulation.

After all we are supposed to be the most intelligent species on the planet.

armedleo · July 27, 2016, 01:01 PM

I read that about being the most intelligent...

When I was a mere lad my father would always say about Americans that "We're the stupidest smart people on earth." I never really understood what he meant. I do now.

**Aguila Blanca** · July 27, 2016, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lefteye

The loss of child due to a parent's negligence is more punishment than a state or federal government can lawfully impose on that parent.

The problem is that it could be some other parents' child.

A number of years ago a child was killed in the town next to mine. The dead child was a visitor in the home of a police sergeant. The officer's son and his friend found the officer's service weapon and took it out to look at it. "It went off."

The crux of the issue, IMHO, is that too many parents today are terrified of guns and think that NOT teaching theit kids how guns work will protect them. Obviously, that doesn't work. I'm a senior citizen. I grew up in a farming community with my grandparents and two sets of aunts, uncles, and cousins all living within a half mile of our house. There were guns in all the houses, abd they weren't locked up. We kids were taught that guns can kill people, and that we should never take them out and play with them without adult supervision. So ... we didn't take them out to play with, and nobody was killed or injured.

This is the purpose and focus of the NRA's Eddie Eagle program. IMHO Eddie Eagle should be mandatory in all elementary schools.

FITASC · July 27, 2016, 02:12 PM

Quote:

IMHO Eddie Eagle should be mandatory in all elementary schools.

and middle schools, high schools and parenting classes............

Photon Guy · July 27, 2016, 02:36 PM

Quote:

And what law is that? I kept a loaded 357 in the nightstand for the 20 years I had kids growing up in the house. They knew where it was, they shot it to see what it could do; I never had any issue.

Here is a video where the law is briefly described.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skhfUfJD7LA

Bartholomew Roberts · July 27, 2016, 02:37 PM

I may have missed it being mentioned; but "The Trace" is owned by Bloomberg and its sole purpose is to propagandize for gun control.

As for storage laws, I am all for responsibly storing firearms. However, I fail to see how storage laws are going to be effective that way. Is the guy who leaves his loaded pistol in a cigar box on the coffee table where his three-year old can reach it suddenly going to change his ways because it is now illegal to do that? Color me skeptical.

Instead I expect the law to be used to make it more difficult for peaceable, responsible folk to own a firearm. Time and time again, we get these proposals for "reasonable" gun laws - like California's "safety certification" - which requires every different color of gun to be recertified and tested and carves out a special exemption for law enforcement to carry and use guns the state has deemed "unsafe" for citizens.

So the first question to ask is "How is it going to be abused by anti gun fanatics?" - because it will be. Once you know the cost, you can ask yourself whether the benefit (in this case saving the children of whatever number of people don't care about children getting shot but respect storage laws) is worth it.

July 26, 2016, 10:02 PM	#1
Photon Guy Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2015 Posts: 291	Proper storage of firearms It goes without saying that Im pro gun but I do believe there should be some regulations and measures taken. Holding people accountable who knowingly allow guns to fall into the wrong hands might not be a bad idea. Here is an article on this. https://www.thetrace.org/2015/10/sean-s ... n-storage/

July 27, 2016, 09:32 AM	#14
FAS1 Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 2010 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 541	Laws imposing criminal liability when a child gains access to a firearm as a result of negligent firearm storage are in place in at least half the states. This is the right approach as far as I am concerned. One problem with these laws is that when a child get killed by the negligence of the parent, charges are often not filed. The loss of a child is enough punishment in the eyes of many people. There needs to be more teeth in the existing law to make people really think about the consequences of their action or in this case inaction. On the other hand, the world is full of irresponsible people and no law will make a difference to those that think the world revolves around them. Thankfully, accidental child deaths from guns is at an all time low, partially due to all the choices available today for quick access, but safe storage. Overall we are doing a good job and I think today's numbers haven't changed much from the stats below, contrary to what the media (Gun Control Lobby) focuses on. __________________ *Glenn* *FAS1 SAFE*

July 27, 2016, 10:00 AM	#15
K_Mac Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2010 Posts: 1,850	One of the problems with this sort of law is where it leads. I had a long, and at times heated, discussion concerning this with an anti-gun advocate not long ago. I explained to her that protecting children was as important to me and other responsible gun owners as it was to Her. Her idea of safe was unloaded guns locked in one spot, and ammunition locked up in another. When I explained that this was not an acceptable solution if self-defense was the goal, she dismissed that as unreasonable. What she didn't directly say was she thought guns for self-defense was an idea that really wasn't reasonable. Restrictions on how and where guns are stored is for the most part just another attempt ultimately remove them entirely. __________________ "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Benjamin Franklin

July 27, 2016, 11:22 AM	#17
lefteye Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2006 Posts: 1,433	The loss of child due to a parent's negligence is more punishment than a state or federal government can lawfully impose on that parent. __________________ Vietnam Veteran ('69-'70) NRA Life Member RMEF Life Member

July 26, 2016, 10:48 PM	#2
TheGunGeek Senior Member Join Date: July 15, 2016 Location: Florida Posts: 182	Even without a special law, I believe you could already be charged. As stated in the article its up to local law enforcement and the DA on whether to pursue charges. The first thing I bought was a high quality pistol safe. It was not only to protect against access by kids, but also against theft, or its use against me by a home burglar. It can still be accessed in seconds if needed, and no one can break into my house quickly or unnoticed. It's in the best interest of all of us when owners are responsible.

July 27, 2016, 12:40 AM	#3
kilimanjaro Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2009 Posts: 3,963	Accountability for gun storage is fine when considering household members and guests, but shouldn't there be some stiff increases in penalties for theft of a firearm, minor in possession, that kind of thing, as well? I can see kind a slippery slope relating to storage. Who is liable for misuse of a firearm not properly stored, when the misuser stole it? Who is going to verify your firearms are properly stored? What is going to prevent a completely different storage requirement coming out of a legislature every year that means a new safe needs purchased? Lots of problems can arise when an attempt is made to prevent an unknown fraction of the 100 or 200 accidental shootings in any given year through legislation instead of education.

July 27, 2016, 01:56 AM	#4
turtlehead Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2015 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,203	I went to a friend's house one day and there was a wood block on the kitchen counter with an arsenal of knives in it. And I'm talking about full size knives that were like 12 inches long. This guy has kids, too. Little kids. Can you believe that? And right there on the same counter were car keys. Freaking car keys right out in the open! I don't even know what to say.

July 27, 2016, 03:11 AM	#6
TMD Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 2011 Posts: 1,293	Just what I always wanted, more government regulations. Not!!!

July 27, 2016, 06:11 AM	#7
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,459	"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." A law telling me how I may or may not store (i.e. "keep") my arms is an infringement. 'Nuff said.

July 27, 2016, 07:25 AM	#8
Photon Guy Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2015 Posts: 291	Turtlehead made a good point. Making guns readily available to children is no different than making knives and car keys available to children. Something to tell the anti gun crowd.

July 27, 2016, 12:13 PM	#18
armedleo Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2015 Posts: 265	I'm with turtlehead. From now on when I get home I'm leaving my loaded pistol (one chambered, of course) on the kitchen counter next to my car keys and steak knives.

July 27, 2016, 12:48 PM	#19
turtlehead Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2015 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,203	That's the spirit.

July 27, 2016, 12:50 PM	#20
kmw1954 Senior Member Join Date: June 11, 2016 Location: SE Wisconsin Posts: 1,524	One more regulation to protect us from ourselves? Nanny, Nanny, Nanny! How many more laws and regulations do we need before more than 50% of the population becomes convicted felons and can no longer own firearms because we need to be protected from ourselves? The human race is a dangerous place to live. As a child I grew up on a farm, very dangerous place, with lots of machinery that could maim or kill you. I was taught to respect that machinery. Maybe we need more education on respecting firearms! Not more regulation. After all we are supposed to be the most intelligent species on the planet.

July 27, 2016, 01:01 PM	#21
armedleo Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2015 Posts: 265	I read that about being the most intelligent... When I was a mere lad my father would always say about Americans that "We're the stupidest smart people on earth." I never really understood what he meant. I do now.

July 27, 2016, 02:37 PM	#25
Bartholomew Roberts member Join Date: June 12, 2000 Location: Texas and Oklahoma area Posts: 8,462	I may have missed it being mentioned; but "The Trace" is owned by Bloomberg and its sole purpose is to propagandize for gun control. As for storage laws, I am all for responsibly storing firearms. However, I fail to see how storage laws are going to be effective that way. Is the guy who leaves his loaded pistol in a cigar box on the coffee table where his three-year old can reach it suddenly going to change his ways because it is now illegal to do that? Color me skeptical. Instead I expect the law to be used to make it more difficult for peaceable, responsible folk to own a firearm. Time and time again, we get these proposals for "reasonable" gun laws - like California's "safety certification" - which requires every different color of gun to be recertified and tested and carves out a special exemption for law enforcement to carry and use guns the state has deemed "unsafe" for citizens. So the first question to ask is "How is it going to be abused by anti gun fanatics?" - because it will be. Once you know the cost, you can ask yourself whether the benefit (in this case saving the children of whatever number of people don't care about children getting shot but respect storage laws) is worth it.